Give us a fracking break!

[s2art]

CoolHands said:

Jimbeaux said:

Sounds as if you have an opportunity to create some real energy security there.

But we don't need to create energy security by fracking - as you have point out we could probably purchase it from you in the event that our other suppliers shut us off (exceedingly unlikely). So why do we need to frack our own?

Money!

[Swervin_Mervin]

CoolHands said:

Jimbeaux said:

Sounds as if you have an opportunity to create some real energy security there.

But we don't need to create energy security by fracking - as you have point out we could probably purchase it from you in the event that our other suppliers shut us off (exceedingly unlikely). So why do we need to frack our own?

Hypothetical scenario for you:

You have three local retailers within crawling distance of your house that sell bottled water. By some chance you happen to be so dehydrated that you're on the brink of death it you don't drink some water soon. Trouble is, you p1ssed 2 of them off recently, so the only one left is the one that you've generally always had a positive relationship with.

They realise your predicament but, quite remarkably, market forces suddenly dictate that, to you, that bottle of water is going to cost £100.

Do you

1: Hold out in the even that you don't die before that friendly retailer drops his price to an acceptable level?
2: Pay £100 but fook it you're alive, right?
3: Turn the sodding tap on in your house?

[CoolHands]

Yes but both they & we have the KNOWLEDGE that we could frack if we had to. So therefore can't be held to ransom, that is the difference.

[turbobloke]

CoolHands said:

Yes but both they & we have the KNOWLEDGE that we could frack if we had to. So therefore can't be held to ransom, that is the difference.

It's not that immediate so cannot help in the manner suggested; also the greater amount of energy self-sufficiency, the greater the energy security.

It's rarely mentioned because politicians and the media are in thrall to the costly and dangerous green blob, but the current UK level of energy security is desperately low.

[AdeTuono]

CoolHands said:

Yes but both they & we have the KNOWLEDGE that we could frack if we had to. So therefore can't be held to ransom, that is the difference.

You don't just drill a well and produce; there are years between exploration and production. In the meantime, you would have shrivelled away to dust.

Another side of the same coin revolves around our ability to store gas. We have absolutely minimum capacity as it stands. Numerous projects have put on hold or cancelled completely over the past few years. If we were ever held o ransom, I understand our reserves would last hours, not days.

[motco]

Why spend dollars overseas when you could be spending sterling here and employing UK workers? Even if it costs a little more, and it shouldn't, it's money that remains in our system rather than going to a foreign treasury.

[hidetheelephants]

CoolHands said:

Why don't we just buy st loads of gas from Europe & Russia?

Are you saying that this fracking will be substantially cheaper? What is the comparison (costs)?

No-one credible has ever said it would significantly reduce gas prices, the argument has always been about energy security; there are also arguments about retaining renevue and tax base within the UK, but energy security is easily the biggest justification.

CoolHands said:

But we don't need to create energy security by fracking - as you have point out we could probably purchase it from you in the event that our other suppliers shut us off (exceedingly unlikely). So why do we need to frack our own?

You cannot buy energy security, it is intrinsically part of having physical and political control of the resource.

AdeTuono said:

CoolHands said:

Yes but both they & we have the KNOWLEDGE that we could frack if we had to. So therefore can't be held to ransom, that is the difference.

You don't just drill a well and produce; there are years between exploration and production. In the meantime, you would have shrivelled away to dust.

Another side of the same coin revolves around our ability to store gas. We have absolutely minimum capacity as it stands. Numerous projects have put on hold or cancelled completely over the past few years. If we were ever held o ransom, I understand our reserves would last hours, not days.

Assuming the likes of Ineos, Cuadrilla etc, got the green light and found commercially viable wells it would be 4-5 years before gas was produced in significant quantities; the infrastructure needed will take time to build and just drilling and fracking the wells is time consuming. Ade raises storage which is also a big energy security issue.

[Theoldman]

Rough gas storage, has had to shut down due to maintenance issues.
Might be back before winter, might not, if not then prices may climb as the owners of the gas look elsewhere for supplies.

National Grid already saying winter supply surplus very low.
Those diesel engines in field will probably be on if we have a cold winter.
I am expecting a cold one this winter, as all the signs are there!

Anyway, it's time to get on with it and start producing!

[zygalski]

Swervin_Mervin said:

CoolHands said:

Jimbeaux said:

Sounds as if you have an opportunity to create some real energy security there.

But we don't need to create energy security by fracking - as you have point out we could probably purchase it from you in the event that our other suppliers shut us off (exceedingly unlikely). So why do we need to frack our own?

Hypothetical scenario for you:

You have three local retailers within crawling distance of your house that sell bottled water. By some chance you happen to be so dehydrated that you're on the brink of death it you don't drink some water soon. Trouble is, you p1ssed 2 of them off recently, so the only one left is the one that you've generally always had a positive relationship with.

They realise your predicament but, quite remarkably, market forces suddenly dictate that, to you, that bottle of water is going to cost £100.

Do you

1: Hold out in the even that you don't die before that friendly retailer drops his price to an acceptable level?
2: Pay £100 but fook it you're alive, right?
3: Turn the sodding tap on in your house?

What if the local water supply has been polluted by fracking?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fracking_and_...

[motco]

zygalski said:

What if the local water supply has been polluted by fracking?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fracking_and_...

Benzene in ground water is not an unknown phenomenon. Perrier, that omnipresent expensive bottled, carbonated elixir of the chattering classes in the 1970s and 80s, alomst disappeared overnight when benzene was found in this 'healthy' alternative to tap water. The story

[turbobloke]

zygalski said:

What if the local water supply has been polluted by fracking?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fracking_and_...

Another source to watch:

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/17525/2015...

[HD Adam]

zygalski said:

What if the local water supply has been polluted by fracking?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fracking_and_...

Ehrrrmagherrrd, fracking pollution.

Hopefully this won't happen and we'll be able to drink our untreated fresh water free from fertilizers & chemicals that run off from the fields, drugs that get flushed down the toilets and general crap that washes from the roads into the drains.

[Tom Logan]

This just about sums it up.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technol...

So much scaremongering by the greeny-mouthed lentilistas, so little knowledge.

Buy st loads of candles and firewood, if this winter is going to be half as bad as predicted they'll be needed.

I have a woodburner and a genny so I don't need to worry.

[Jimbeaux]

Another reason to produce your own gas is not just energy security but the service industry that grows around it. I know that our service industry here accounts for nearly the same amount of revenue generated than does the gas itself.

[Composite Guru]

Interesting info from one of the US fracking areas.

http://www.fraw.org.uk/library/extreme/lauer_2016....

[hidetheelephants]

Composite Guru said:

Interesting info from one of the US fracking areas.

http://www.fraw.org.uk/library/extreme/lauer_2016....

That's just stty housekeeping though, there's nothing about wastewater mishandling that is intrinsic to fracking.

[turbobloke]

Obama Energy Czar: 'Actually, Fracking Is Pretty Good For The Environment'.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/24/obama-energy-c...

[jet_noise]

turbobloke said:

Obama Energy Czar: 'Actually, Fracking Is Pretty Good For The Environment'.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/24/obama-energy-c...

Comments are quite amusing too.
I'm guessing the Federalist's readers are not Greenpeace subscribers

[turbobloke]

jet_noise said:

turbobloke said:

Obama Energy Czar: 'Actually, Fracking Is Pretty Good For The Environment'.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/24/obama-energy-c...

Comments are quite amusing too.
I'm guessing the Federalist's readers are not Greenpeace subscribers

Indeed. I liked this:

Contributor 1: "Isn't fracking caused by climate change?"

Contributor 2: "No no no, you've got that all wrong. Fracking causes global shrinkage, which contributes to global warming."

[mondeoman]

turbobloke said:

jet_noise said:

turbobloke said:

Obama Energy Czar: 'Actually, Fracking Is Pretty Good For The Environment'.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/24/obama-energy-c...

Comments are quite amusing too.
I'm guessing the Federalist's readers are not Greenpeace subscribers

Indeed. I liked this:

Contributor 1: "Isn't fracking caused by climate change?"

Contributor 2: "No no no, you've got that all wrong. Fracking causes global shrinkage, which contributes to global warming."

"A recent study found that fracking has reduced carbon emissions by 20 percent, whereas the costly and heavily subsidized development of solar and wind energy has only reduced these same emissions by roughly 1 percent."
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/issues-201...

Oh dear, thats another torpedo up greenpieces rse.