Give us a fracking break!

[McWigglebum4th]

Andy Zarse said:

Wooooo.... get you! Very hanky-up-cuff.


Seriously, I completely agree your sentiments, I'd love to see it here in te South Downs National Park. I've been told fracking would result in open pits of poisonous fluids evaporating into the air... does anyone seriously believe the environmental legislation in the county would ever allow such a thing?

And we're told they'll be up to 600 poisons and chemicals used in the process. What the fuch is "up to" supposed mean? I'd want to know exactly how many and what they are, my guess is it's probably not more than 6 and they're all relatively harmless.

.

http://www.cuadrillaresources.com/what-we-do/hydraulic-fracturing/fracturing-fluid/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2483690/Bo...

At a recent industry conference they handed out bottles of fracking fluid to drink, apparently it doesn't taste very good but no worse then warm american larger

http://www.halliburton.com/public/projects/pubsdat...

Lets pick a scarey looking chemical

http://www.halliburton.com/public/projects/pubsdat...

OH that sounds BAD

lets look deeper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride

Fatal dose Orally, potassium chloride is toxic in excess; the LD50 is around 2.5 g/kg (meaning that a lethal dose for 50% of people weighing 75 kg (165 lb) is about 190 g (6.7 ounces)). However, this is not far from oral toxicity of sodium chloride (table salt), of 3.75 g/kg,

Another popular ingredient is guar gum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guar_gum



But the vast majority of what they pump down there is water and sand

I am sure there is a longer list of nasty sounding chemicals in diet coke

Just diet coke is less gritty, though fracking fluid is probably easier to get out of the carpet

[Einion Yrth]

McWigglebum4th said:

Just diet coke is less gritty, though fracking fluid is probably easier to get out of the carpet

I suspect it tastes better too.

[Biscuit dunker]

I listened to chunks of You and Yours today on R4 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04bndm1) who dedicated the entire programme to a call in with Francis Egan, CEO of Cuadrilla, and was often staggered at the comments / questions of the callers. I generally find R4 listeners to be reasonably knowledgeable but many of the callers today were so ill informed it defied belief! Even allowing for a fair percentage being 'planted' by the no brigade there really is a vast amount of work needed to educate the general public on what fracking really entails.

One caller who'd just completed her GCSE's said that as part of her (geography?) course she'd been taught that fracking devastated the countryside and ruined the atmosphere. Either she spoke the truth or she's going to be really dissappointed when she gets her results in September..

[motco]

Biscuit dunker said:

I listened to chunks of You and Yours today on R4 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04bndm1) who dedicated the entire programme to a call in with Francis Egan, CEO of Cuadrilla, and was often staggered at the comments / questions of the callers. I generally find R4 listeners to be reasonably knowledgeable but many of the callers today were so ill informed it defied belief! Even allowing for a fair percentage being 'planted' by the no brigade there really is a vast amount of work needed to educate the general public on what fracking really entails.

One caller who'd just completed her GCSE's said that as part of her (geography?) course she'd been taught that fracking devastated the countryside and ruined the atmosphere. Either she spoke the truth or she's going to be really dissappointed when she gets her results in September..

That was what prompted me to say that GCSE pupils are brain washed. It is scandalous. It seems to me that the FotE and Greenpeace propaganda has taken root in many people. Egan was unflappable even when confronted with astonishingly ill-informed callers, but he has to work very hard against prejudice.

[Biscuit dunker]

motco said:

Biscuit dunker said:

I listened to chunks of You and Yours today on R4 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04bndm1) who dedicated the entire programme to a call in with Francis Egan, CEO of Cuadrilla, and was often staggered at the comments / questions of the callers. I generally find R4 listeners to be reasonably knowledgeable but many of the callers today were so ill informed it defied belief! Even allowing for a fair percentage being 'planted' by the no brigade there really is a vast amount of work needed to educate the general public on what fracking really entails.

One caller who'd just completed her GCSE's said that as part of her (geography?) course she'd been taught that fracking devastated the countryside and ruined the atmosphere. Either she spoke the truth or she's going to be really dissappointed when she gets her results in September..

That was what prompted me to say that GCSE pupils are brain washed. It is scandalous. It seems to me that the FotE and Greenpeace propaganda has taken root in many people. Egan was unflappable even when confronted with astonishingly ill-informed callers, but he has to work very hard against prejudice.

Agreed and have to say full marks to him for putting himself front and centre and taking the flak.

[hidetheelephants]

BoRED S2upid said:

London424 said:

Reducing tax from 62% to 30% doesn't sound too bad to me.

I'd rather 30% of profit, rather than subsidising green energy projects. In turn, you would expect energy bills to go down as well.

Who expects energy prices to go down?

They could find huge reserves right under our feet tonnes of the stuff it won't change the price it will just make them more money!

This is a pretty inaccurate view of how oil and gas prices work; more supply plus greater supply security equals lower prices. There's not going to be a price drop like they had in the US, but that has been dependent upon an exponential growth in drilling and a temporary ban on export, which will end next year when the first load of US ethane is shipped to Grangemouth. The end of the export ban will raise US prices quite a bit.

[pcvdriver]

Andy Zarse said:

Wooooo.... get you! Very hanky-up-cuff.


Seriously, I completely agree your sentiments, I'd love to see it here in te South Downs National Park. I've been told fracking would result in open pits of poisonous fluids evaporating into the air... does anyone seriously believe the environmental legislation in the county would ever allow such a thing?

And we're told they'll be up to 600 poisons and chemicals used in the process. What the fuch is "up to" supposed mean? I'd want to know exactly how many and what they are, my guess is it's probably not more than 6 and they're all relatively harmless.

PS I would tend to ignore Zygalski, he's little more than a troll IIRC.

If you want to know what the chemicals are - then here's a list, as compiled from our friends from the other side of the pond....

http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/de...

[Chlamydia]

I watched Gasland and was appalled. Then I watched Frack Nation and felt like a proper spoon for having been appalled. The dishonesty of the anti-frack brigade is astonishing and it's almost like a religious cult now.

[pcvdriver]

France and Germany have taken the steps to ban fracking, surely you need to ask yourself why both countries thought this was necessary? France, however is more than happy to carry out fracking over here, but just not on their own soil - what does that tell you? Even in some American States, they are getting round to thinking "Hey this isn't such a great idea after-all"

Link: http://keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-frackin...

Edited by pcvdriver on Tuesday 29th July 21:06

[Biscuit dunker]

pcvdriver said:

Andy Zarse said:

Wooooo.... get you! Very hanky-up-cuff.


Seriously, I completely agree your sentiments, I'd love to see it here in te South Downs National Park. I've been told fracking would result in open pits of poisonous fluids evaporating into the air... does anyone seriously believe the environmental legislation in the county would ever allow such a thing?

And we're told they'll be up to 600 poisons and chemicals used in the process. What the fuch is "up to" supposed mean? I'd want to know exactly how many and what they are, my guess is it's probably not more than 6 and they're all relatively harmless.

PS I would tend to ignore Zygalski, he's little more than a troll IIRC.

If you want to know what the chemicals are - then here's a list, as compiled from our friends from the other side of the pond....

http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/de...

Listen to the You and Yours phone in (link above) - apparently the water used in UK fracking will only have one additive (not the multiple additives used in the US) which reduces friction in the water to counter the effects of pumping water down to depths of over 3000ft. It's a chemical also used in the eye drops for contact lens users......

[hidetheelephants]

pcvdriver said:

France and Germany have taken the steps to ban fracking, surely you need to ask yourself why both countries thought this was necessary? France, however is more than happy to carry out fracking over here, but just not on their own soil - what does that tell you? Even in some American States, they are getting round to thinking "Hey this isn't such a great idea after-all"

Link: http://keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-frackin...

Edited by pcvdriver on Tuesday 29th July 21:06

Germany has also shut down several perfectly functional nuclear power stations and opted to burn coal instead, all in the name of saving the planet.

The watermelons are firmly in charge there and brook no dissent, regardless of it making no sense, costing the German electricity bill payer, or threatening german energy security; they'd rather rely on Vlad gas than drill for thir own(although I'm sure they'd buy it from Poland if they go ahead and drill).

[pcvdriver]

Biscuit dunker said:

Listen to the You and Yours phone in (link above) - apparently the water used in UK fracking will only have one additive (not the multiple additives used in the US) which reduces friction in the water to counter the effects of pumping water down to depths of over 3000ft. It's a chemical also used in the eye drops for contact lens users......

.....and I suppose guarantees have been given that this will be the case - forgive me for being sceptical, but I'd venture that it will be a case of "Oh now we need to use this chemical and this chemical and this..... due to the varying nature of the shale etc etc"......

[Olf]

I have to admit to being in the energy industry so not altogether unbiased. I also think the industry could do a lot more to help dispel some of the myths and show good science. I also can't see shale happening in the UK on even a fraction of the same scale that it has in Texas and Louisiana for example. It's not pretty and it's barely economical on that scale so I struggle to see how it's going to work here. But with all that said...

I see shale gas extraction as broadly similar to farming. Broadly speaking it's about harvesting a product from the ground (gas) and it requires some chemicals to extract it (proppants, etc). But wait - farmers have been cultivating and yes, polluting the soil and water courses on an industrial scale now for years - say about 50 years. They do it for good reason - to feed hungry populations. The Nitrogen and Potassium based fertilisers they use have a whole host of side effects for the environment that we happily turn a blind eye to because it probably suits us.

But now, unusually, when it's not in plain sight but hidden thousands of metres under the ground, people are suddenly up in arms about fraccing for gas extraction. Why is that? Because it might affect the water courses, ground water and aquifers? Well most of those are already nicely topped up with Nitrates. So what gives? Is it just that the big ugly oil man is going to make some money from it? Well the big ugly oil man pays a good portion of most people's pensions, fuels most peoples cars and keeps most houses warm. And strangely enough, the manufacture of the vast proportion of fertilisers needs significant amounts of guess what? Yep, natural gas. So it's all a bit tricky really.

I'm not sure there's a wrong or a right in this - I'm just sick of the hypocrites.

[hidetheelephants]

Olf said:

I have to admit to being in the energy industry so not altogether unbiased. I also think the industry could do a lot more to help dispel some of the myths and show good science. I also can't see shale happening in the UK on even a fraction of the same scale that it has in Texas and Louisiana for example. It's not pretty and it's barely economical on that scale so I struggle to see how it's going to work here. But with all that said...

What about the largest onshore oil field in europe? It's been there for 40 years yet no fluffy animals have died, and despite the use of evil directional drilling and cruel fracking no puppies have had soap rubbed in their eyes nor any beagles tempted with illicit Marlboro. I appreciate that oil and gas companies are in the business of making money, but they don't have horns or cloven feet and the UK has a much stricter regulatory framework than the US. All the techniques used in fracking have been in regular use in the North Sea for years, what we have here is a really effective snow job by the green movement and their version has gone round the world before the Cuadrilla PR chaps have even got their trousers on.

[Martin4x4]

Get the real facts about Dihydrogen monoxide it really is insidious stuff.

[andymadmak]

Martin4x4 said:

Get the real facts about Dihydrogen monoxide it really is insidious stuff.

Erm. Are you sure thats not a spoof site? Or am I now due a visit from whoooosh parrot ops?

[pcvdriver]

andymadmak said:

Erm. Are you sure thats not a spoof site? Or am I now due a visit from whoooosh parrot ops?

parrot on it's way.... maybe you'd best sit down and have a glass of water.....lol

[andymadmak]

pcvdriver said:

andymadmak said:

Erm. Are you sure thats not a spoof site? Or am I now due a visit from whoooosh parrot ops?

parrot on it's way.... maybe you'd best sit down and have a glass of water.....lol

It's late...... I'm tired....... Erm...... Aw bugger!

[Andy Zarse]

Martin4x4 said:

Get the real facts about Dihydrogen monoxide it really is insidious stuff.

Oh dear. Martin as soon as I saw your name next to the link I knew exactly what to expect; obsessive drivel from the mentally ill. I wasn't disappointed.

[Moonhawk]

andymadmak said:

Martin4x4 said:

Get the real facts about Dihydrogen monoxide it really is insidious stuff.

Erm. Are you sure thats not a spoof site? Or am I now due a visit from whoooosh parrot ops?

Yep - although factually correct.

It's a great example of how presenting information in a different way can lead to a very different message.

I would love one of the tabloids to run a story on this as an experiment - just to see how the public would react. It would be one hell of an April fools day prank.