How many Romanian/Bulgarian migrants are you predicting?
Poll: How many Romanian/Bulgarian migrants are you predicting?
Total Members Polled: 517
Discussion
DavidJG said:
And free movement within the EU benefits everyone if people can only look past their terror / hatred for anyone who appears to be in any way different. Maybe at some future point free movement will even become global - but that probably won't be within my lifetime unfortunately.
sorry, that's just ideological bulls
t.free movement of people in a world where you have abject poverty and constant civil wars going on vs. the rich/peaceful/developed countries is simply never going to work.
go back in history, Lebanon was a beautiful place, very prosperous, people wanted to live there, now look at it, it's a war ravaged s
t hole.you think free-movement of people there was a good idea?
I have to quite Trump, but walls work (even metaphorical ones)
I don't see global free movement unless some how the world drags itself up to being broadly economical equal. While it's not, there is no way total open door immigration would work with ever more systems of expensive health care, pensions, benefits and the move to ever more reliance on the state and its safety net.
It's sure going to be interesting if something comes out of the official immigration stats and the NI numbers being given out. I feel rather stupid for thinking the immigration numbers were actually based on some hard data, rather than surveys.
It's sure going to be interesting if something comes out of the official immigration stats and the NI numbers being given out. I feel rather stupid for thinking the immigration numbers were actually based on some hard data, rather than surveys.
DavidJG said:
MDMetal said:
There's plenty of serious questions about who we let in and why but the little englander views people seem intent on trumpeting just drag any possible sensible debate away. We seriously have to argue about foreigner's being good or bad, lazy or hard working instead of sensible issues. As everyone's already pointed out free movement is here to stay.
And free movement within the EU benefits everyone if people can only look past their terror / hatred for anyone who appears to be in any way different. Maybe at some future point free movement will even become global - but that probably won't be within my lifetime unfortunately.People from third world or relatively third world countries 'most' with little or no education will flock to anywhere for the chance of a better life which is understandable.
Open border policies will just drain our resources and over stretch our increasingly fragile infrastructure.
For example, 500m potential people have complete access to our NHS for free and yet have contributed the square root of FA! No wonder they are over stretched and under funded now. It's a problem that will get worse and worse.
digimeistter said:
<snip>
For example, 500m potential people have complete access to our NHS for free and yet have contributed the square root of FA! No wonder they are over stretched and under funded now. It's a problem that will get worse and worse.
evidence of this please ...For example, 500m potential people have complete access to our NHS for free and yet have contributed the square root of FA! No wonder they are over stretched and under funded now. It's a problem that will get worse and worse.
as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
mph1977 said:
evidence of this please ...
as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
Problem here is those figure are about as accurate as the migration stats out of the ONS - ie. guesswork.as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
SilverSixer said:
Have you ever considerd the fact that the countries they're leaving probably weren't worth fighting for under their current despotic/religious regimes, and that people have very little hope of ever creating countries worth living in and fighting for given the proxy wars which will continue endlessley there between the US, Saudis, Russians, local despots etc? To compare this situation to the UK v Hitler is fatuous.
And yet they are trying to turn us in to the countries that weren't worth fighting for.Spend some time in Romania about 10 years ago.
At the time even 1 hour out of Bucharest....the most pristine road arteries resolved into dirt track.
What I saw in other cities was eye opening.
If I was Romanian... living there.... and I heard about coming to Germany, UK etc etc.
I would walk it, hitch etc etc
The poverty was breathtaking.
Whatever politicians tell you.... if someone has nothing - and they have the prospect of roof over head, child benefit etc etc etc
They will come - and keep on coming.
The idea of the EU was to provide a lot of investment and infrastructure to developing countries to raise the standard of living there.
That has changed.... it is now about moving cheap migrant labour to developed countries to keep costs low.
At the time even 1 hour out of Bucharest....the most pristine road arteries resolved into dirt track.
What I saw in other cities was eye opening.
If I was Romanian... living there.... and I heard about coming to Germany, UK etc etc.
I would walk it, hitch etc etc
The poverty was breathtaking.
Whatever politicians tell you.... if someone has nothing - and they have the prospect of roof over head, child benefit etc etc etc
They will come - and keep on coming.
The idea of the EU was to provide a lot of investment and infrastructure to developing countries to raise the standard of living there.
That has changed.... it is now about moving cheap migrant labour to developed countries to keep costs low.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Friday 26th February 18:55
mph1977 said:
evidence of this please ...
as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
Ok Googlewizard, I will tell you some figures I do know for a fact!as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
I currently have 787 people registered looking for rented accommodation, of which, 486 are foreign nationals. Now don't get me wrong, this is not racist in fact quite the opposite, our best tenants are mainly eastern European sadly.
However, they all claim tax credits, child benefit (some housing benefit), NHS hospital and dental care.
Like I said it's about infrastructure.
Scuffers said:
mph1977 said:
evidence of this please ...
as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
Problem here is those figure are about as accurate as the migration stats out of the ONS - ie. guesswork.as the NHS's own guidance says otherwise
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-v...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidanc...
JagLover said:
It is the wrong question
We live in an advanced nation with expensive public services and the earnings of the low paid topped up via inwork benefits.
So the question is not how many do no work and just claim benefits (slightly less for EU migrants than indigenous whites) the question is how many actually pay enough tax and NI to pay for their costs to the state.
Well, if it gives you any comfort We live in an advanced nation with expensive public services and the earnings of the low paid topped up via inwork benefits.
So the question is not how many do no work and just claim benefits (slightly less for EU migrants than indigenous whites) the question is how many actually pay enough tax and NI to pay for their costs to the state.
... which it probably won't ... my US employer is always desperate to find IT recruits in the UK. Since Romania's accession to the EU we've been able to include their universities in our recruitment drives. In a dept of roughly a hundred almost all male developers we've managed to add half a dozen Romanian grads including two women, and two of our most competent developers were already Romanian women. They're all young (so they cost the UK bugger all to host) and they're all well paid so are paying a tonne of income tax and spend in the local economy. They are big net contributors to the UK economy. And it's worth pointing out that our ability to access the Romanian labour market is part of the reason that a US firm chooses to invest in the UK. Wittering on about "points based systems" comes as no comfort at all to an employer that has first hand experience of trying to relocate skilled specialists into the US; it takes forever and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. We will put ourselves at a huge competitive disadvantage to the rest of the EU if we choose to forgo the opportunity to tap the entire EU labour market cheaply and efficiently.
Edited by ATG on Friday 26th February 19:45
ATG said:
Well, if it gives you any comfort
... which it probably won't ... my US employer is always desperate to find IT recruits in the UK. Since Romania's accession to the EU we've been able to include their universities in our recruitment drives. In a dept of roughly a hundred almost all male developers we've managed to add half a dozen Romanian grads including two women, and two of our most competent developers were already Romanian women. They're all young (so they cost the UK bugger all to host) and they're all well paid so are paying a tonne of income tax and spend in the local economy. They are big net contributors to the UK economy. And it's worth pointing out that our ability to access the Romanian labour market is part of the reason that a US firm chooses to invest in the UK. Wittering on about "points based systems" comes as no comfort at all to an employer that has first hand experience of trying to relocate skilled specialists into the US; it takes forever and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. We will put ourselves at a huge competitive disadvantage to the rest of the EU if we choose to forgo the opportunity to tap the entire EU labour market cheaply and efficiently.
The firm where I worked brought in a Polish accounts trainee, who had impressed us while doing work experience, before Polish workers had free movement of Labour here and so they had to get him a working VISA and didn't have any particular difficulty doing so. ... which it probably won't ... my US employer is always desperate to find IT recruits in the UK. Since Romania's accession to the EU we've been able to include their universities in our recruitment drives. In a dept of roughly a hundred almost all male developers we've managed to add half a dozen Romanian grads including two women, and two of our most competent developers were already Romanian women. They're all young (so they cost the UK bugger all to host) and they're all well paid so are paying a tonne of income tax and spend in the local economy. They are big net contributors to the UK economy. And it's worth pointing out that our ability to access the Romanian labour market is part of the reason that a US firm chooses to invest in the UK. Wittering on about "points based systems" comes as no comfort at all to an employer that has first hand experience of trying to relocate skilled specialists into the US; it takes forever and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. We will put ourselves at a huge competitive disadvantage to the rest of the EU if we choose to forgo the opportunity to tap the entire EU labour market cheaply and efficiently.
Edited by ATG on Friday 26th February 19:45
Skilled workers are welcome most places in the developed world and if we didn't have to offer free movement to all and sundry then there would be more appetite to increase both highly skilled VISA numbers and to reverse some of the recent changes making it more difficult for foreign graduates to stay and find work after they finish their degree.
Recent population growth is simply unacceptable in such a small island and as long as hundreds of thousands have to be admitted with no quality controls then we will start to potentially miss out on immigrants who could bring a genuine economic benefit.
You mention the US perhaps if immigration hadn't become such a hot political issue due to millions of illegal migrants you might have had a more sensible quota for the H-1B programme.
JagLover said:
ATG said:
Well, if it gives you any comfort
... which it probably won't ... my US employer is always desperate to find IT recruits in the UK. Since Romania's accession to the EU we've been able to include their universities in our recruitment drives. In a dept of roughly a hundred almost all male developers we've managed to add half a dozen Romanian grads including two women, and two of our most competent developers were already Romanian women. They're all young (so they cost the UK bugger all to host) and they're all well paid so are paying a tonne of income tax and spend in the local economy. They are big net contributors to the UK economy. And it's worth pointing out that our ability to access the Romanian labour market is part of the reason that a US firm chooses to invest in the UK. Wittering on about "points based systems" comes as no comfort at all to an employer that has first hand experience of trying to relocate skilled specialists into the US; it takes forever and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. We will put ourselves at a huge competitive disadvantage to the rest of the EU if we choose to forgo the opportunity to tap the entire EU labour market cheaply and efficiently.
The firm where I worked brought in a Polish accounts trainee, who had impressed us while doing work experience, before Polish workers had free movement of Labour here and so they had to get him a working VISA and didn't have any particular difficulty doing so. ... which it probably won't ... my US employer is always desperate to find IT recruits in the UK. Since Romania's accession to the EU we've been able to include their universities in our recruitment drives. In a dept of roughly a hundred almost all male developers we've managed to add half a dozen Romanian grads including two women, and two of our most competent developers were already Romanian women. They're all young (so they cost the UK bugger all to host) and they're all well paid so are paying a tonne of income tax and spend in the local economy. They are big net contributors to the UK economy. And it's worth pointing out that our ability to access the Romanian labour market is part of the reason that a US firm chooses to invest in the UK. Wittering on about "points based systems" comes as no comfort at all to an employer that has first hand experience of trying to relocate skilled specialists into the US; it takes forever and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. We will put ourselves at a huge competitive disadvantage to the rest of the EU if we choose to forgo the opportunity to tap the entire EU labour market cheaply and efficiently.
Edited by ATG on Friday 26th February 19:45
Skilled workers are welcome most places in the developed world and if we didn't have to offer free movement to all and sundry then there would be more appetite to increase both highly skilled VISA numbers and to reverse some of the recent changes making it more difficult for foreign graduates to stay and find work after they finish their degree.
Recent population growth is simply unacceptable in such a small island and as long as hundreds of thousands have to be admitted with no quality controls then we will start to potentially miss out on immigrants who could bring a genuine economic benefit.
You mention the US perhaps if immigration hadn't become such a hot political issue due to millions of illegal migrants you might have had a more sensible quota for the H-1B programme.
Saw a program recently where a mining business has to process hundreds of thousands of tons
of rock to extract a few ounces of diamonds, which apparently is still a financially viable operation.
What ATG wants is for the UK to accept hundreds of thousands of immigrants with no quality controls, just so his company can extract the few who will be of economic benefit to his company, with the UK taxpayer picking up the cost of keeping all those `his' company cannot use. An EU biased trougher if ever there was one.
porridge said:
how many do you think we will get over 3 years or so?
Here we are "3 years or so" on and we have an estimate of the numbers: 2014: net migration from the two countries = 44,000.
2015: 65,000
2016 (first 9 months): 74,000.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/23/eu-migr...
Some suggest that these figures aren't accurate because the numbers from these nations registering for National Insurance numbers are much higher.
Even if we assume the figures are 50% out that still isn't the "millions" predicted to come from certain quarters in this country.
Did we get it wrong?
BlackLabel said:
Here we are "3 years or so" on and we have an estimate of the numbers:
2014: net migration from the two countries = 44,000.
2015: 65,000
2016 (first 9 months): 74,000.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/23/eu-migr...
Some suggest that these figures aren't accurate because the numbers from these nations registering for National Insurance numbers are much higher.
Even if we assume the figures are 50% out that still isn't the "millions" predicted to come from certain quarters in this country.
Did we get it wrong?
Who predicted 'millions' and in what time scale ? 2014: net migration from the two countries = 44,000.
2015: 65,000
2016 (first 9 months): 74,000.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/23/eu-migr...
Some suggest that these figures aren't accurate because the numbers from these nations registering for National Insurance numbers are much higher.
Even if we assume the figures are 50% out that still isn't the "millions" predicted to come from certain quarters in this country.
Did we get it wrong?
Pan Pan Pan said:
Saw a program recently where a mining business has to process hundreds of thousands of tons
of rock to extract a few ounces of diamonds, which apparently is still a financially viable operation.
What ATG wants is for the UK to accept hundreds of thousands of immigrants with no quality controls, just so his company can extract the few who will be of economic benefit to his company, with the UK taxpayer picking up the cost of keeping all those `his' company cannot use. An EU biased trougher if ever there was one.
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