Give us a fracking break!

[Efbe]

genuine question: why do you all care about fracking so much? As in, why so Pro- fracking?

[turbobloke]

Efbe said:

genuine question: why do you all care about fracking so much? As in, why so Pro- fracking?

Are people keen on the lights going out?

Current UK energy security is dire and the sooner a reliable source comes on tap the better...wind is an expensive unreliable non-event.

It's not going to be instant by any means but getting through the initial stages as quickly as possible can only help including with Putin.

If the lights are at risk of going out, industrial users will be hit first and we hardly need that at the mo.

Then domestic consumers with a smart meter will learn what a smart idea it was to get one fitted.

[Mr GrimNasty]

turbobloke said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

"A three-year study [looking for fracking dangers] undertaken by the state-funded University of Cincinnati will not be released to the public, because it found no damage at all."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/04/public...

Outrageous, but sadly that's not untypical of the way science is suborned at the hands of wealthy environ mentalist type groups and individuals.

Since retracted another paper linking bad air quality to cancer or something because of 'bad data' or total incompetence!

http://energyindepth.org/ohio/uc-study-claiming-ai...

[Mr GrimNasty]

Efbe said:

genuine question: why do you all care about fracking so much? As in, why so Pro- fracking?

It's the only practical solution to affordable energy security.

Compared to other 'green' solutions (that don't deliver above) the impact on the countryside is microscopic.

It will also give the economy a boost.

[CoolHands]

Why don't we just buy st loads of gas from Europe & Russia?

Are you saying that this fracking will be substantially cheaper? What is the comparison (costs)?

Edit quick Google to see & Lord Browne says it won't affect the price of gas:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/2...

So why do it? North Sea oil & gas didn't make much difference did it? We just sold it into the world market. All the talk of the lights going off sounds like scaremongering. Why can't we use all of the North Sea oil & gas instead of fracking - They still contain over 22billion barrels.

Edited by CoolHands on Friday 5th August 00:11

[s2art]

CoolHands said:

Are you saying that this fracking will be substantially cheaper? What is the comparison (costs)?

Potentially. We dont know until they do some drilling and fracking. But relying on Russian gas is not smart.

[CoolHands]

s2art said:

Potentially. We dont know until they do some drilling and fracking. But relying on Russian gas is not smart.

In the past I might have thought that. But in recent years I've begun to see what a total sham the political system is that runs the west, and how completely untrustworthy it is. Using big bad Russia as the monster under the bed is just not credible any more. Our leaders give us just as much misinformation as I've no doubt Putin does to his people. Don't forget Russia need to sell natural resources to fund their economy, as they don't do much else, so they can't cut all their customers off or they're fked.

It would seem the only aim is to produce a good more cheaply, and to come up with any justification imaginable to substantiate that. The politicians support it, as they're all in the same boys club.

[s2art]

CoolHands said:

s2art said:

Potentially. We dont know until they do some drilling and fracking. But relying on Russian gas is not smart.

In the past I might have thought that. But in recent years I've begun to see what a total sham the political system is that runs the west, and how completely untrustworthy it is. Using big bad Russia as the monster under the bed is just not credible any more. Our leaders give us just as much misinformation as I've no doubt Putin does to his people. Don't forget Russia need to sell natural resources to fund their economy, as they don't do much else, so they can't cut all their customers off or they're fked.

It would seem the only aim is to produce a good more cheaply, and to come up with any justification imaginable to substantiate that. The politicians support it, as they're all in the same boys club.

Tell that to the Ukraine. What happens when China offers Russia a better deal on their gas? There is potential for gas shortages in Western Europe, having our own supply is very valuable.

[turbobloke]

CoolHands said:

Why don't we just buy st loads of gas from Europe & Russia?

Are you saying that this fracking will be substantially cheaper? What is the comparison (costs)?

Edit quick Google to see & Lord Browne says it won't affect the price of gas:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/2...

So why do it?

I don't take Lord Browne's word for the weather either.

[Pooh]

CoolHands said:

Why don't we just buy st loads of gas from Europe & Russia?

Are you saying that this fracking will be substantially cheaper? What is the comparison (costs)?

Edit quick Google to see & Lord Browne says it won't affect the price of gas:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/2...

So why do it? North Sea oil & gas didn't make much difference did it? We just sold it into the world market. All the talk of the lights going off sounds like scaremongering. Why can't we use all of the North Sea oil & gas instead of fracking - They still contain over 22billion barrels.

Edited by CoolHands on Friday 5th August 00:11

Producing gas from land wells is far cheaper than producing it in a hostile environment like the North Sea, many North Sea wells are fracked and have been for more than 30 years. Many North sea platforms are being decommissioned because they are not economical to run despite the fact that that they are still sitting on recoverable reserves. As an example I was on a major North Sea platform, the cost of production was 110 dollars per barrel but the oil price was 35 dollars per barrel, this is not sustainable for long.
Fracking on land is not particularly expensive, it is only a small part of the cost of drilling and completing the well, it has also been going on for years. I have personally performed acid and sand fracks in many locations on land, in the North Sea and other locations around the world over the last 27 years but I am now out of the industry and no longer involved.

[CoolHands]

But it (fracking supposedly being necessary) just blatantly doesn't make sense:

If the world cost is $40 or $50 a barrel so it's not viable to pump our own North Sea oil, then buy it in. The oversupply by Saudi Arabia etc is keeping the price low. Hence there is no supply problem (scary Russia might cut us off etc) as the low price is the direct result of that oversupply! The nations supplying it cannot stop as even at a low price they cannot afford to; their economies rely on it.

If the world price went back up to $100 a barrel or more due to opec restricting supply, then again our own North Sea oil becomes economically viable.

We cannot lose. Ergo we don't need land based fracking. The only reason is because it's even cheaper - which is good for profits, not the consumer and British citizens.

[Mrr T]

CoolHands said:

But it just blatantly doesn't make sense:

If the world cost is $40 or $50 a barrel so it's not viable to pump our own North Sea oil, then buy it in. The oversupply by Saudi Arabia etc is keeping the price low. Hence there is no supply problem (scary Russia might cut us off etc) as the low price is the direct result of that oversupply! The nations supplying it cannot stop as even at a low price they cannot afford to; their economies rely on it.

If the world price went back up to $100 a barrel or more due to opec restricting supply, then again our own North Sea oil becomes economically viable.

We cannot lose. Ergo we don't need land based fracking. The only reason is because it's even cheaper - which is good for profits, not the consumer and British citizens.

Can I suggest you first learn the difference between gas and oil. Gas prices have not collapsed in Europe only in the US. Gas production in the N Sea is still profitable but production is falling because fields are being depleted.

[Stylus]

A business needs to be profitable to survive, I'm not sure why that is a reason not to do it?

You're only focusing on the supply/availability which right now is plentiful but we've still got to buy that from somewhere else.

If we develop it domestically then the unit price paid may be the same as now, but you're creating companies, jobs and tax receipts in this country which badly needs them?

[Pooh]

CoolHands said:

But it just blatantly doesn't make sense:

If the world cost is $40 or $50 a barrel so it's not viable to pump our own North Sea oil, then buy it in. The oversupply by Saudi Arabia etc is keeping the price low. Hence there is no supply problem (scary Russia might cut us off etc) as the low price is the direct result of that oversupply! The nations supplying it cannot stop as even at a low price they cannot afford to; their economies rely on it.

If the world price went back up to $100 a barrel or more due to opec restricting supply, then again our own North Sea oil becomes economically viable.

We cannot lose. Ergo we don't need land based fracking. The only reason is because it's even cheaper - which is good for profits, not the consumer and British citizens.

That is a gross oversimplification, being dependant upon potentially hostile foreign governments for our energy is not sensible before you even consider the fact that domestically produced oil and gas pays a large amount of tax to the treasury which is not the case for imports.
Most of the large oil/gas fields in the North Sea have been discovered and exploited, production from the area was already in decline before the price drop and has accelerated because of it, to give an idea of what we are talking about, approximately 75000 people have lost their jobs in the last 18 months.
The small fields that remain need a high oil/gas price to make them viable but even if we did develop them it would not be enough to make us self sufficient again.
Profits and jobs from our domestic oil and gas industry are good for Britain and British citizens.

[Jimbeaux]

As we are now the world's largest producer of natural gas, I am hoping we build facilities on our east coast to liquify gas so we can ship over to you guys. We have more than plenty and it is damn cheap.

[s2art]

Jimbeaux said:

As we are now the world's largest producer of natural gas, I am hoping we build facilities on our east coast to liquify gas so we can ship over to you guys. We have more than plenty and it is damn cheap.

A lot happier getting gas from the USA rather than Russia. However I would be happier still if we developed our own shale gas.

[Jimbeaux]

s2art said:

Jimbeaux said:

As we are now the world's largest producer of natural gas, I am hoping we build facilities on our east coast to liquify gas so we can ship over to you guys. We have more than plenty and it is damn cheap.

A lot happier getting gas from the USA rather than Russia. However I would be happier still if we developed our own shale gas.

What size deposits are thought to exist s2art? There is a cost to benefit ratio based upon commodity price and/or quantity available for the setup cost and effort. While gas is shallower and easier to obtain than oil, fracking here is only sensible (for oil at least) when price per barrel is holding at a certain rate.

[s2art]

Jimbeaux said:

s2art said:

Jimbeaux said:

As we are now the world's largest producer of natural gas, I am hoping we build facilities on our east coast to liquify gas so we can ship over to you guys. We have more than plenty and it is damn cheap.

A lot happier getting gas from the USA rather than Russia. However I would be happier still if we developed our own shale gas.

What size deposits are thought to exist s2art? There is a cost to benefit ratio based upon commodity price and/or quantity available for the setup cost and effort. While gas is shallower and easier to obtain than oil, fracking here is only sensible (for oil at least) when price per barrel is holding at a certain rate.

We dont know yet. Estimates are huge but until they do some serious drilling and fracking its all unproven. Check out 'Bowland shale' for gas. See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

[Jimbeaux]

s2art said:

Jimbeaux said:

s2art said:

Jimbeaux said:

As we are now the world's largest producer of natural gas, I am hoping we build facilities on our east coast to liquify gas so we can ship over to you guys. We have more than plenty and it is damn cheap.

A lot happier getting gas from the USA rather than Russia. However I would be happier still if we developed our own shale gas.

What size deposits are thought to exist s2art? There is a cost to benefit ratio based upon commodity price and/or quantity available for the setup cost and effort. While gas is shallower and easier to obtain than oil, fracking here is only sensible (for oil at least) when price per barrel is holding at a certain rate.

We dont know yet. Estimates are huge but until they do some serious drilling and fracking its all unproven. Check out 'Bowland shale' for gas. See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Sounds as if you have an opportunity to create some real energy security there.

[CoolHands]

Jimbeaux said:

Sounds as if you have an opportunity to create some real energy security there.

But we don't need to create energy security by fracking - as you have point out we could probably purchase it from you in the event that our other suppliers shut us off (exceedingly unlikely). So why do we need to frack our own?