Give us a fracking break!

[Oakey]

FredClogs said:

Yeah well Blackpool proper is a bit vacant of well considered opinion at the best of times, isn't it? And people in central Blackpool won't be massively effected - but I think if you asked most of the people down the length of the A583 and M55 to Kirkham and surrounding villages, the people who would really be effected then I'd bet the vast majority would prefer the fracking at Roseacre and Little Plumpton didn't go ahead, you can call it Nimbyism and that's probably what it is, but that's fair enough isn't it? Not to mention the well intention-ed do gooders of Lytham and the swamp donkeys over Wyre (who are well versed in this kind of debacle due to the Halite Gas storage row and subsequent corruption too) in the other direction. (We read the Garstang Courier or Evening Post, don't you know?)

The LEP page doesn't even have any comments! Not that it matters, LEP, BG, etc all seem to amalgamate into one another (I think the comments on the actual websites are cross posted too).

To be fair, those same people you refer to also object to wind turbines and solar farms!

Besides which, shouldn't you be worrying about being microwaved by GCHQ's HAARP signals to Nightjar?

[FredClogs]

Oakey said:

The LEP page doesn't even have any comments! Not that it matters, LEP, BG, etc all seem to amalgamate into one another (I think the comments on the actual websites are cross posted too).

To be fair, those same people you refer to also object to wind turbines and solar farms!

Besides which, shouldn't you be worrying about being microwaved by GCHQ's HAARP signals to Nightjar?

I don't worry about it... But in the 10 years I've live close by 2 of my immediate neighbours have died of sudden brain tumors in their late 50s... ;o/ I hear from people (outside the area) that are ex-Navy that it's all very safe and nothing to worry about.

And almost no one knows what goes on at the Westinghouse facility in Salwick, but we do make an effort to visit their top rated playground so the kids can swing free and stay warm!

[AdeTuono]

Mr Whippy said:

AdeTuono said:

Mr Whippy said:

I hope it all goes terribly wrong. Lorries crashing off roads, destroying verges and narrow street pavements in small villages. Minor tremors all over causing building damages.

Just general bad things to do with fracking from start to finish.

Then hopefully we can get on to making energy in smarter ways rather than burning gas.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Oh, grow up will you? Of course there's profit in it. Why do you work? (assuming you do; on evidence, I wouldn't employ you.) How long would your company continue to employ you if they were working at a loss?

I've got the benefit of 35+ years working in oil & gas. I've been involved with fracking countless times in the past. GT03Rob posted about sitting on the beach at Studland earlier. There are over 100 operating wells within a stone's throw of there, but no-one would ever know. I guarantee you could pass within 50 metres of an operating wellsite and you'd be none the wiser. Instead, you spout complete bks. Unless by your 'smarter' ways to 'make' energy you have come up with some miraculous business model where everything is all done at cost. Good luck with that.

Does beg the question though; why are you on PH? Is this your preferred method of transport?

[Oakey]

FredClogs said:

I don't worry about it... But in the 10 years I've live close by 2 of my immediate neighbours have died of sudden brain tumors in their late 50s... ;o/ I hear from people (outside the area) that are ex-Navy that it's all very safe and nothing to worry about.

And almost no one knows what goes on at the Westinghouse facility in Salwick, but we do make an effort to visit their top rated playground so the kids can swing free and stay warm!

I do find it amusing the anti-frackers go on about contamination to the water table whilst Springfields has actually pumped god knows what into the Ribble!

[Mr Whippy]

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Anything in this country revolves around profit. Renewable energy is not so why even bother making it work. Lets just destroy the world making profit. One thing to remember is, you cant eat money once the ground you relied on so much is contaminated.

Oh grow up.
People do make profit from renewables and profits are a good thing, if nobody made a profit there would be no jobs, schools hospitals or even internet for you to spout rubbish on.
Fracking is virtually no different than any other oil and gas extraction, are you proposing that we stop using oil and gas? How are you going to fuel your car, cook your food or heat your house? We are not even close to the point where renewables can replace oil and gas as our primary energy source.

We're not even close to replacing gas and oil because we continue to let things like this happen.

How much profit is enough?

We'll perpetually be in this situation if we just choose no long-term investment and not ring-fencing the profits of using up our natural resources.


The money for a long-term sustainable strategy has to come from somewhere, and fracking would be the perfect time to start.

If private business don't want to invest in that because the margins are not high enough, the government should do it itself completely.


No private investors in it to be vampires.

I'm all for capitalism, but I'm not for cronyism.

[Composite Guru]

Mr Whippy said:

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Anything in this country revolves around profit. Renewable energy is not so why even bother making it work. Lets just destroy the world making profit. One thing to remember is, you cant eat money once the ground you relied on so much is contaminated.

Oh grow up.
People do make profit from renewables and profits are a good thing, if nobody made a profit there would be no jobs, schools hospitals or even internet for you to spout rubbish on.
Fracking is virtually no different than any other oil and gas extraction, are you proposing that we stop using oil and gas? How are you going to fuel your car, cook your food or heat your house? We are not even close to the point where renewables can replace oil and gas as our primary energy source.

We're not even close to replacing gas and oil because we continue to let things like this happen.

How much profit is enough?

We'll perpetually be in this situation if we just choose no long-term investment and not ring-fencing the profits of using up our natural resources.


The money for a long-term sustainable strategy has to come from somewhere, and fracking would be the perfect time to start.

If private business don't want to invest in that because the margins are not high enough, the government should do it itself completely.


No private investors in it to be vampires.

I'm all for capitalism, but I'm not for cronyism.

Exactly!!

[Pooh]

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Anything in this country revolves around profit. Renewable energy is not so why even bother making it work. Lets just destroy the world making profit. One thing to remember is, you cant eat money once the ground you relied on so much is contaminated.

Oh grow up.
People do make profit from renewables and profits are a good thing, if nobody made a profit there would be no jobs, schools hospitals or even internet for you to spout rubbish on.
Fracking is virtually no different than any other oil and gas extraction, are you proposing that we stop using oil and gas? How are you going to fuel your car, cook your food or heat your house? We are not even close to the point where renewables can replace oil and gas as our primary energy source.

We're not even close to replacing gas and oil because we continue to let things like this happen.

How much profit is enough?

We'll perpetually be in this situation if we just choose no long-term investment and not ring-fencing the profits of using up our natural resources.


The money for a long-term sustainable strategy has to come from somewhere, and fracking would be the perfect time to start.

If private business don't want to invest in that because the margins are not high enough, the government should do it itself completely.


No private investors in it to be vampires.

I'm all for capitalism, but I'm not for cronyism.

Exactly!!

Except that it is utter rubbish.
We are investing massively in renewables but there are limits in what can be done, wind does not blow all the time and we need conventional power stations as backup and to provide the core generation. Tidal is better because it is predictable but has significant environmental issues, solar is probably the best particularly when done locally to the user but none of this can provide the energy we need now. We are highly dependant on imported gas, coal is very bad environmentally, fracking will help us reduce this as offshore gas production reduces and help keep the lights on.
It is not a choice of oil and gas or renewables, we have to pursue both if we are to have a secure energy supply.

[FredClogs]

Oakey said:

FredClogs said:

I don't worry about it... But in the 10 years I've live close by 2 of my immediate neighbours have died of sudden brain tumors in their late 50s... ;o/ I hear from people (outside the area) that are ex-Navy that it's all very safe and nothing to worry about.

And almost no one knows what goes on at the Westinghouse facility in Salwick, but we do make an effort to visit their top rated playground so the kids can swing free and stay warm!

I do find it amusing the anti-frackers go on about contamination to the water table whilst Springfields has actually pumped god knows what into the Ribble!

Before I lived where I do we had a house a few hundred metres from the fences of the AWE in Aldermaston Hampshire, due to my unwillingness to pay too much for housing I have sort of become a reverse Nimby, so I can't really complain too much about the risks I just hate the corruption of the democratic process. But if I don't make it to 60 folks will know why the housing was cheaper in these areas ;o)

[AdeTuono]

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Anything in this country revolves around profit. Renewable energy is not so why even bother making it work. Lets just destroy the world making profit. One thing to remember is, you cant eat money once the ground you relied on so much is contaminated.

Oh grow up.
People do make profit from renewables and profits are a good thing, if nobody made a profit there would be no jobs, schools hospitals or even internet for you to spout rubbish on.
Fracking is virtually no different than any other oil and gas extraction, are you proposing that we stop using oil and gas? How are you going to fuel your car, cook your food or heat your house? We are not even close to the point where renewables can replace oil and gas as our primary energy source.

We're not even close to replacing gas and oil because we continue to let things like this happen.

How much profit is enough?

We'll perpetually be in this situation if we just choose no long-term investment and not ring-fencing the profits of using up our natural resources.


The money for a long-term sustainable strategy has to come from somewhere, and fracking would be the perfect time to start.

If private business don't want to invest in that because the margins are not high enough, the government should do it itself completely.


No private investors in it to be vampires.

I'm all for capitalism, but I'm not for cronyism.

Exactly!!

Except that it is utter rubbish.
We are investing massively in renewables but there are limits in what can be done, wind does not blow all the time and we need conventional power stations as backup and to provide the core generation. Tidal is better because it is predictable but has significant environmental issues, solar is probably the best particularly when done locally to the user but none of this can provide the energy we need now. We are highly dependant on imported gas, coal is very bad environmentally, fracking will help us reduce this as offshore gas production reduces and help keep the lights on.
It is not a choice of oil and gas or renewables, we have to pursue both if we are to have a secure energy supply.

Or we could concentrate on nuclear, but imagine what the anti-frackers would have to say about that!

[rolando]

AdeTuono said:

Or we could concentrate on nuclear, but imagine what the anti-frackers would have to say about that!

The anti-nuclear and anti-fracking brigade are all tarred with the same brush — they're against anything that works but quite content to drive around in their cars or on public transport and to have centrally heated homes. All I can say to them is "on your bike" or "walk".

[Pan Pan Pan]

How about the energy companies involved, getting the names and addresses of all the protestors, and then cutting off their gas and electricity, so they can see what it will be like when the lights, business and industry go out in the UK? That seems to be what they want after all?

[AdeTuono]

rolando said:

AdeTuono said:

Or we could concentrate on nuclear, but imagine what the anti-frackers would have to say about that!

The anti-nuclear and anti-fracking brigade are all tarred with the same brush — they're against anything that works but quite content to drive around in their cars or on public transport and to have centrally heated homes. All I can say to them is "on your bike" or "walk".

Was quite ironic a couple of years ago; a news reporter was interviewing some brain-dead protester at a fracking site. They sent out a plea for some camping gas as they had no means to cook.

I'd have let the fker starve...

[Mr Whippy]

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Anything in this country revolves around profit. Renewable energy is not so why even bother making it work. Lets just destroy the world making profit. One thing to remember is, you cant eat money once the ground you relied on so much is contaminated.

Oh grow up.
People do make profit from renewables and profits are a good thing, if nobody made a profit there would be no jobs, schools hospitals or even internet for you to spout rubbish on.
Fracking is virtually no different than any other oil and gas extraction, are you proposing that we stop using oil and gas? How are you going to fuel your car, cook your food or heat your house? We are not even close to the point where renewables can replace oil and gas as our primary energy source.

We're not even close to replacing gas and oil because we continue to let things like this happen.

How much profit is enough?

We'll perpetually be in this situation if we just choose no long-term investment and not ring-fencing the profits of using up our natural resources.


The money for a long-term sustainable strategy has to come from somewhere, and fracking would be the perfect time to start.

If private business don't want to invest in that because the margins are not high enough, the government should do it itself completely.


No private investors in it to be vampires.

I'm all for capitalism, but I'm not for cronyism.

Exactly!!

Except that it is utter rubbish.
We are investing massively in renewables but there are limits in what can be done, wind does not blow all the time and we need conventional power stations as backup and to provide the core generation. Tidal is better because it is predictable but has significant environmental issues, solar is probably the best particularly when done locally to the user but none of this can provide the energy we need now. We are highly dependant on imported gas, coal is very bad environmentally, fracking will help us reduce this as offshore gas production reduces and help keep the lights on.
It is not a choice of oil and gas or renewables, we have to pursue both if we are to have a secure energy supply.

What are you talking about?

Wind, tidal and solar are all 'green' elements of a government policy they've made up themselves. THAT is part of the failure and stupidity we're talking about.


Simply put, fracking will generate huge profits for a few businesses. None of the wealth potential from the extraction of this resource will go towards investing in our long term engergy infrastructure.
That alone is pretty terrible long-term strategy for our government. It's cronyism.


The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

[Pooh]

Mr Whippy said:

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

Pooh said:

Composite Guru said:

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Anything in this country revolves around profit. Renewable energy is not so why even bother making it work. Lets just destroy the world making profit. One thing to remember is, you cant eat money once the ground you relied on so much is contaminated.

Oh grow up.
People do make profit from renewables and profits are a good thing, if nobody made a profit there would be no jobs, schools hospitals or even internet for you to spout rubbish on.
Fracking is virtually no different than any other oil and gas extraction, are you proposing that we stop using oil and gas? How are you going to fuel your car, cook your food or heat your house? We are not even close to the point where renewables can replace oil and gas as our primary energy source.

We're not even close to replacing gas and oil because we continue to let things like this happen.

How much profit is enough?

We'll perpetually be in this situation if we just choose no long-term investment and not ring-fencing the profits of using up our natural resources.


The money for a long-term sustainable strategy has to come from somewhere, and fracking would be the perfect time to start.

If private business don't want to invest in that because the margins are not high enough, the government should do it itself completely.


No private investors in it to be vampires.

I'm all for capitalism, but I'm not for cronyism.

Exactly!!

Except that it is utter rubbish.
We are investing massively in renewables but there are limits in what can be done, wind does not blow all the time and we need conventional power stations as backup and to provide the core generation. Tidal is better because it is predictable but has significant environmental issues, solar is probably the best particularly when done locally to the user but none of this can provide the energy we need now. We are highly dependant on imported gas, coal is very bad environmentally, fracking will help us reduce this as offshore gas production reduces and help keep the lights on.
It is not a choice of oil and gas or renewables, we have to pursue both if we are to have a secure energy supply.

What are you talking about?

Wind, tidal and solar are all 'green' elements of a government policy they've made up themselves. THAT is part of the failure and stupidity we're talking about.


Simply put, fracking will generate huge profits for a few businesses. None of the wealth potential from the extraction of this resource will go towards investing in our long term engergy infrastructure.
That alone is pretty terrible long-term strategy for our government. It's cronyism.


The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

OK I give up, I have better things to do than argue with an idiot on the internet so I will leave you to your paranoid little world of ignorance.

[HD Adam]

Mr Whippy said:

What are you talking about?

Wind, tidal and solar are all 'green' elements of a government policy they've made up themselves. THAT is part of the failure and stupidity we're talking about.


Simply put, fracking will generate huge profits for a few businesses. None of the wealth potential from the extraction of this resource will go towards investing in our long term engergy infrastructure.
That alone is pretty terrible long-term strategy for our government. It's cronyism.


The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

The Govt is in no position to do it themselves unless they buy up a bunch of companies and turn it into Britoil again as a nationalised company.

Sure, companies will make a profit but there's nothing stopping the Govt. from ring fencing the taxes on oil & gas produced from fracking to invest in renewables or Thorium reactors.

Alternately, they could just spunk it up the wall as normal.

Which one do you think will happen?

[GT03ROB]

Mr Whippy said:

The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

[Mr Whippy]

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.


Yes my 'plan' expects that government are just a complete shower of self-serving cronies.

I'm not sure why holding our elected representatives to a higher level of responsibility for our energy needs is fantasy. It's what they're employed to do afterall. This is a key part of why a government exists, to do things individual businesses can't do effectively for the benefit of society as a whole.

[FredClogs]

GT03ROB said:

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

Governments are just collections of people, Corporate businesses are just collections of people, it's just about having the right people in the right jobs.

Across the spectrum from oligarchies in places like Russia to corrupt state business to Enron style nonsense there are failures and successes across infrastructure investment projects on all sides of economic theory.

The only that is certain is if st goes wrong it's the tax payer who picks up the bill and as a tax payer you've more chance of making your feelings felt in a democracy than a market like gas supply.

[GT03ROB]

Mr Whippy said:

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.

Not really sure now if you are being serious or just on a wind up...... .... but I'll bite a bit more

..... and drilling technology?......

[Mr Whippy]

Pan Pan Pan said:

How about the energy companies involved, getting the names and addresses of all the protestors, and then cutting off their gas and electricity, so they can see what it will be like when the lights, business and industry go out in the UK? That seems to be what they want after all?

How about the government just do their jobs, because that's the only problem here.


Fracking should be the excuse, and the source of wealth, to fix our long term energy issues.


But as usual the greedy few are shafting everyone else for their money. Which is exactly why I hope it all goes wrong, so the public will finally wake up to the shafting they're taking and realise they're all been taken for mugs!