Give us a fracking break!
Discussion
jshell said:
FredClogs said:
@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.
Can you explain how the collapse of a hole a few inches in diameter causes an earthquake? The government report, there is loads of information out there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The earthquake did happen, it might not have been serious or that big but I don't see that as relevant, the well casing did fracture and collapse, there was a gas leak inside the well and the well has undergone several repairs and maintenance issues since the events in 2011. 5 years on and the well is still left abandoned and whilst it's not really an eyesore for many people it's still (and the Annas road sites) been abandoned by Cuadrilla who've been allowed to practically wash their hands of it on the promise it will one day be sorted.
FredClogs said:
jshell said:
FredClogs said:
@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.
Can you explain how the collapse of a hole a few inches in diameter causes an earthquake? The government report, there is loads of information out there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The earthquake did happen, it might not have been serious or that big but I don't see that as relevant, the well casing did fracture and collapse, there was a gas leak inside the well and the well has undergone several repairs and maintenance issues since the events in 2011. 5 years on and the well is still left abandoned and whilst it's not really an eyesore for many people it's still (and the Annas road sites) been abandoned by Cuadrilla who've been allowed to practically wash their hands of it on the promise it will one day be sorted.
Mr Whippy said:
FredClogs said:
jshell said:
FredClogs said:
@HDAdam the earthquake in the Blackpool area a few years ago was very real and the cause was definitively the failure and collapse of the Preese Hall test well - that much is fact.
Can you explain how the collapse of a hole a few inches in diameter causes an earthquake? The government report, there is loads of information out there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The earthquake did happen, it might not have been serious or that big but I don't see that as relevant, the well casing did fracture and collapse, there was a gas leak inside the well and the well has undergone several repairs and maintenance issues since the events in 2011. 5 years on and the well is still left abandoned and whilst it's not really an eyesore for many people it's still (and the Annas road sites) been abandoned by Cuadrilla who've been allowed to practically wash their hands of it on the promise it will one day be sorted.
Answers on a postcard to what would happen eventually if these existing pressure build-up zones were allowed to continue developing.
FredClogs said:
My statement was misleading, apologies, the earthquake was not a result of the well failing, but vice versa, the well collapsed because of the earthquake which was caused by the fracking....
The government report, there is loads of information out there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The earthquake did happen, it might not have been serious or that big but I don't see that as relevant, the well casing did fracture and collapse, there was a gas leak inside the well and the well has undergone several repairs and maintenance issues since the events in 2011. 5 years on and the well is still left abandoned and whilst it's not really an eyesore for many people it's still (and the Annas road sites) been abandoned by Cuadrilla who've been allowed to practically wash their hands of it on the promise it will one day be sorted.
Has it not been restored to it's original state now?The government report, there is loads of information out there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The earthquake did happen, it might not have been serious or that big but I don't see that as relevant, the well casing did fracture and collapse, there was a gas leak inside the well and the well has undergone several repairs and maintenance issues since the events in 2011. 5 years on and the well is still left abandoned and whilst it's not really an eyesore for many people it's still (and the Annas road sites) been abandoned by Cuadrilla who've been allowed to practically wash their hands of it on the promise it will one day be sorted.
Also, it's hardly an eyesore when compared to what's in the immediate vicinity:
You can really see the moronic level of the entire made up climate change debate when the same eco-mentalists against Fracking (who are actually against business, modern society, and humankind) call a tiny vibration an earthquake.
Rather than have a harmless fracking operation about the size of a car-park that the National Trust would create for visitors to a beauty spot, they would rather hundreds of beauty spots were desecrated with Solar and Wind Industrial Parks (the greens call them farms because they sound nicer) that are intermittent and non-dispatchabale i.e. uneconomically viable and worse than useless.
Rather than have a harmless fracking operation about the size of a car-park that the National Trust would create for visitors to a beauty spot, they would rather hundreds of beauty spots were desecrated with Solar and Wind Industrial Parks (the greens call them farms because they sound nicer) that are intermittent and non-dispatchabale i.e. uneconomically viable and worse than useless.
An example of the things we have to put up with...
I was involved in a drilling program in East Yorks around 2004. The "Circus" arrived ( large rig and associated support equipment). The rig was erected and had to go under various tests and safety inspections/modifications. The rig was then set to drill 8 wells.
We recieved a letter from one of the houses on the outskirts of the nearest village claiming damages. "The vibration and earth movements caused by your drilling operations have cracked our drive, the wall of our house and cracked a window frame. Please come and look and pay for repair e.t.c..."
We hadn't started drilling yet.
Chancers.
I was involved in a drilling program in East Yorks around 2004. The "Circus" arrived ( large rig and associated support equipment). The rig was erected and had to go under various tests and safety inspections/modifications. The rig was then set to drill 8 wells.
We recieved a letter from one of the houses on the outskirts of the nearest village claiming damages. "The vibration and earth movements caused by your drilling operations have cracked our drive, the wall of our house and cracked a window frame. Please come and look and pay for repair e.t.c..."
We hadn't started drilling yet.
Chancers.
Oakey said:
Has it not been restored to it's original state now?
Also, it's hardly an eyesore when compared to what's in the immediate vicinity:
The rig has gone but my understanding is that Cuadrilla are still dragging their feet over the planning issues surrounding the after care of the land, I might be misinformed.Also, it's hardly an eyesore when compared to what's in the immediate vicinity:
I agree it was never an eyesore for practically anyone, that's what I said.
HD Adam said:
Exactly.
Go here to see the amount of earth tremors, earthquakes and their similar magnitudes over the last 50 days in the uk.
None of these caused by fracking.
http://earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_uk...
A 1.5 tremor is about the same as an HGV going past your house.
2016/05/11 02:52:03.1 52.888 -3.859 12 0.1 TRAWSFYNYDD,GWYNEDD Go here to see the amount of earth tremors, earthquakes and their similar magnitudes over the last 50 days in the uk.
None of these caused by fracking.
http://earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_uk...
A 1.5 tremor is about the same as an HGV going past your house.
Hope the greens don't spot that one, they'll call it the Welsh Fukashima.
Assuming the Daily Mail don't run with it first.
The Daily Mail Could Say said:
A Fukashima style meltdown was narrowly averted at the Magnox nuclear plant in Wales following an earthquake at the site. A terrifying 0.1 magnitude tremor, 12km underground shook the Welsh nuclear facility located inside the Snowdonia National Park. A Greenpeace spokesman said yesterday, "This event just proves the dangers of nuclear energy and a massive catastrophe was narrowly averted. One of Britain's most beautiful national parks could have been ruined for ever and we'd lose a prime spot for building hundreds of wind turbines."
A spokesman for Magnox denied there was any danger stating, "What are you on about? Please go away."
A spokesman for Magnox denied there was any danger stating, "What are you on about? Please go away."
Scotty2 said:
An example of the things we have to put up with...
I was involved in a drilling program in East Yorks around 2004. The "Circus" arrived ( large rig and associated support equipment). The rig was erected and had to go under various tests and safety inspections/modifications. The rig was then set to drill 8 wells.
We recieved a letter from one of the houses on the outskirts of the nearest village claiming damages. "The vibration and earth movements caused by your drilling operations have cracked our drive, the wall of our house and cracked a window frame. Please come and look and pay for repair e.t.c..."
We hadn't started drilling yet.
Chancers.
We get that every time a piling rig is set up on one of our development sites. Very often the letters come before any piling operations have started.I was involved in a drilling program in East Yorks around 2004. The "Circus" arrived ( large rig and associated support equipment). The rig was erected and had to go under various tests and safety inspections/modifications. The rig was then set to drill 8 wells.
We recieved a letter from one of the houses on the outskirts of the nearest village claiming damages. "The vibration and earth movements caused by your drilling operations have cracked our drive, the wall of our house and cracked a window frame. Please come and look and pay for repair e.t.c..."
We hadn't started drilling yet.
Chancers.
Mind you, driven piles really p
s off the neighbours when we do startAs an example of how invisible oil/gas wells can be, this is a view of Furzey island in Poole Harbour.
This is what it looks like from the water.
Nothing permanent is allowed to be visible from the water and the only time you would see anything oil related is when they bring in a temporary tower to drill or work on a well.
I have worked on the island, I did an acid frack and it was a very nice place to work.
This is what it looks like from the water.
Nothing permanent is allowed to be visible from the water and the only time you would see anything oil related is when they bring in a temporary tower to drill or work on a well.
I have worked on the island, I did an acid frack and it was a very nice place to work.
Edited by Pooh on Wednesday 25th May 14:55
Mr GrimNasty said:
You can really see the moronic level of the entire made up climate change debate when the same eco-mentalists against Fracking (who are actually against business, modern society, and humankind) call a tiny vibration an earthquake.
Rather than have a harmless fracking operation about the size of a car-park that the National Trust would create for visitors to a beauty spot, they would rather hundreds of beauty spots were desecrated with Solar and Wind Industrial Parks (the greens call them farms because they sound nicer) that are intermittent and non-dispatchabale i.e. uneconomically viable and worse than useless.
Fracking only wins because the other two are sRather than have a harmless fracking operation about the size of a car-park that the National Trust would create for visitors to a beauty spot, they would rather hundreds of beauty spots were desecrated with Solar and Wind Industrial Parks (the greens call them farms because they sound nicer) that are intermittent and non-dispatchabale i.e. uneconomically viable and worse than useless.
t.That doesn't mean fracking is then good, it's just less s
t than the other two.At least in that image, fracking is great but it's not sustainable. Wind and solar will be viable in their footprint forever, while fracking won't.
As for better ideas.
How about moving all that solar to the roofs of new build housing stock? Suddenly the solar footprint is zero, and we already have to look at roofs on houses?
How about a long-term goal of reducing dependence on gas for stuff like domestic heating and cooking, reserve it for industrial uses where it's important, and make residential properties run on things like GSHP, ASHP, etc?
Yes fracking is the best of a load of s
t ideas. And I'm willing to run with that if we use it to support better ideas for a sustainable long term future.What happens in 50 years when the fracking gas has all gone, North Sea oil has all gone?
We either start getting off the fossil fuels now with a sustainable realistic plan (not poor implementations of renewables) and use fracking to subsidise it, or we gamble that something else cheap and easy will land on our lap in 25-50 years time.
That's completely lame if that's the best we can achieve.
FredClogs said:
A lot of these guys don't believe that CO2 is an issue, green house gas effect doesn't exist, climate change is all lies and that fossil fuels will last forever. It's just what they think and if you do think that then obviously renewable energy does seem a bit daft.
I'd go for sustainability over greeness.Fracking is no more sustainable than subsidised stupid wind turbines which need expensive gas backup.
FredClogs said:
A lot of these guys don't believe that CO2 is an issue, green house gas effect doesn't exist, climate change is all lies and that fossil fuels will last forever. It's just what they think and if you do think that then obviously renewable energy does seem a bit daft.
Wrong in every way about me, I fully support the move to renewable energy but we have to be realistic and in the short/medium term will will still require fossil fuels. Fracking could actually reduce our CO2 emissions as it has in the US, burning gas produces less CO2 per joule of energy than burning coal so if we could cut coal usage we would cut our CO2 emissions.If we want to maintain a developed western civilised society with hospitals and schools and universities - as well as factories and offices - we won't "move" to renewables as the EROEI is way too low. We need a blend, involving fossil fuels and nuclear, with a relatively minor role for wind and solar given the high cost, unreliability of supply, and the 'Catch 22' of storage. We don't actually 'need' wind and solar, it's only faith in climate fairytales that's propping up uneconomic and intermittent renewables.
Once more unto the reality breach:
Renewables Catch 22
http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/catch-22-of-...
Engineers - Renewable Energy ‘Simply won’t work’
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/22/shocker-top-...
If not yet read, do give them a shufti.
Once more unto the reality breach:
Renewables Catch 22
http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/catch-22-of-...
Engineers - Renewable Energy ‘Simply won’t work’
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/22/shocker-top-...
If not yet read, do give them a shufti.
Mr Whippy said:
Fracking only wins because the other two are st.
Agreed.t.Mr Whippy said:
That doesn't mean fracking is then good, it's just less st than the other two.
No human endeavor is without consequences, as risk/reward/cost/practicality/commercial viability goes, fracking/gas for energy is at the top of the pile.t than the other two.Mr Whippy said:
At least in that image, fracking is great but it's not sustainable.
There's several hundred years of fossil fuels left, we won't need them as viable alternatives will be found. Those alternatives don't exist (except nuclear), unless you want civilization to collapse, we are going to have to continue using fossil fuels for now. Mr Whippy said:
Wind and solar will be viable in their footprint forever, while fracking won't.
They are not commercially worthwhile, they cause widespread industrialistion of the countryside, massive toxic chemical wastelands, and through their life barely recover the energy required to make them, and they are intermittent and non-dispatchable so you require the fossil fuel infrastructure AS WELL, and they make the grid difficult to ballance and put up energy costs massively. So they are pointless. Wind turbines also cause substantial health problems through infrasound such that Germany/Poland etc. are banning them within ~2km of habitation now.German countryside before/after.
https://youtu.be/sDeyruhSWY4
Mr Whippy said:
As for better ideas.
How about moving all that solar to the roofs of new build housing stock? Suddenly the solar footprint is zero, and we already have to look at roofs on houses?
How about a long-term goal of reducing dependence on gas for stuff like domestic heating and cooking, reserve it for industrial uses where it's important, and make residential properties run on things like GSHP, ASHP, etc?
Solar runs at 8% of faceplate power in the UK (wind ~31%) and cannot power the country, as I said the panels barely recoup the energy to make them (EROEI is poor) and cause massive toxic pollution. The sun only shines at a certain low power, you cannot improve the panels, you just have to cover a massive area. No financial of practical sense in it. Solar PV in Europe is a "non-sustainable energy sink" to quote the latest thinking.How about moving all that solar to the roofs of new build housing stock? Suddenly the solar footprint is zero, and we already have to look at roofs on houses?
How about a long-term goal of reducing dependence on gas for stuff like domestic heating and cooking, reserve it for industrial uses where it's important, and make residential properties run on things like GSHP, ASHP, etc?
Heat pumps are ludicrously expensive/weak, again make no financial sense for household heating.
Mr Whippy said:
Yes fracking is the best of a load of st ideas. And I'm willing to run with that if we use it to support better ideas for a sustainable long term future.
What happens in 50 years when the fracking gas has all gone, North Sea oil has all gone?
We either start getting off the fossil fuels now with a sustainable realistic plan (not poor implementations of renewables) and use fracking to subsidise it, or we gamble that something else cheap and easy will land on our lap in 25-50 years time.
That's completely lame if that's the best we can achieve.
We've got to look for future energy sources, obviously, we don't have any answer yet, and fighting over fracking and implementing wind/solar is all just wasting/diverting time/attention/effort/resources.t ideas. And I'm willing to run with that if we use it to support better ideas for a sustainable long term future.What happens in 50 years when the fracking gas has all gone, North Sea oil has all gone?
We either start getting off the fossil fuels now with a sustainable realistic plan (not poor implementations of renewables) and use fracking to subsidise it, or we gamble that something else cheap and easy will land on our lap in 25-50 years time.
That's completely lame if that's the best we can achieve.
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