Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Steffan said:
I am becoming more and more certain that other States within the EU are also going to be returning increasingly right wing politicians charged with protecting the interests of their own electorate and not the collective wellbeng of an amorphous body like the EU.
Indeed, this is looking ever more likely, first Brexit now Trump, lunatics running the asylum is the new norm. Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
RYH64E said:
Steffan said:
I am becoming more and more certain that other States within the EU are also going to be returning increasingly right wing politicians charged with protecting the interests of their own electorate and not the collective wellbeng of an amorphous body like the EU.
Indeed, this is looking ever more likely, first Brexit now Trump, lunatics running the asylum is the new norm. Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
This has been a long time coming but the mood of the voters across the world has seriously altered. The grandiose schemes of politicians, the junkets and the stage strutting has ensured that these freeloaders are about to get their comuppence. I suggest the latest example in the EU propsing an emergency meeting of Foreign Ministers to discuss the election of Donald Trump underlines how self serving and out of touch the Foreign Ministers have become.
Undoubtedly the Trump success has capitalised upon the concern of the Amercan electrate for their future and their steadily declining earning abiliities in America. Exporting jobs wholesale to Mexico has enalbled the shifty businessmen concerned to make even bigger personal profits. But this cannot possibly be right for the American population
It was absolute stark madness for the Americans to allow such a devastating and debilitating destruction of their own abilities to create employment and earning opportunities. Detroit is a desperate wasteland becase of actions suh as these. That is why Trump won despite the appalling dishonest campaign in America by the Media to favour Clinton and support the Washington merry go round. The American people liked what thy saw in Trump and that was despite Trump sending less than a quarter of the amount spent by the Clinton campaign.
I think the change in political fortunes across the Western world has been caused by the deeply serious and growing concern right across the entire electorate thst these politicians have totally forgotten the electorate in their personal, gold digging, and aggrandisement in office. These clowns have totally forgotten that they are supposed to represent the electorate. In conseqence the electorate have had enough of being suckers for politicians to bleed them dry with their grandiose schemes.
As Boris Johnson suggested in declining his invitation by the EU to attend this nonsense, "the democratic process in America is not a matter for discussion within Europe. The decision of the American electorate is not our affair". Says it all really. Major changes are coming and that includes the future (?) of the EU. Interesting times, indeed
RYH64E said:
Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
I think the issue is that people are fed up of being treated like mushrooms by the Establishment however despite them feeding at the trough and getting fatter there are enough crumbs left to keep us well fed.The changes that are being voted in, may upset the applecart and will probably see everyone poorer.
V8RX7 said:
RYH64E said:
Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
I think the issue is that people are fed up of being treated like mushrooms by the Establishment however despite them feeding at the trough and getting fatter there are enough crumbs left to keep us well fed.The changes that are being voted in, may upset the applecart and will probably see everyone poorer.
V8RX7 said:
I think the issue is that people are fed up of being treated like mushrooms by the Establishment however despite them feeding at the trough and getting fatter there are enough crumbs left to keep us well fed.
The changes that are being voted in, may upset the applecart and will probably see everyone poorer.
So. Many. Metaphors.The changes that are being voted in, may upset the applecart and will probably see everyone poorer.
V8RX7 said:
I think the issue is that people are fed up of being treated like mushrooms by the Establishment.....
This video is (very) sweary and NSFW but sums things up for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKsIt has over 1M views on YouTube and a faintly ridiculous 53M on Facebook...
davepoth said:
V8RX7 said:
I think the issue is that people are fed up of being treated like mushrooms by the Establishment however despite them feeding at the trough and getting fatter there are enough crumbs left to keep us well fed.
The changes that are being voted in, may upset the applecart and will probably see everyone poorer.
So. Many. Metaphors.The changes that are being voted in, may upset the applecart and will probably see everyone poorer.
I'm hungry now.
RYH64E said:
Steffan said:
I am becoming more and more certain that other States within the EU are also going to be returning increasingly right wing politicians charged with protecting the interests of their own electorate and not the collective wellbeng of an amorphous body like the EU.
Indeed, this is looking ever more likely, first Brexit now Trump, lunatics running the asylum is the new norm. Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
People of all political hues voted Leave (OK, maybe less so SNP and LibDem
).IMO it's the branding of people as racists and taking the key issues for many/most Leavers out of context or way too literally that is giving this impression. It's not helpful nor healthy. Especially as it allows the true right wing fraternity to hijack them and legitimise some of the more extreme views.
Nationalism (which again I don't regard as "right" or "left" but it suffers the same as noted above) is already well on the rise in the major EU powers, and it has been for a while. It's only a matter of time before more call time on the EU project and hence the Euro. The leaders of it have never been honest enough in its objectives, clear enough in the benefits and costs and never won the hearts and minds IMO. It was destined to end badly from the outset.
RYH64E said:
I keep hearing about downtrodden people and the ruling elite but it isn't a system I recognise, plenty of people in the UK have started from the bottom, with nothing, and done very well for themselves. The opportunities are there for those who choose to take advantage of them.
Whilst it's entirely possible to get into the top 10% of wealth (circa £1M) or even top 1% (circa £3M)The Ruling Elite are a fairly stable group which generally you are born into.
Edited by V8RX7 on Saturday 12th November 23:33
V8RX7 said:
RYH64E said:
I keep hearing about downtrodden people and the ruling elite but it isn't a system I recognise, plenty of people in the UK have started from the bottom, with nothing, and done very well for themselves. The opportunities are there for those who choose to take advantage of them.
Whilst it's entirely possible to get into the top 10% of wealth.The 1% is a fairly stable group which generally you are born into.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/r...
Entry level for this group is £200m plus and they are moving ever further away from the rest of the world.
However, it is perfectly possible to be born to a poor working class family and make it into the top 1% of UK incomes.
Elysium said:
The top 1% have more wealth that the other 99% combined:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/r...
Entry level for this group is £200m plus and they are moving ever further away from the rest of the world.
However, it is perfectly possible to be born to a poor working class family and make it into the top 1% of UK incomes.
You got in before the edit !https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/r...
Entry level for this group is £200m plus and they are moving ever further away from the rest of the world.
However, it is perfectly possible to be born to a poor working class family and make it into the top 1% of UK incomes.
I'd mis-remembered the uk v world figures.
£3M is a lot easier to make than £200M !
Murph7355 said:
RYH64E said:
Steffan said:
I am becoming more and more certain that other States within the EU are also going to be returning increasingly right wing politicians charged with protecting the interests of their own electorate and not the collective wellbeng of an amorphous body like the EU.
Indeed, this is looking ever more likely, first Brexit now Trump, lunatics running the asylum is the new norm. Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
People of all political hues voted Leave (OK, maybe less so SNP and LibDem
).IMO it's the branding of people as racists and taking the key issues for many/most Leavers out of context or way too literally that is giving this impression. It's not helpful nor healthy. Especially as it allows the true right wing fraternity to hijack them and legitimise some of the more extreme views.
Nationalism (which again I don't regard as "right" or "left" but it suffers the same as noted above) is already well on the rise in the major EU powers, and it has been for a while. It's only a matter of time before more call time on the EU project and hence the Euro. The leaders of it have never been honest enough in its objectives, clear enough in the benefits and costs and never won the hearts and minds IMO. It was destined to end badly from the outset.
Ponzi schemes always come unstuck becase the constant filching from the incoming funding eventually causes terminal decline. Some as we have seen do last for decades and cause huge financial ripples as the reality, of the losses that have to be absorbed by the innocent investors, causes serious concerns about the safety of investments.
To my mind, I regret to say the "Solution" provided by te EU in its desperate attempt to prevent the failing Soereign states locked within the Euro has become a Ponzi scheme, becase the "Debts" being incurred by the failing states being invisibly being bailed out by QE Euro printing, are in fact not recoverable debts. The constant cutbacks and reduction within these failing economes forced upon these failing states has caused, immense misery within the populations of these states, sadly ensuring a steady decline in the economies of these states and not the slightest possibility that there is any growth within these economies and absolutely no possibility of any of the burrowed money therefore, ever beng repaid to the EU.
These debts will fall back upon the lenders, who are all within the EU, because there is absolutely no possibility of Greece, (just as an example) to ever be able to survive without subsidy and remain within the EU. It is total fantasy land and the dream is about to be permanently shattered. As Murphy7355 suggests the EU are actually indulging in dishonesty. I find the readiness of some interested commentators to cheerfully ignore such crooked dishonesty, and blythly suggest that the EU is too big to fail, (Where have I heard that before) and will simply carry on regardless, totally mystifying....???
The first country leaving the EU has already declared its intentions. A President elect, in the most powerful Western country in the world, has already junked the much vaulted EU/USA trade agreement and the current President has now instructed all work on that Obama dream ends now, IMO quite correctly. The politcal game is changing dramatcally, and in election after election across the wrkd, npolitics is being shown to be totally out of touch with the wishes, hopes and aspirations of their electors. That is not at all good for aspirational politicans!
The EU is having yet another special expensive junket for their Foreign Secretaries (Boris is staying well away!), to consider the dreadful news that the USA has elected Trump. Any excuse for a free feast and another week on expenses. (Please!!)
Times are changing very very rapidly, politically all over the western world. The EU is not going to manage this mess and it is going to fall apart. Ponzi schemes always do. Matter of time: my only hope is that we get out before. the crunch comes. That is why I am so concerned that the UK gets out of the EU before we end up paying very heavily for this mess!
Anyone been paying attention to Austria lately? A party formed by ex SS officers is about to take power.
While I think it's more to do with societal issues and left leaning groupthink as well as the shift from left to right as a result of the shutdown of discussion and debate by our "liberal" friends, it doesn't bode terribly well for the bloc as a whole.
Geert Wilders looking pretty in the Netherlands as well.
While I think it's more to do with societal issues and left leaning groupthink as well as the shift from left to right as a result of the shutdown of discussion and debate by our "liberal" friends, it doesn't bode terribly well for the bloc as a whole.
Geert Wilders looking pretty in the Netherlands as well.
Edited by Art0ir on Sunday 13th November 02:03
RYH64E said:
Indeed, this is looking ever more likely, first Brexit now Trump, lunatics running the asylum is the new norm.
Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
On a positive note; the UK leaving the EU means that every remaining EU member now either uses, is compelled to use, or pegs their currency to the Euro. The EU can now be the political union the currency union needs it to be. Hello Northern Europe, your fiscal transfers to the Med are overdue. Short-term chaos for long-term stability.Whilst I am somewhat to the right of the political spectrum myself I can't see the ensuing chaos being good for anybody, stability is good imo.
V8RX7 said:
RYH64E said:
I keep hearing about downtrodden people and the ruling elite but it isn't a system I recognise, plenty of people in the UK have started from the bottom, with nothing, and done very well for themselves. The opportunities are there for those who choose to take advantage of them.
Whilst it's entirely possible to get into the top 10% of wealth (circa £1M) or even top 1% (circa £3M)The Ruling Elite are a fairly stable group which generally you are born into.
Edited by V8RX7 on Saturday 12th November 23:33
RYH64E said:
A quick Google search would suggest that in 2015 there were 1826 billionaires in the world, of whom 1191 were self made, that's 65%. I just don't see these barriers that people complain about.
So how many of them were already well-off when they were born? They may not have been billionaires but if they had $100m to start with it's a bit easier to get going from there. BIANCO said:
1826 you do know that there are 7.4 billion people in the world? Not exactly good odds. I bet you think doing the lottery is a good financial investment.
Never bought a lottery ticket, not even one. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, maybe you think we should all be billionaires? My point is that it isn't the system that prevents people becoming millionaires or even billionaires, in the UK at least, the opportunities are there for all of us.
Maybe it's just the circles I move in, but all of the wealthy people I know have made their own money.
V8RX7 said:
The Ruling Elite are a fairly stable group which generally you are born into.
I'd argue that's too narrow. The elite that is being rejected by voters is far wider than that, and it's not purely wealth. It includes head teachers earning six-figure salaries, quango bosses telling people what not to think, union leaders paid far in excess of their members, magistrates who seem lenient on career criminals, failed senior social workers who have jobs created for them instead of being sacked, lawyers who operate as local cartels to skim huge amounts of wealth from divorces, BBC employees who run themselves as limited companies, etc. Plus the more obvious unacountable bureaucrats and teflon-coated politicians.All of these professional classes have done pretty well from the last 20-25 years, while the vast majority of people, for whom it's PAYE instead of PALAYCGAW, haven't seen much more than the growth in house prices (almost impossible to use, assuming they even own their own home).
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