Give us a fracking break!

[McWigglebum4th]

FredClogs said:

McWigglebum4th said:

But for some reason it is never mentioned when wind turbines are put up

The traffic issues involved with the site (as I understand) aren't just about the initial build phase. The flow back hydraulic fluid will be stored locally at the perimeter of the site but will need to be removed from site, Cuadrilla have proposed since the original consultation a 20% reuse but even with this there is many thousands of liters a day which will need to be removed from site to be treated. And of course if the well is successful and viable then the gas will need to be removed from the site - one would assume this will be a quite sizable and require a pipeline to a site nearby or a lot of HGVs coming and going.

I want this to happen, I'm not anti at all and find some of the opinions and actions of the local antis risible, but I also have young kids and live in a nice quiet rural village that I don't particularly want to move from, Cuadrilla are making noises about being good neighbors and have offered to do work on sections of road and give the community over £400k in cash, it's a really tough decision.

Not 100% sure how they will take gas offsite but i imagine it will go into the grid

The condensate will be trucked away but i can't see that being a huge amount

As to returned hydraulic fluid otherwise known as water with some sand in it i can't see why that can't be treated onsite apart from the anti everythings but remember 1000ltrs = 1 ton

a HGV can carry 25 tons?

I don't see it being more then 2 lorries a day once running

[TwoLeadFeet]

FredClogs said:

And of course if the well is successful and viable then the gas will need to be removed from the site - one would assume this will be a quite sizable and require a pipeline to a site nearby or a lot of HGVs coming and going.

During extended flow testing, if initial flow testing was successful, the gas would flow into the gas network through new pipelines and connections to the gas grid.

The same would happen for ongoing production after successful well testing, so not "a lot of HGVs coming and going" then.

[McWigglebum4th]

TwoLeadFeet said:

McWigglebum4th said:

But for some reason it is never mentioned when wind turbines are put up

True. Are the HGV movements for a windmill eyesore comparable with a frack site?

Edited by TwoLeadFeet on Thursday 22 January 15:36

After living in the middle of a wind farm they certainly don't fly the fking things in

And there is the regular trips of the wee white van when too much winds means they get confused and he has to reset their tiny wee mind

[FredClogs]

fttm said:

This is fracking . Company I work for are on a job in Northern Alberta , the project requires 800,000 cubic meters of liquid nitrogen (40 semi trailers)per day , for 15 months !!!!!!
Sometime in early 2016 I expect half of Canada to cave in .

There is not plan (at this stage) to liquify the gas to remove it from the site (presumably what your liquid nitrogen was for) they're going going to test some gas and burn it off. But as I said in the post above presumably at some point the goal is to create a well that produces an economically viable amount of gas which would involve getting the gas off site by some means.

[FredClogs]

McWigglebum4th said:

FredClogs said:

McWigglebum4th said:

But for some reason it is never mentioned when wind turbines are put up

The traffic issues involved with the site (as I understand) aren't just about the initial build phase. The flow back hydraulic fluid will be stored locally at the perimeter of the site but will need to be removed from site, Cuadrilla have proposed since the original consultation a 20% reuse but even with this there is many thousands of liters a day which will need to be removed from site to be treated. And of course if the well is successful and viable then the gas will need to be removed from the site - one would assume this will be a quite sizable and require a pipeline to a site nearby or a lot of HGVs coming and going.

I want this to happen, I'm not anti at all and find some of the opinions and actions of the local antis risible, but I also have young kids and live in a nice quiet rural village that I don't particularly want to move from, Cuadrilla are making noises about being good neighbors and have offered to do work on sections of road and give the community over £400k in cash, it's a really tough decision.

Not 100% sure how they will take gas offsite but i imagine it will go into the grid

The condensate will be trucked away but i can't see that being a huge amount

As to returned hydraulic fluid otherwise known as water with some sand in it i can't see why that can't be treated onsite apart from the anti everythings but remember 1000ltrs = 1 ton

a HGV can carry 25 tons?

I don't see it being more then 2 lorries a day once running

As far as I understand they can't dump shale gas straight into the grid because the quality and make up of the gas can be very variable - it's the nature of Shale gas even in very high quality wells the gas needs to be processed before they can just pipe it into the grid - that's my understanding.

[TwoLeadFeet]

FredClogs said:

As far as I understand they can't dump shale gas straight into the grid because the quality and make up of the gas can be very variable - it's the nature of Shale gas even in very high quality wells the gas needs to be processed before they can just pipe it into the grid - that's my understanding.

From Cuadrilla's workscope submission

"If sufficient gas is measured during Initial Flow Testing, the exploratory activities would
move into Extended Flow Testing. For each well this could last between 18 and 24
months. Gas produced would not be burned in the flare stacks but instead would flow
through a new connection into the gas grid. This process would require the installation
of equipment within the boundary of the well pad to filter and prepare the gas.
The gas would be filtered to separate sand, liquid and gas. The gas would then be
dried to remove any remaining water and would pass through a carbon filter to remove
any impurities. Following testing of the hydrocarbon levels, propane may be added to
increase the calorific value of the gas. Data would be gathered regarding the flow
rates and well pressure. A regulator would be installed to limit pressure to 75bar prior
to injection into the gas grid. Declining rates of gas flow would be measured along
with an assessment of the amount of flowback fluid produced.
The gas would flow through a buried gas pipeline to connect with the gas grid at a new
connection point to the east of the well pad."

[McWigglebum4th]

FredClogs said:

fttm said:

This is fracking . Company I work for are on a job in Northern Alberta , the project requires 800,000 cubic meters of liquid nitrogen (40 semi trailers)per day , for 15 months !!!!!!
Sometime in early 2016 I expect half of Canada to cave in .

There is not plan (at this stage) to liquify the gas to remove it from the site (presumably what your liquid nitrogen was for) they're going going to test some gas and burn it off. But as I said in the post above presumably at some point the goal is to create a well that produces an economically viable amount of gas which would involve getting the gas off site by some means.

Nope

It is regasified and then pumped at silly pressure down the well to do gas fracking


Using LN2 to make LNG would work but it is a very silly idea unless you compress and cool a good few times before using the LN2 to finally liquifie

[McWigglebum4th]

TwoLeadFeet said:

FredClogs said:

As far as I understand they can't dump shale gas straight into the grid because the quality and make up of the gas can be very variable - it's the nature of Shale gas even in very high quality wells the gas needs to be processed before they can just pipe it into the grid - that's my understanding.

From Cuadrilla's workscope submission

"If sufficient gas is measured during Initial Flow Testing, the exploratory activities would
move into Extended Flow Testing. For each well this could last between 18 and 24
months. Gas produced would not be burned in the flare stacks but instead would flow
through a new connection into the gas grid. This process would require the installation
of equipment within the boundary of the well pad to filter and prepare the gas.
The gas would be filtered to separate sand, liquid and gas. The gas would then be
dried to remove any remaining water and would pass through a carbon filter to remove
any impurities. Following testing of the hydrocarbon levels, propane may be added to
increase the calorific value of the gas. Data would be gathered regarding the flow
rates and well pressure. A regulator would be installed to limit pressure to 75bar prior
to injection into the gas grid. Declining rates of gas flow would be measured along
with an assessment of the amount of flowback fluid produced.
The gas would flow through a buried gas pipeline to connect with the gas grid at a new
connection point to the east of the well pad."

Being very very vaguely involved with the manufacture of these treatment units you are looking at something about the size of a shipping container

[FredClogs]

TwoLeadFeet said:

FredClogs said:

As far as I understand they can't dump shale gas straight into the grid because the quality and make up of the gas can be very variable - it's the nature of Shale gas even in very high quality wells the gas needs to be processed before they can just pipe it into the grid - that's my understanding.

From Cuadrilla's workscope submission

"If sufficient gas is measured during Initial Flow Testing, the exploratory activities would
move into Extended Flow Testing. For each well this could last between 18 and 24
months. Gas produced would not be burned in the flare stacks but instead would flow
through a new connection into the gas grid. This process would require the installation
of equipment within the boundary of the well pad to filter and prepare the gas.
The gas would be filtered to separate sand, liquid and gas. The gas would then be
dried to remove any remaining water and would pass through a carbon filter to remove
any impurities. Following testing of the hydrocarbon levels, propane may be added to
increase the calorific value of the gas. Data would be gathered regarding the flow
rates and well pressure. A regulator would be installed to limit pressure to 75bar prior
to injection into the gas grid. Declining rates of gas flow would be measured along
with an assessment of the amount of flowback fluid produced.
The gas would flow through a buried gas pipeline to connect with the gas grid at a new
connection point to the east of the well pad."

Cheers, so how do they dry it?

[McWigglebum4th]

FredClogs said:

Cheers, so how do they dry it?

Ever owned a dyson vacuum cleaner?

Pretty much the same idea as the plastic bit that gets filled with pubes, skin and lego

[Scuffers]

FredClogs said:

fttm said:

This is fracking . Company I work for are on a job in Northern Alberta , the project requires 800,000 cubic meters of liquid nitrogen (40 semi trailers)per day , for 15 months !!!!!!
Sometime in early 2016 I expect half of Canada to cave in .

There is not plan (at this stage) to liquify the gas to remove it from the site (presumably what your liquid nitrogen was for) they're going going to test some gas and burn it off. But as I said in the post above presumably at some point the goal is to create a well that produces an economically viable amount of gas which would involve getting the gas off site by some means.

there are a few mobile LNG rigs available now eg:

http://www.ogpe.com/articles/print/volume-59/issue...

LNG is ~450Kg's/m3 density, typically LNG trucks are some 56m3 capacity (~25 ton)

(1m3 LNG is ~6.5Mwh of energy)

[HD Adam]

FredClogs said:

The traffic issues involved with the site (as I understand) aren't just about the initial build phase. The flow back hydraulic fluid will be stored locally at the perimeter of the site but will need to be removed from site, Cuadrilla have proposed since the original consultation a 20% reuse but even with this there is many thousands of liters a day which will need to be removed from site to be treated. And of course if the well is successful and viable then the gas will need to be removed from the site - one would assume this will be a quite sizable and require a pipeline to a site nearby or a lot of HGVs coming and going.

I want this to happen, I'm not anti at all and find some of the opinions and actions of the local antis risible, but I also have young kids and live in a nice quiet rural village that I don't particularly want to move from, Cuadrilla are making noises about being good neighbors and have offered to do work on sections of road and give the community over £400k in cash, it's a really tough decision.

The fracking water is only used and removed during the fracking process.

After that, there isn't much water, just the gas or oil.

If there's a pipeline, it will go underground. You won't see it.

[FredClogs]

McWigglebum4th said:

FredClogs said:

Cheers, so how do they dry it?

Ever owned a dyson vacuum cleaner?

Pretty much the same idea as the plastic bit that gets filled with pubes, skin and lego

Ok, thanks.

(You need to wash more often).

Like I said there is a lot of misinformation swimming around, I'm universally cynical to most of it, which makes it hard to actually project what the future is going to look like but the rumors are that there will be a constant train of HGVs coming and going from the site, up to 300 a day? I don't know what or why though. What would the liquid nitrogen the chap mentioned up the thread be used for?

[TwoLeadFeet]

FredClogs said:

Cheers, so how do they dry it?

Dehydration with glycol usually, either by absorption through a pressure vessel or direct injection into the gas line

[TwoLeadFeet]

FredClogs said:

Ok, thanks.

(You need to wash more often).

FredClogs said:

Like I said there is a lot of misinformation swimming around, I'm universally cynical to most of it, which makes it hard to actually project what the future is going to look like but the rumors are that there will be a constant train of HGVs coming and going from the site, up to 300 a day? I don't know what or why though.

Indeed, the protesters are doing their level best to frighten people with deliberate falsehoods. The planning application mentions 50 two-way HGV movements at peak, maximum daily average at most 22 per day

FredClogs said:

What would the liquid nitrogen the chap mentioned up the thread be used for?

Fracturing of the wells I expect, re-gassify and inject downhole at high pressure

[HD Adam]

Re Nitrogen.

I'll post this from Rigzone as it explains it better than I could.

Rigzone said:

In workover and completion operations, nitrogen is an optimal choice to displace well fluids in order to initiate flow and clean wells because of its low density and high pressure characteristics. The high-pressure gas is also used for production stimulation through hydraulic fracturing. Also, nitrogen is used for cementing operations and controlling cement slurry weights.

Additionally, nitrogen is used to maintain pressure in reservoirs that have either been depleted of hydrocarbons or experienced natural pressure reduction. Because nitrogen is immiscible (or does not mix) with oil and water, a nitrogen injection program or nitrogen flood can be used to move missed pockets of hydrocarbons from an injection well to a production well.

Once you've done the last Frac and the well is full of water, the well pressure from the gas or oil may not be enough to lift the column of well fluid out of the well to you run in with Coil Tubing to the bottom of the well and pump Nitrogen down to lift it out so thhat the well can flow.

[McWigglebum4th]

FredClogs said:

Ok, thanks.

(You need to wash more often).

Like I said there is a lot of misinformation swimming around, I'm universally cynical to most of it, which makes it hard to actually project what the future is going to look like but the rumors are that there will be a constant train of HGVs coming and going from the site, up to 300 a day? I don't know what or why though. What would the liquid nitrogen the chap mentioned up the thread be used for?

Ideally they would use compressed industrial nitrogen as it is dry (no water) and pure (no oxygen or CO2) and inert (it don't go BOOM)

However to get that much N2 moved around is an utter pain in the arse

So they use it in liquid form being liquid is the good thing, being cold is just a pain in the butt


If they are using it in small quantities it will be used for inerting (removing oxygen from lines before or removing hydrocarbons after use) so it don't go bang or leak detection when mixed with helium (hold a budgie near a pipe if its voice goes squeaky you have a leak)(budgie maybe a mass spectrometer)

If being used in large quantities then it will be to gas frack or to pressurise the well to push hydrocarbons out


Either way it is held in insulated tanks and then piped into a pump where it is pumped up to typically 5000psi to 10000psi this pump is driven by a big diesel engine. The diesel engine then sticks its cooling water through a heat exchanger where it warms the liquid N2 up and it becomes a gas which is then used as above


or

you can belive the anti fracking explanation as below


THEY USE IT TO FREEZE KITTENS AND PUPPIES TO DEATH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[McWigglebum4th]

HD Adam said:

Re Nitrogen.

I'll post this from Rigzone as it explains it better than I could.

Rigzone said:

In workover and completion operations, nitrogen is an optimal choice to displace well fluids in order to initiate flow and clean wells because of its low density and high pressure characteristics. The high-pressure gas is also used for production stimulation through hydraulic fracturing. Also, nitrogen is used for cementing operations and controlling cement slurry weights.

Additionally, nitrogen is used to maintain pressure in reservoirs that have either been depleted of hydrocarbons or experienced natural pressure reduction. Because nitrogen is immiscible (or does not mix) with oil and water, a nitrogen injection program or nitrogen flood can be used to move missed pockets of hydrocarbons from an injection well to a production well.

Once you've done the last Frac and the well is full of water, the well pressure from the gas or oil may not be enough to lift the column of well fluid out of the well to you run in with Coil Tubing to the bottom of the well and pump Nitrogen down to lift it out so thhat the well can flow.

think giant under ground soda stream

[hidetheelephants]

TwoLeadFeet said:

McWigglebum4th said:

But for some reason it is never mentioned when wind turbines are put up

True. Are the HGV movements for a windmill eyesore comparable with a frack site?

On a per kWh basis they probably work out similar; a lot more wagon movements for a single drilling site compared to a single turbine, but a lot more energy too.

[Scuffers]

yea, it's not like the turbines need loads of big trucks is it?







then all the concrete and re-bar trucks etc to build these:




then the buildings