How many Romanian/Bulgarian migrants are you predicting?

[BlackLabel]

Telegraph said:

Hundreds of thousands more EU migrants may have come to Britain than disclosed in official records, experts have warned as ministers were accused of hiding the full scale of immigration.

Official figures published suggested that 257,000 migrants came to Britain last year, with a significant rise in the number of Bulgarians and Romanians.

However over the same period 630,000 EU citizens registered for a national insurance number, which would entitle them to work or claim benefits in Britain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12173817/Ministers-hiding-full-scale-of-EU-immigration.html

[danllama]

I don't think any of us are surprised by that. We all know they come and go as they please. All part and parcel of being part of the wonderful Union

630k new NI numbers. Astonishing.

[PRTVR]

BlackLabel said:

Telegraph said:

Hundreds of thousands more EU migrants may have come to Britain than disclosed in official records, experts have warned as ministers were accused of hiding the full scale of immigration.

Official figures published suggested that 257,000 migrants came to Britain last year, with a significant rise in the number of Bulgarians and Romanians.

However over the same period 630,000 EU citizens registered for a national insurance number, which would entitle them to work or claim benefits in Britain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12173817/Ministers-hiding-full-scale-of-EU-immigration.html

The subject has just been discussed on Daily politics,looks like the official figures are only guesstimates. Worth a view on catch up when available.

[PRTVR]

danllama said:

I don't think any of us are surprised by that. We all know they come and go as they please. All part and parcel of being part of the wonderful Union

630k new NI numbers. Astonishing.

That's approximately the population of Bristol in one year, it also will not include children or non working mothers.

[Digga]

PRTVR said:

danllama said:

I don't think any of us are surprised by that. We all know they come and go as they please. All part and parcel of being part of the wonderful Union

630k new NI numbers. Astonishing.

That's approximately the population of Bristol in one year, it also will not include children or non working mothers.

Being cynically mercenary - where is the resultant GDP growth?

[SeeFive]

Digga said:

PRTVR said:

danllama said:

I don't think any of us are surprised by that. We all know they come and go as they please. All part and parcel of being part of the wonderful Union

630k new NI numbers. Astonishing.

That's approximately the population of Bristol in one year, it also will not include children or non working mothers.

Being cynically mercenary - where is the resultant GDP growth?

You are looking at the wrong side of the balance sheet. You may need to look at the "costs" side to see a larger number associated with the overall collective

Of course, as individuals, there will be differences to each net contribution / drain on UK plc. Shame we cannot make a selection up front on who we think will contribute and who will not, you know, maybe some sort of points related immigration policy before folks are allowed in. Hey ho.

[MDMetal]

My fiancée came here 8-9 years ago, she works harder than I do if I'm honest, has never claimed anything and never sent anything home either so it's unrealistic to generalise. She has friends who have been here didn't like it and left, others who love it and have become citizens. Only one a reasonable group of them has ever claimed anything, said person is particularly lazy and does nothing at all but has a free house nicer than the one we live in which we sweated for, but then we grow plenty of those sorts of people on our doorstep.

I'd like to hear the % of immigrants on benefits vs the % that come to the country I doubt it's really a massive issue vs how it's drummed up by the media etc. Clearly we should fix it but it's vastly unfair to think everyone comes here for that reason. Also I imagine euro's flow out of Germany a lot more than the UK, plenty of east Europeans work in Germany but "live" back home. I'll wager they spend less of their money in Germany than those that live in England.

[dandarez]

PRTVR said:

danllama said:

I don't think any of us are surprised by that. We all know they come and go as they please. All part and parcel of being part of the wonderful Union

630k new NI numbers. Astonishing.

That's approximately the population of Bristol in one year, it also will not include children or non working mothers.

Ha ha ha, Farage the scaremongerer, the Guardianista and other idiots chanted less than a year ago - just a dribble of Rs and Bs have turned up, as they mocked him in unison.

Many leftie pc liberalising types were quick to seize the moment and report, some even stating the number of Rs and Bs working in the UK had fallen.

Again, they all cry in unison: Farage is simply 'scaremongering'.
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/05/15/ukip-acc...

Well, well.
Looks as if Farage was correct, the Rs & Bs are just taking a tad longer to get to the UK.

Now, here's a question: how many more to come?

A baker's dozen?
That's probably what we'll be told by the pc idiots.

[dandarez]

eharding said:

danllama said:

And they are all sending all their hard earned home!

I know this because my girlfriend is Romanian. They come purely to earn decent bread. Fair play.

Doesn't do fk all for our economy though, does it? So that argument for mass immigration goes straight out the window.

Think of it a providing a social service.

These Romanian chicks shag the British blokes that no British chick would touch with the wrong end of a sh!tty stick, and send home of the 'decent bread' they derive as a result.

You're not actually complaining about that, are you?

Whoa Ed.
That really 'is' bottom of the barrel stuff.

[JagLover]

MDMetal said:

My fiancée came here 8-9 years ago, she works harder than I do if I'm honest, has never claimed anything and never sent anything home either so it's unrealistic to generalise. She has friends who have been here didn't like it and left, others who love it and have become citizens. Only one a reasonable group of them has ever claimed anything, said person is particularly lazy and does nothing at all but has a free house nicer than the one we live in which we sweated for, but then we grow plenty of those sorts of people on our doorstep.

I'd like to hear the % of immigrants on benefits vs the % that come to the country I doubt it's really a massive issue vs how it's drummed up by the media etc. Clearly we should fix it but it's vastly unfair to think everyone comes here for that reason. Also I imagine euro's flow out of Germany a lot more than the UK, plenty of east Europeans work in Germany but "live" back home. I'll wager they spend less of their money in Germany than those that live in England.

It is the wrong question

We live in an advanced nation with expensive public services and the earnings of the low paid topped up via inwork benefits.

So the question is not how many do no work and just claim benefits (slightly less for EU migrants than indigenous whites) the question is how many actually pay enough tax and NI to pay for their costs to the state.

[Pan Pan Pan]

One of the facets of the current migration crises, I have thought about, is why are the men of the various countries fleeing to other countries, with the UK being considered a prime destination?
I wonder what would have happened to the UK, if during WW2, all the young men of fighting age here in the UK, had decided to simply f*ck off and flee to another country when this country was presented with the massive threat posed by Hitler? (and leaving their women and children behind to take whatever Hitler would have dished out once he had walked in)
If they cared about their country, and wives and children, why did they not fight to protect them, rather than just run, leaving them all behind?
My first question to any of them trying to get in, would be `Are you prepared to guarantee that you would fight for THIS country if ever the need arose? If the answer is no, I would suggest they go find somewhere else to `migrate' to.

[Digga]

JagLover said:

the question is how many actually pay enough tax and NI to pay for their costs to the state.

Exactly, without the power of levitation, you need to use the transport infrastructure, then there's health (must at least have visited a GP?), education, leisure etc. etc.

[MDMetal]

Pan Pan Pan said:

One of the facets of the current migration crises, I have thought about, is why are the men of the various countries fleeing to other countries, with the UK being considered a prime destination?
I wonder what would have happened to the UK, if during WW2, all the young men of fighting age here in the UK, had decided to simply f*ck off and flee to another country when this country was presented with the massive threat posed by Hitler? (and leaving their women and children behind to take whatever Hitler would have dished out once he had walked in)
If they cared about their country, and wives and children, why did they not fight to protect them, rather than just run, leaving them all behind?
My first question to any of them trying to get in, would be `Are you prepared to guarantee that you would fight for THIS country if ever the need arose? If the answer is no, I would suggest they go find somewhere else to `migrate' to.

I can see the PH masses all assembling for a pointless war if the need ever arose, all those powerful directors would be driving their flash cars straight to the recruitment office.... not

[MDMetal]

Digga said:

JagLover said:

the question is how many actually pay enough tax and NI to pay for their costs to the state.

Exactly, without the power of levitation, you need to use the transport infrastructure, then there's health (must at least have visited a GP?), education, leisure etc. etc.

Then kick out the scroungers who were born here too, Really I'd rather a foreigner who tried had the chance vs someone who didn't even try and plodded along at the bottom forever. Surely what we're advocating here is the age old approach of send the poor to America and the criminals to Australia? Problem solved right?

[SilverSixer]

Pan Pan Pan said:

One of the facets of the current migration crises, I have thought about, is why are the men of the various countries fleeing to other countries, with the UK being considered a prime destination?
I wonder what would have happened to the UK, if during WW2, all the young men of fighting age here in the UK, had decided to simply f*ck off and flee to another country when this country was presented with the massive threat posed by Hitler? (and leaving their women and children behind to take whatever Hitler would have dished out once he had walked in)
If they cared about their country, and wives and children, why did they not fight to protect them, rather than just run, leaving them all behind?
My first question to any of them trying to get in, would be `Are you prepared to guarantee that you would fight for THIS country if ever the need arose? If the answer is no, I would suggest they go find somewhere else to `migrate' to.

Have you ever considerd the fact that the countries they're leaving probably weren't worth fighting for under their current despotic/religious regimes, and that people have very little hope of ever creating countries worth living in and fighting for given the proxy wars which will continue endlessley there between the US, Saudis, Russians, local despots etc? To compare this situation to the UK v Hitler is fatuous.

[Digga]

MDMetal said:

Digga said:

JagLover said:

the question is how many actually pay enough tax and NI to pay for their costs to the state.

Exactly, without the power of levitation, you need to use the transport infrastructure, then there's health (must at least have visited a GP?), education, leisure etc. etc.

Then kick out the scroungers who were born here too, Really I'd rather a foreigner who tried had the chance vs someone who didn't even try and plodded along at the bottom forever. Surely what we're advocating here is the age old approach of send the poor to America and the criminals to Australia? Problem solved right?

So if your house was flooded and the drain blocked, you wouldn't think it daft to turn all the taps on?

No idea what logic you are arguing there. How about looking at numbers and saying that if we were better able to chose who immigrates (as distinct from refugees) here, we might actually be much better off, rather than simply being compelled to take people from a certain place 9i.e. EU) and thereby having to restrict numbers from places where immigrants may have significant skills required for the economy?

[DavidJG]

SilverSixer said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

One of the facets of the current migration crises, I have thought about, is why are the men of the various countries fleeing to other countries, with the UK being considered a prime destination?
I wonder what would have happened to the UK, if during WW2, all the young men of fighting age here in the UK, had decided to simply f*ck off and flee to another country when this country was presented with the massive threat posed by Hitler? (and leaving their women and children behind to take whatever Hitler would have dished out once he had walked in)
If they cared about their country, and wives and children, why did they not fight to protect them, rather than just run, leaving them all behind?
My first question to any of them trying to get in, would be `Are you prepared to guarantee that you would fight for THIS country if ever the need arose? If the answer is no, I would suggest they go find somewhere else to `migrate' to.

Have you ever considerd the fact that the countries they're leaving probably weren't worth fighting for under their current despotic/religious regimes, and that people have very little hope of ever creating countries worth living in and fighting for given the proxy wars which will continue endlessley there between the US, Saudis, Russians, local despots etc? To compare this situation to the UK v Hitler is fatuous.

We also have to consider that 'migrants' covers a diverse range of people. The kippers tend to demonise migrants from within the EU. In fact, most migrants from the EU come here to work and work hard - and contribute to our society. If you took the Romanian and Polish Consultants out of my local hospital, there would be no-one to staff the Acute Medical Unit (and they speak perfect English). There may be a very small percentage who'd claim benefits, but compared to the number of native Brits who choose benefits as a lifestyle the bill for these people is tiny. In my mind, I'd quite like to export the people who choose benefits as a lifestyle, and import people who want to work. Tell me: why would anyone demonise people who come here to work and contribute to our society?

The second type of migrant are those fleeing countries such as Iraq and Syria. They're a very different group, and frankly I don't know the best solution for these people. The vast majority are fleeing a very real humanitarian crisis caused by the rise of IS. Would you want to remain in a country being terrorised by IS?? However, this group also contains a small but significant number of IS supporters, opportunists, and generally less than decent people. A minority, but present none the less. This is where we have a problem. As a wealthy, developed nation I can't help but feel that we should be trying to assist people fleeing IS. Unfortunately, we may be unwittingly helping the IS supporters within that group. This is the real problem for me - how to help the genuine refugees whilst ensuring that we don't unwittingly help terrorists & criminals..... I don't have an answer to this one.

[JagLover]

DavidJG said:

We also have to consider that 'migrants' covers a diverse range of people. The kippers tend to demonise migrants from within the EU. In fact, most migrants from the EU come here to work and work hard - and contribute to our society. If you took the Romanian and Polish Consultants out of my local hospital, there would be no-one to staff the Acute Medical Unit (and they speak perfect English). There may be a very small percentage who'd claim benefits, but compared to the number of native Brits who choose benefits as a lifestyle the bill for these people is tiny. In my mind, I'd quite like to export the people who choose benefits as a lifestyle, and import people who want to work. Tell me: why would anyone demonise people who come here to work and contribute to our society?
.

I don't really think you can categorise it as EU migrants good, non-EU bad.

Yes up until 2011 (based on the 2011 census) EU migrants had far better statistics for percentage in employment than non-EU (far, far better for some communities). But as already pointed out being in employment does not automatically make one a net-contributor.

This was before Romania and Bulgaria joined who both are poorer and have a potentially very problematic minority. Also that does not mean we would not be far better off with a points style VISA system to ensure we only had the top third or so of those we have admitted.

[MDMetal]

It's hilarious that a previous poster who said life in their area was fine despite all this terrible immigration and was told that was a small minded view given others concerns "all fine over here jack" and yet the fundamental argument people seem to be using with immigration is that we'd be better off without them. Ironic or what? Yes times are hard but we're not about to turn into a third world country and a majority of people who come here do so from worst places. If the roles we're reversed you'd all be screaming to prove yourselves capable of working and contributing in a foreign country blah blah.

There's plenty of serious questions about who we let in and why but the little englander views people seem intent on trumpeting just drag any possible sensible debate away. We seriously have to argue about foreigner's being good or bad, lazy or hard working instead of sensible issues. As everyone's already pointed out free movement is here to stay.

[DavidJG]

MDMetal said:

There's plenty of serious questions about who we let in and why but the little englander views people seem intent on trumpeting just drag any possible sensible debate away. We seriously have to argue about foreigner's being good or bad, lazy or hard working instead of sensible issues. As everyone's already pointed out free movement is here to stay.

And free movement within the EU benefits everyone if people can only look past their terror / hatred for anyone who appears to be in any way different. Maybe at some future point free movement will even become global - but that probably won't be within my lifetime unfortunately.