Give us a fracking break!

[s2art]

Mr Whippy said:

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.

Which is what Labour tried in the 60's and 70's (and earlier when it nationalised loads of industries). It was a disaster economically, mainly because decisions were based on politics rather than what would actually work.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes is insane or very stupid.

[Mr Whippy]

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.

So tell me again why private business should reap all the profit from a national resource and the government let them?

Personally I don't give two sts about all the risks and environment. I'm more concerned that government seem to be selling out our natural resources to private business and asking for sod all back as recompense.

Dave

[FredClogs]

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.

Not really sure now if you are being serious or just on a wind up...... .... but I'll bite a bit more

..... and drilling technology?......

You don't think that the government could employ a drill engineer?

The Chinese state are building our next generation of nuclear power plants but the party politicos and their version of Alistair Campbell won't be working their, you do understand that, don't you? The French government have been building and selling power plants for donkeys years and our government is the countries largest single employer (via the NHS).

Like I said it's all about having the right people in the right places.

[Oakey]

Well we used to own Westinghouse but somebody thought it'd be smart to sell that

[s2art]

FredClogs said:

You don't think that the government could employ a drill engineer?

The Chinese state are building our next generation of nuclear power plants but the party politicos and their version of Alistair Campbell won't be working their, you do understand that, don't you? The French government have been building and selling power plants for donkeys years and our government is the countries largest single employer (via the NHS).

Like I said it's all about having the right people in the right places.

I am sure the government could employ a drill engineer. But creating a drilling company in competition against other drilling companies would fall foul of EU competition law. So the first thing you would need to do is leave the EU.

[Jockman]

Let a private company do it and tax the foook out of it.

[GT03ROB]

FredClogs said:

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

The government should do it themselves (no farming out to businesses) and put all the proceeds towards Thorium R&D/development or something like that. Something that means in 25 years time we can just have essentially 'free' UK energy, bought and paid for and maintained by the government, from the resources of the UK.

There are times when capitalism needs government to help it along. Doing things like the above helps us along.

Letting business just be a vampire on our natural resources and ignoring our future is crony capitalism.

Pray tell how the government does it itself without farming it out to business? Which civil servant or department has the experience & knowledge to do the work?

What precisely have successive governments done with the billions in PRT, yep thats right, wasted not invested.

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.

Not really sure now if you are being serious or just on a wind up...... .... but I'll bite a bit more

..... and drilling technology?......

You don't think that the government could employ a drill engineer?

The Chinese state are building our next generation of nuclear power plants but the party politicos and their version of Alistair Campbell won't be working their, you do understand that, don't you? The French government have been building and selling power plants for donkeys years and our government is the countries largest single employer (via the NHS).

Like I said it's all about having the right people in the right places.

No I didn;t know that.......:roll eyes:

But then I'd be surprised by the fact that even the biggest NOCs remain heavily dependent on the IOCs & service companies.

It's a lot more than having the right people in the right places.

[V8 Fettler]

Fracking in Yaaarkshire is a great opportunity for Yorkshire First.

[GT03ROB]

Jockman said:

Let a private company do it and tax the foook out of it.

...and herein lies one of the solutions. Nobody is arguing the country should not benefit from fracking. There are numerous models in the oil/gas industry where states employ the private sector to exploit the resources & provide a return to the state. Taxation is one solution.

[hidetheelephants]

Mr Whippy said:

You're an idiot for thinking this is anything but a money grab for short-sighted profiteers while the country's real energy infrastructure needs go ignored.

Unless you have a vested interest in which case fair enough. It's at least nice to know you're either terminally stupid or a sellout.

Damn right, for 15 years this country's energy needs have been sold down the river for the short term gain of landowners and the builders and erectors of whirligigs; collectively £100bn has been hosed into subsidy farming and the net output is ~4GW of intermittent power that needs spinning back-up. That the banks have underwritten this farrago should underline how gigantically profitable this subsidy farming is. If I'm going to have my wallet emptied for the benefit of multinational corporations I'd rather it was going to subsidise nuclear power as that might keep the lights on and the economy going.

The same applies with fracking; it's not a question of doing without gas, the UK will be burning gas for cooking, heating and using it as a feedstock for industry for decades. The decision is whether we produce it here, retain the revenue and some high value jobs domestically, ensure the gas is produced with regard to preserving the environment and worker safety, or import it from somewhere where they really don't give a st about worker safety, the environment or even human rights like Kazakhstan or Qatar. The protestors aren't interested in reality, they're dupes and useful idiots.

[Scotty2]

Just heard another one sided rant on Radio 5 Live with some Councillor claiming that "The decision was undemocratic because 39 000 people objected and only 37 supported"

Well 39000 organised objectors have to give a valid reason to object, not just "I don't like it!"
3900 x firk all = Firk all.

Next Lie:
"This technology is new to Britain and untested" bks. Been going on for over 40 years.


Of course the BBC Interviewer picked up on these "facts" and gave a balanced retort - NOT.

The University Prof was supposed to give an opposing view but seems to have been BBC selected...

[Jockman]

GT03ROB said:

Jockman said:

Let a private company do it and tax the foook out of it.

...and herein lies one of the solutions. Nobody is arguing the country should not benefit from fracking. There are numerous models in the oil/gas industry where states employ the private sector to exploit the resources & provide a return to the state. Taxation is one solution.

Yup. A massive income stream to fund schools / hospitals etc with very little exposure to risk. Be cute and even impose vat on any duty. Allow the private company to make a profit and tax that too.

Seems to work with other resources.

[GT03ROB]

hidetheelephants said:

Damn right, for 15 years this country's energy needs have been sold down the river for the short term gain of landowners and the builders and erectors of whirligigs; collectively £100bn has been hosed into subsidy farming and the net output is ~4GW of intermittent power that needs spinning back-up. That the banks have underwritten this farrago should underline how gigantically profitable this subsidy farming is. If I'm going to have my wallet emptied for the benefit of multinational corporations I'd rather it was going to subsidise nuclear power as that might keep the lights on and the economy going.

The same applies with fracking; it's not a question of doing without gas, the UK will be burning gas for cooking, heating and using it as a feedstock for industry for decades. The decision is whether we produce it here, retain the revenue and some high value jobs domestically, ensure the gas is produced with regard to preserving the environment and worker safety, or import it from somewhere where they really don't give a st about worker safety, the environment or even human rights like Kazakhstan or Qatar. The protestors aren't interested in reality, they're dupes and useful idiots.

....and before anyone says I'm biased towards the oil industry, the company I work for has built whirliygig farms in the north sea, owns nuclear power technology & is will design/build one of the nuclear plants currently in development for the UK, So personally don't care which way we go!!

[hidetheelephants]

GT03ROB said:

....and before anyone says I'm biased towards the oil industry, the company I work for has built whirliygig farms in the north sea, owns nuclear power technology & is will design/build one of the nuclear plants currently in development for the UK, So personally don't care which way we go!!

Siemens? They certainly have lots of fingers in many pies.

[GT03ROB]

hidetheelephants said:

GT03ROB said:

....and before anyone says I'm biased towards the oil industry, the company I work for has built whirliygig farms in the north sea, owns nuclear power technology & is will design/build one of the nuclear plants currently in development for the UK, So personally don't care which way we go!!

Siemens? They certainly have lots of fingers in many pies.

Nope American & to complete the picture also have a major oilfield development in Kazakhstan!.

[jshell]

Can any of you anti-hydrocarbon numpties tell the rest of us where plastics, polymers, road surfaces, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, acids, aviation fuels, heavy fuel oils etc, etc, etc will come from if we don't produce oil?

[hidetheelephants]

jshell said:

Can any of you anti-hydrocarbon numpties tell the rest of us where plastics, polymers, road surfaces, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, acids, aviation fuels, heavy fuel oils etc, etc, etc will come from if we don't produce oil?

Pixies. They haven't a fking clue as the Greenpeas/FotE fracking pamphlet didn't cover these topics.

[ellroy]

As someone who lives in Ryedale I'm pleased to be part of the 37.

[turbobloke]

Scotty2 said:

Just heard another one sided rant on Radio 5 Live with some Councillor claiming that "The decision was undemocratic because 39 000 people objected and only 37 supported"

Well 39000 organised objectors have to give a valid reason to object, not just "I don't like it!"
3900 x firk all = Firk all.

Next Lie:
"This technology is new to Britain and untested" bks. Been going on for over 40 years.


Of course the BBC Interviewer picked up on these "facts" and gave a balanced retort - NOT.

The University Prof was supposed to give an opposing view but seems to have been BBC selected...

There are plenty of muppets around who think that a consultation process is a cross between a popularity contest and a vote.

They may be the same people who think the technology is new, untested, and swallow propaganda around quakes and kitchen taps turning into flamethrowers, so they're either extremely gullible or terminally stupid.

As to the description of BBC coverage, situation normal there.

[jshell]

hidetheelephants said:

jshell said:

Can any of you anti-hydrocarbon numpties tell the rest of us where plastics, polymers, road surfaces, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, acids, aviation fuels, heavy fuel oils etc, etc, etc will come from if we don't produce oil?

Pixies. They haven't a fking clue as the Greenpeas/FotE fracking pamphlet didn't cover these topics.

They're fecking idiots, aren't they?