How many Romanian/Bulgarian migrants are you predicting?
Poll: How many Romanian/Bulgarian migrants are you predicting?
Total Members Polled: 517
Discussion
blindswelledrat said:
porridge said:
Ok, lets go with it.
"Surver says" small benefit which will be reversed as the migrants will be get older, and that is before these two poorer countries and our stopping of better qualified non-eu migrants to reduce the overall numbers.
Survey didn't say reversed did it now?"Surver says" small benefit which will be reversed as the migrants will be get older, and that is before these two poorer countries and our stopping of better qualified non-eu migrants to reduce the overall numbers.
Making this into family fortunes doesn't actually make your statement right, which it isn't.
Todays up-to-date example- one non-eu migrant with two Masters degree, played by the rules and due to open EU borders requiring Tory "overall reduction" stats manipulation, being asked to leave.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fury...
KFC said:
I can't imagine any of them doing very well from begging? They seem to be hated by everyone, who's going to give them money?
Have you been to Paris recently? we were constantly approached by the "deaf mute" charity scam where they pretend to be unable to hear or speak and be collecting for a charity using a fake charity form. Aside from collecting these donations they also pickpocket whilst you are filling in the form. See vid for example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4uwuQ-uZqU
In a documentary, they were filmed dressing up to look like Muslims before heading to beg outside Mosques, perfectly timed for Muslims leaving Friday prayers.
They are creative and will sink very low.
Edited by porridge on Thursday 14th November 10:43
Fantic SuperT said:
I think you answered part of my question adequately. If a hard-core criminal (I named an example) has eight children, who then go on to produce 64 promising footballers heavily involved in crime and living off benefits they cannot be counted in the cost of immigration. Nor could the 512 promising footballers they produce. In fact they will be used as an example of how lazy and work-shy the indigenous population is compared to hard-working immigrants.
2nd and 3rd generation are counted as indigenous not immigrants. Bearing in mind that for every "innit bruv" there are 10 or more hard working Mo Farah's, so not sure what your argument is? Just like working class white chavs, often the problem is due to single parents, lack of role models, social mobility etc and needs addressing.The issue 'today' is a different one, one of open borders and instant welfare support for these 2 countries.
Edited by porridge on Thursday 14th November 10:55
Fantic SuperT said:
I'm assuming that 1:10 ratio you cite is not based on any actual figures I could check, and ignores the fact Mo Farah's brother was arrested during the riots the year before we celebrated watching black people running around in London.
Not that simple - we use all the psychological tricks in the book to advertise the 'high life' consumerism to kids with a crap upbringing, in a country with woeful social mobility, where they see bankers rewarded for their greed, in a city with ridiculous extremes of wealth. In Salford and Manchester the rioters were white.
Fantic SuperT said:
My arguments are that the figures provided for the cost vs. benefit of immigration do not include crime, or the ripple through time towards infinity from their offspring who also fail to integrate.
As discussed that at length yesterday on the thread, end result was that lefties such as BSR just won't accept past immigration isn't doing amazingly well for us, the rest of us can add up 
Fantic SuperT said:
How can anyone expect a few generations living off crime and welfare in Britain to be any different? This is a social experiment at the expense of the hapless people the politicians can rely on to never take action beyond shouting at their televisions, or blogging.
Not many expect this, do expect an awful lot of money to be thrown at the problem through social workers etc that could be spent elsewhere.Edited by porridge on Thursday 14th November 12:09
Down with this sort of thing!
Nick Clegg said:
Roma communities must avoid “intimidating” local residents and be “sensitive to the way that life is lived in this country,” Nick Clegg has said.
The deputy Prime Minister described tensions between Roma immigrants and established communities in Slough and Sheffield as a “real dilemma” adding that people find some of their behaviour “offensive” and “difficult to accept.”
Nick Cleggg also raised Mr Blunkett’s concerns about “large numbers of people hanging around outside in streets” in areas of Sheffield. Adding that those Roma “intimidating” local residents “listen to what to the people in the community have to say.”
Speaking on LBC Radio’s regular Call Clegg slot he said: “There is a real dilemma… when you get communities coming into a part of our country and they behave in a way that people find quite difficult to accept, and they behave in a way that people find sometimes intimidating, sometimes offensive I think its quite right that we should say… if you are going to come and live here and you are bringing up a family here you’ve got to be sensitive to the way that life is lived in this country.”
The deputy Prime Minister described tensions between Roma immigrants and established communities in Slough and Sheffield as a “real dilemma” adding that people find some of their behaviour “offensive” and “difficult to accept.”
Nick Cleggg also raised Mr Blunkett’s concerns about “large numbers of people hanging around outside in streets” in areas of Sheffield. Adding that those Roma “intimidating” local residents “listen to what to the people in the community have to say.”
Speaking on LBC Radio’s regular Call Clegg slot he said: “There is a real dilemma… when you get communities coming into a part of our country and they behave in a way that people find quite difficult to accept, and they behave in a way that people find sometimes intimidating, sometimes offensive I think its quite right that we should say… if you are going to come and live here and you are bringing up a family here you’ve got to be sensitive to the way that life is lived in this country.”
Nick Clegg said:
When pressed about the likely impact of Bulgarians and Romanians coming to the UK at the turn of the year, Clegg refused to make any prediction, citing the failure of the previous Labour government to judge the impact of opening the doors to eight eastern European countries in 2004, which was earlier than required by the EU. The former Labour home secretary Jack Straw described the policy as a "spectacular mistake" this week.
Clegg said: "The lesson we've learned from the previous government is, don't make loads of predictions that turn out to be completely untrue, because that is what destroys or undermines public confidence even further".
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/14/nick-clegg-roma-community-sheffield-migrants-britainClegg said: "The lesson we've learned from the previous government is, don't make loads of predictions that turn out to be completely untrue, because that is what destroys or undermines public confidence even further".
Edited by porridge on Thursday 14th November 14:36
Mr GrimNasty said:
BBC news in some Sheffield 'ghetto',
...the immigrant population that has driven out the indigenous, complaining about being driven out by the Roma.
How deliciously ironic.
Except the origins of that population was an open invitation to them in the1950 ish era to come and work in the manufacturing industries that existed at the time. A bit different....the immigrant population that has driven out the indigenous, complaining about being driven out by the Roma.
How deliciously ironic.
Smiler. said:
Did I just hear on R4 that the local Aisian community in Slough are calling for a cap on immigration? All these Romanian foreigners turning up, can't speak English, hanging around in groups, don't have a job.
No, I can't have.
They were asians born here and identify as Brits. If from former colonies such as India then a lot of their parents would have spoken some English and adapted quickly here- remember was little issues with jobs in those factory times so they paid there rents and mortgages rather than getting instant free housing. I've found Pakistani's tend to be more home orientated e.g. marrying someone from back there who can't speak English. No, I can't have.
Saying that immigrants never want more immigrants and the Poles in the Uk when asked are also against any more driving wages down further.
Did you hear the Roma spokesman
Presenter: Why is there litter, groups gathering on streets etc
Spokesman: They have been persecuted so much blah bla
Presenter: But how is that out fault
Spokesman: It isn't but it is not their fault. They are not used to rubbish collection and don't know it will be collected....
Surprisingly even The Guardian has published a critical piece on the Roma
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/15/she...
Smiler. said:
I heard it all. Your opening statement is a bit naive imo, but if that's your opinion/experience, then it is what it is. Mine
(experience/opinion) is a bit different.
What is your experience? specifically of the radio interviewee who said that (i.e. a brit born shop owner with perfect English rather than a one of the Asian types who fail to integrate and live entirely in their own community).(experience/opinion) is a bit different.
As he said on the radio, his father came over and worked hard in the factories and only due to this he was able to own this shop. Knowing this type of Asian, chances are he is paying for additional tuition for his kids and will push them to do the best they can in school and get decent careers. He is entitled to say what he said imo, and if asked about those many Asians who fail to integrate, I doubt he would have positive things to say.
dandarez said:
Brum?
Google: Page Hall Sheffield Roma.
'Boiling pot ready to explode'.
Think he is referring to Brum Social Services failing Ofsted inspection seven times over last few years http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10380523/...Google: Page Hall Sheffield Roma.
'Boiling pot ready to explode'.
Mermaid said:
The government is happy to predict/estimate nearly everything imaginable.
But not how many of these economic migrants will descend on the UK, the known unknown or is it the unknown, unknown EC wide. So how do you plan for this event?
In 2011 the Government claimed that “relatively few” Roma had settled here at 49,000. Last month a report published by the University of Salford "conservatively" estimated at least 200,000 - one of the largest in Europe and still growing.But not how many of these economic migrants will descend on the UK, the known unknown or is it the unknown, unknown EC wide. So how do you plan for this event?
The Government don't want to plan as they know they can't, they are well aware that the only sane thing to do is to cap the numbers of EU migrants based on the jobs available to their skills and make benefits access tougher.
Another grim report on Page Hall:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...
blindswelledrat said:
KFC said:
But the Roma all have Romanian passports, so how else can you actually deal with the problem than just count them all as the same?
are.
Is that true? I'm not saying you're wrong but I can't find anything to support that at all. are.
Economist: said:
“IF Romania and Bulgaria insist on a vote, the attempt will fail because of a German veto," said Hans-Peter Friedrich, the German minister of the interior in an interview with the news website of Der Spiegel, a German weekly. Both countries must take further steps to prevent migrants abusing the system, Mr Friedrich added.
....
Even so, another Schengen membership postponement is a setback for Romania. As long as the Romanian parliament continues to block the prosecution for corruption charges of high-profile politicians and Romanians rely on bribes to solve their daily problems, the country’s integration into the EU will not be completed.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/03/romania-and-eu....
Even so, another Schengen membership postponement is a setback for Romania. As long as the Romanian parliament continues to block the prosecution for corruption charges of high-profile politicians and Romanians rely on bribes to solve their daily problems, the country’s integration into the EU will not be completed.
blindswelledrat said:
But I sill don't get why everyone is going on about the Romas?
collectively the rest of Europe have many times the number of them than Romania and they haven't flooded over here. What makes us assume Romanias gypsies will?
Roma are currently in the spotlight as a perfect example of the madness of an Open Borders policy.collectively the rest of Europe have many times the number of them than Romania and they haven't flooded over here. What makes us assume Romanias gypsies will?
blindswelledrat said:
Art0ir said:
And I fail to see what is controversial about calling Romania a corrupt s
t hole.
Because like all racist remarks, it is a gross generalisation with no basis in fact.t hole.If you could support the comment with facts and figures which proved it - then it would be a valid opinion and arguably make it a correct statement.
If you say it with no other evidence than you think it then it is merely a racist prejudice.
Surely that is obvious?
Here is a fact for you: Romania has not been allowed into Schengen DESPITE meeting the technical requirements, because of corruption. Its European Neighbours will not allow it to have Passport Free Acess as they cannot be trusted.
Stop with your leftie prejudices, read up and accept it.
blindswelledrat said:
porridge said:
Seems everyone but you (and the rest of you left hippies) are fully aware that Romania is corrupt.
Here is a fact for you: Romania has not been allowed into Schengen DESPITE meeting the technical requirements, because of corruption. Its European Neighbours will not allow it to have Passport Free Acess as they cannot be trusted.
Stop with your leftie prejudices, read up and accept it.
Unbelievable. Here is a fact for you: Romania has not been allowed into Schengen DESPITE meeting the technical requirements, because of corruption. Its European Neighbours will not allow it to have Passport Free Acess as they cannot be trusted.
Stop with your leftie prejudices, read up and accept it.
I am perfectly prepared to listen to a decent argument.
You, unfortunately- just write lies.
Lets take that statement
"Romania has not been allowed into Schengen": Exactly the opposite is true. It is compulsory for them to join
"desite meeting technical requirement, because of corruption": Again untrue. Nothing at all I can find suggests that corruption is why it doesn't meet the criteria in the 4 key areas.
"Its European Neighbours will not allow it to have Passport Free Acess as they cannot be trusted" Again, seemingly untrue. WHat does that even mean "cannot be trusted"?
If you are going to spout crap like that then at least link to something that supports it.
You have accused me of being a liar- I would like an apology.
Jose Manual Barroso recently said to French TV station said:
“Romania and Bulgaria will not enter the Schengen area because there are countries that are against,” said the EC president.
Economist said:
“IF Romania and Bulgaria insist on a vote, the attempt will fail because of a German veto," said Hans-Peter Friedrich, the German minister of the interior in an interview with the news website of Der Spiegel, a German weekly. Both countries must take further steps to prevent migrants abusing the system, Mr Friedrich added.
...Thanks to Mr Friedrich’s warning, Victor Ponta (pictured above), Romania’s prime minister, decided not to insist on a vote on the issue at the summit. Traian Băsescu, the president, agreed with the government’s position, but insisted that the country should ask for a new deadline either in September or December this year. “Romania’s major aim is to get into the Schengen zone and no sacrifice should be big enough to make this happen, not even sacrificing the country’s corrupted people”, he said. Mr Băsescu added at least seven countries oppose his country’s membership in the Schengen zone mainly because of the report by the EU’s Mechanism for Cooperation and Verification (CVM on the (lack of) progress on judicial reform and the fight against corruption in Romania.
In the latest CVM report published in January this year, the European Commission criticised Romania for failing to meet demands on protecting democracy and the rule of law and urged the government to accelerate its reforms. The report underlines that the justice system had to face political pressure and anti-corruption prosecutors were undermined. The Commissioned expressed concerns regarding “the lack of respect for the independence of the judiciary and the instability faced by judicial institutions.”
It is not the first time Romania is denied access to the Schengen area. Bucharest has been trying to acquire membership for the last three years. In 2012, the Netherlands oppose Romania's admission, arguing that the previous CVM report, published last July, didn’t show enough progress. This report was released in the middle of a political crisis that damaged Romania’s credibility. In 2010, France was the first country to point out that Romania and Bulgaria are not ready yet to join the Schengen zone. Pierre Lellouche, who back then was France’s state secretary for European affairs, expressed his concern about the Romanian-Moldovan border "because of the distribution of Romanian passports outside their border".
...Even so, another Schengen membership postponement is a setback for Romania. As long as the Romanian parliament continues to block the prosecution for corruption charges of high-profile politicians and Romanians rely on bribes to solve their daily problems, the country’s integration into the EU will not be completed.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/03/romania-and-eu...Thanks to Mr Friedrich’s warning, Victor Ponta (pictured above), Romania’s prime minister, decided not to insist on a vote on the issue at the summit. Traian Băsescu, the president, agreed with the government’s position, but insisted that the country should ask for a new deadline either in September or December this year. “Romania’s major aim is to get into the Schengen zone and no sacrifice should be big enough to make this happen, not even sacrificing the country’s corrupted people”, he said. Mr Băsescu added at least seven countries oppose his country’s membership in the Schengen zone mainly because of the report by the EU’s Mechanism for Cooperation and Verification (CVM on the (lack of) progress on judicial reform and the fight against corruption in Romania.
In the latest CVM report published in January this year, the European Commission criticised Romania for failing to meet demands on protecting democracy and the rule of law and urged the government to accelerate its reforms. The report underlines that the justice system had to face political pressure and anti-corruption prosecutors were undermined. The Commissioned expressed concerns regarding “the lack of respect for the independence of the judiciary and the instability faced by judicial institutions.”
It is not the first time Romania is denied access to the Schengen area. Bucharest has been trying to acquire membership for the last three years. In 2012, the Netherlands oppose Romania's admission, arguing that the previous CVM report, published last July, didn’t show enough progress. This report was released in the middle of a political crisis that damaged Romania’s credibility. In 2010, France was the first country to point out that Romania and Bulgaria are not ready yet to join the Schengen zone. Pierre Lellouche, who back then was France’s state secretary for European affairs, expressed his concern about the Romanian-Moldovan border "because of the distribution of Romanian passports outside their border".
...Even so, another Schengen membership postponement is a setback for Romania. As long as the Romanian parliament continues to block the prosecution for corruption charges of high-profile politicians and Romanians rely on bribes to solve their daily problems, the country’s integration into the EU will not be completed.
Man up and apologies for calling me a liar, when you were too lazy to check out a fact
Art0ir said:
odyssey2200 said:
BSR has only one intention, to get this thread locked.
He has committed to proving me a racist now, although I appreciate the cards are stacked against him so would understand if he bowed out silently.
Expected more from someone with 20 thousand odd posts.blindswelledrat said:
Artoir has proved me wrong and I am happy to be proved wrong.
The reason you keep getting proved wrong, is that you wish to be spoon fed rather than pro actively finding out the truth. Why can you not research something you feel is wrong and quote your own facts rather than demand others to do so?Didn't realise we 'lent' money to Eu students, why on earth are they not getting it from their home country. Last years bill was over £100M adding up to £400M in the last 6 years.
How much will be paid back...
How much will be paid back...
Telegraph said:
Student loans to Bulgarians and Romanians frozen
Student loans to Bulgarians and Romanians have been frozen after a “suspicious” surge in the number enrolling at British colleges.
David Willetts, the Universities Minister, said he had suspended loans to students from the two countries after an unusual increase in the number receiving support from the Student Loans Company (SLC). As many as three quarters of the students involved have so far failed to prove they are entitled to their loans, sources said.
...All European Union citizens are allowed to apply for a loan to cover their tuition fees. This means that while Bulgarians and Romanians are not allowed to work in the UK, they can study here.
However, only EU citizens who have lived in the UK for three years are entitled to student support grants to cover their living expenses while they study.
Mr Willetts told MPs: “We identified that there had been a significant increase in the number of Bulgarian and Romanian students applying for full student support in England this year.
“This support is usually only available to EU citizens resident in the UK for a minimum of three years. We have asked each of these students to supply additional information to support their applications for maintenance, before any further public funding is made available to them or to their institutions.”
It is understood that around 5,500 Romanians and Bulgarians have received the first instalment of cost-of-living loans this year, a big increase from last year.
..Mr Willetts said the Government had also stopped some private colleges taking on any more students for HNDs and Higher National Certificates (HNCs).
He said he had written to 23 colleges to tell them not to take any more students as there had been a rapid increase in the numbers applying for loans that cannot be afforded.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10461099/Student-loans-to-Bulgarians-and-Romanians-frozen.htmlStudent loans to Bulgarians and Romanians have been frozen after a “suspicious” surge in the number enrolling at British colleges.
David Willetts, the Universities Minister, said he had suspended loans to students from the two countries after an unusual increase in the number receiving support from the Student Loans Company (SLC). As many as three quarters of the students involved have so far failed to prove they are entitled to their loans, sources said.
...All European Union citizens are allowed to apply for a loan to cover their tuition fees. This means that while Bulgarians and Romanians are not allowed to work in the UK, they can study here.
However, only EU citizens who have lived in the UK for three years are entitled to student support grants to cover their living expenses while they study.
Mr Willetts told MPs: “We identified that there had been a significant increase in the number of Bulgarian and Romanian students applying for full student support in England this year.
“This support is usually only available to EU citizens resident in the UK for a minimum of three years. We have asked each of these students to supply additional information to support their applications for maintenance, before any further public funding is made available to them or to their institutions.”
It is understood that around 5,500 Romanians and Bulgarians have received the first instalment of cost-of-living loans this year, a big increase from last year.
..Mr Willetts said the Government had also stopped some private colleges taking on any more students for HNDs and Higher National Certificates (HNCs).
He said he had written to 23 colleges to tell them not to take any more students as there had been a rapid increase in the numbers applying for loans that cannot be afforded.
Edited by porridge on Tuesday 19th November 23:19
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