Give us a fracking break!

[turbobloke]

jshell said:

hidetheelephants said:

jshell said:

Can any of you anti-hydrocarbon numpties tell the rest of us where plastics, polymers, road surfaces, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, acids, aviation fuels, heavy fuel oils etc, etc, etc will come from if we don't produce oil?

Pixies. They haven't a fking clue as the Greenpeas/FotE fracking pamphlet didn't cover these topics.

They're fecking idiots, aren't they?

Total fracking idiots surely

[HD Adam]

jshell said:

hidetheelephants said:

jshell said:

Can any of you anti-hydrocarbon numpties tell the rest of us where plastics, polymers, road surfaces, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, acids, aviation fuels, heavy fuel oils etc, etc, etc will come from if we don't produce oil?

Pixies. They haven't a fking clue as the Greenpeas/FotE fracking pamphlet didn't cover these topics.

They're fecking Fracking idiots, aren't they?

EFA

[jshell]

turbobloke said:

jshell said:

hidetheelephants said:

jshell said:

Can any of you anti-hydrocarbon numpties tell the rest of us where plastics, polymers, road surfaces, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, acids, aviation fuels, heavy fuel oils etc, etc, etc will come from if we don't produce oil?

Pixies. They haven't a fking clue as the Greenpeas/FotE fracking pamphlet didn't cover these topics.

They're fecking idiots, aren't they?

Total fracking idiots surely

However, I would keep shale gas as an ace up our National sleeve to be used in times of limited gas supplies...

[Mr GrimNasty]

For those who think CO2 is an issue, the USA is just about the only major country that IS reducing CO2 and projected to continue to do so, whilst enjoying reasonably affordable energy and not crippling it's own economy/industry. That's thanks to fracking gas replacing coal.

[Du1point8]

s2art said:

Mr Whippy said:

You can buy experience.

You create a department which then becomes experts on everything it needs to be experts on.

Which is what Labour tried in the 60's and 70's (and earlier when it nationalised loads of industries). It was a disaster economically, mainly because decisions were based on politics rather than what would actually work.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes is insane or very stupid.

Yup, they would rather let the infrastructure rot then spend money on it if they were going to be out of power in 6 months. Never for the good of the country, only for the good of the party involved, we can see this now with the amount of money the horrible privatised companies are having to invest to get the 60s/70s infrastructure back up to scratch.

[Mr Whippy]

Scotty2 said:

Just heard another one sided rant on Radio 5 Live with some Councillor claiming that "The decision was undemocratic because 39 000 people objected and only 37 supported"

If those 39,000 people live on top of the site, then that is fair enough in my view.

If you start to say they don't have 'valid' reasons, then who says what valid reasons are? Surely the council is there to represent the people who live there and the industries already there.

If they're all ignored, and their reasons deemed valid, then is that democracy?

It sounds more like corporate dictatorship to me.

[Oakey]

30+ years ago these people would probably have been screaming blue murder at the closure of coal mines by the then Thatcher government

[The Don of Croy]

If Vivienne Westwood and Emma Thompson greenlight it, I'm in.

Without these heavyweight scientific/intellectual backers any new tech is bound to fail.

[GT03ROB]

Mr Whippy said:

If those 39,000 people live on top of the site, then that is fair enough in my view.

If you start to say they don't have 'valid' reasons, then who says what valid reasons are? Surely the council is there to represent the people who live there and the industries already there.

If they're all ignored, and their reasons deemed valid, then is that democracy?

It sounds more like corporate dictatorship to me.

Unfortunately those 39,000 would also object to windymills, solar farms & nuclear stations. As with most things of this sort nimbyism will always be to the fore & sometimes decisions have to be made which are in the interests of the country as a whole at the expense of a single community. This is what government does.

[Scotty2]

Where is that picture I saw on another thread about crying whingeing Lefties? I feel this thread needs to see it.

[turbobloke]

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

If those 39,000 people live on top of the site, then that is fair enough in my view.

If you start to say they don't have 'valid' reasons, then who says what valid reasons are? Surely the council is there to represent the people who live there and the industries already there.

If they're all ignored, and their reasons deemed valid, then is that democracy?

It sounds more like corporate dictatorship to me.

Unfortunately those 39,000 would also object to windymills, solar farms & nuclear stations. As with most things of this sort nimbyism will always be to the fore & sometimes decisions have to be made which are in the interests of the country as a whole at the expense of a single community. This is what government does.

Exactly. At least, it's what a sensible government does!

As mentioned previously, a consultation process is not a vote, and the needs of the many outweigh any nimbyism of the few.

[Oakey]

People like to object to things, and cowardly councillors like to give in to them, case in point;

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/News/Dalton/Dalton-reside...

http://www.garstangcourier.co.uk/news/villagers-in...

https://stophoscarsolarfarm.com/

Edited by Oakey on Wednesday 25th May 10:01

[HD Adam]

Oakey said:

30+ years ago these people would probably have been screaming blue murder at the closure of coal mines by the then Thatcher government

It's an interesting point, isn't it?

It seems to be perfectly ok for some people to dig a giant hole in the ground and then dig a coal seam out from under it but not drill a small hole, case it off and extract a gas.

Where were the earthquakes? Where was the ruined drinking water? Where are the exploding kitchen taps? It's a very similar process.

Thatcher stole our jobs etc. What about the jobs this will create?

Fracking Idiots

[Mr Whippy]

GT03ROB said:

Mr Whippy said:

If those 39,000 people live on top of the site, then that is fair enough in my view.

If you start to say they don't have 'valid' reasons, then who says what valid reasons are? Surely the council is there to represent the people who live there and the industries already there.

If they're all ignored, and their reasons deemed valid, then is that democracy?

It sounds more like corporate dictatorship to me.

Unfortunately those 39,000 would also object to windymills, solar farms & nuclear stations. As with most things of this sort nimbyism will always be to the fore & sometimes decisions have to be made which are in the interests of the country as a whole at the expense of a single community. This is what government does.

And rightly so.

People have been short changed with THEIR environment for decades.

Government and business just throw peoples money around and achieve little except businesses making lots of money and boxes getting ticked.

The gas resource, a shared one owned by society, should be used to benefit society with a long-term energy plan and implementation that puts us in a strong position by 25 years time.


Blank sheet of paper, screw the vested interests of a few, focus on the vested interests of generations of millions of people in society who need energy.

Come up with a solution and use fracking to help pay for it all.


We could be, and should be, able to offer almost cost price energy at very low prices to everyone in the UK if we wanted.

The only reason we don't is government short-termism and cronyism.


Fracking is the perfect example of the intent. An opportunity to do good, but there is no mention of any good from the proceeds of it. That sums up the intention.

Smash and profit grab. And they can feck off if they think I'm supporting that.

Dave

[FredClogs]

Oakey said:

People like to object to things, and cowardly councillors like to give in to them, case in point;

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/News/Dalton/Dalton-reside...

http://www.garstangcourier.co.uk/news/villagers-in...

https://stophoscarsolarfarm.com/

Edited by Oakey on Wednesday 25th May 10:01

RWE pulled out of the cuckoo wood project for quite sensible reasons, I don't know if the campaign influenced that or not, I doubt it did, but given the flooding St Michaels had this winter it was probably I good decision.

You can't please all of the pensioners all of the time, as someone once said.

@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.

[The Don of Croy]

Mr Whippy said:

... We could be, and should be, able to offer almost cost price energy at very low prices to everyone in the UK if we wanted.

The only reason we don't is government short-termism and cronyism....

If you go back to the opening of Calder Hall I believe they said almost the same about Nuclear.

Didn't work out that way - perhaps once bitten, twice shy?

Do you agree with the profit motive in general, or would you prefer state ownership of the means of production, distribution and supply?

[Oakey]

FredClogs said:

@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.

The ones in 2011 attributed to fracking were a 1.5 and 2.3, we had a 5.2 in 2008 but no one harps on about that! There was a 2.4 and 3.2 in 2013 as well but the anti-frackers pretend those never happened because it doesn't fit their "there have been no earthquakes since Caudrilla stopped fracking" narrative

[jshell]

FredClogs said:

@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.

Can you explain how the collapse of a hole a few inches in diameter causes an earthquake?

[Mr Whippy]

The Don of Croy said:

Mr Whippy said:

... We could be, and should be, able to offer almost cost price energy at very low prices to everyone in the UK if we wanted.

The only reason we don't is government short-termism and cronyism....

If you go back to the opening of Calder Hall I believe they said almost the same about Nuclear.

Didn't work out that way - perhaps once bitten, twice shy?

Do you agree with the profit motive in general, or would you prefer state ownership of the means of production, distribution and supply?

I'd be more than happy for a business to be sat profiting handsomely while also providing a world-class energy supply chain.

Sadly government are incapable of finding the right balance, likely through incompetence and short-term outlooks, with cronyism thrown in for good measure.


If they can't do a good job on projects like long-term energy security and sustainability, the core feature of a governments existence, then I'll be damned if I'm going to support their best alternative, mediocrity and crony profiteering at the cost of the general population and their environment.

Dave

[HD Adam]

Oakey said:

FredClogs said:

@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.

The ones in 2011 attributed to fracking were a 1.5 and 2.3, we had a 5.2 in 2008 but no one harps on about that! There was a 2.4 and 3.2 in 2013 as well but the anti-frackers pretend those never happened because it doesn't fit their "there have been no earthquakes since Caudrilla stopped fracking" narrative

Exactly.

Go here to see the amount of earth tremors, earthquakes and their similar magnitudes over the last 50 days in the uk.

None of these caused by fracking.

http://earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_uk...

A 1.5 tremor is about the same as an HGV going past your house.