How many Romanian/Bulgarian migrants are you predicting?

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

So do you agree that the conversation I made up is ridiculous?
Do you therefore agree that from this point forward if you were to post single examples of burglars then we would be emulating that conversation given that I agree it is a flaw to a system that allows criminals in?

Before I posted the article in question, you were not aware of the issue of criminals allowed in.
After I have posted the article it has informed you otherwise.
I have made a positive contribution to your uninformed mind.

HTH

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

Not necessarily as it could be the necessary evil associated with the benefits of being in the EU.
Ill admit I don't particularly understand the benefits so are leaning slightly towards being anti EU, but equally it is fact that we are going to lose a LOT of jobs and investment in the country if we aren't in it. Again, I would need to know much more specific information before forming any kind of opinion on that

I see the EU currently as more of an abusive controlling relationship, and better to divorce and risk being a bit poorer (again debatable) and happier than be afraid to leave and let it continue to get more and more out of control. The chances of it being reformed look remote.

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

You might be right, I just don't think any of us knows enough about it to say definitively.
Completely intangible but my worry is that for the past few hundred years we have punched way above our weight on the world economic scale.
Going forwards, the world is changing and there are new superpowers. China, Russia, Europe and America - not to mention emerging states such as Brazil and one day perhaps Ukraine. I'd rather be part of that than not I think although I don't know what the exact cost is and until someone can quantify all these discussion I wouldn't like to stake my claim

But what have we actually achieved by punching above our weight in real terms? People living in small sheds with a toilet in the kitchen to satisfy greed...

Just today it is again in all the papers that the education we provide to our children is inadequate compared to global standards and worse than countries down the economic scale, so what is the point if the wealth does not get distributed as it should? We can't even afford to build a power station or a train-line without foreign investment.

[porridge]

unrepentant said:

I'm a British citizen living as a permanent resident in the USA. If I commit a felony I can be removed from the country. Does EU law allow for the deportation of EU citizens back to their home country (from another EU country) in similar circumstances or are you stuck with them?

Nope.

If jailed over 2 years then 'may' be possible but only in "Exceptional circumstances" and where the government has proven they are still dangerous.

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

Depends what we are comparing ourselves to.
Starting with comparing ourselves to countries with similar populations, give us:
Democratic Republic of Congo, Thailand, France, Burma,
I'd say quite a lot. I cant speak for the educational standards in those countries but with the exception of France I would say we've achieve quite a lot in comparison. I can't comment on you having toilets in your kitchen but for myself- none of my three toilets share space with other rooms if it's relevant

If we are doing it by size, then our competitors are: Gabon, Western Sahara, Ecuador, Guinea, Uganda, Ghana, ROmania, Laos and Guyana.
Pretty stark achievement on the world scale I would say

The toilet comment was to the news this week of a Czech guy renting a shed in England from some questionable landlord where the loo was in the middle of the kitchen.

None of comparisons in your post are fair though as they are not linked to our EU membership, we will not be turning into Uganda or Burma if we moved away from the EU, if anything it was fighting Europe in wars that kept our status. And we clearly have a very different mentality from the French, as appreciated by the Merkel when we buffer her from them.

I read last week that Norway pays 80% to the EU compared to full membership so we can take that 20% saving and continue to trade with the EU and have the freedom to explore additional relationships- look at Cameron currently in China complaining about the EU not moving on a EU-Chinese Free Trade deal.

Leaving the EU or not will come down to how much fear of "no jobs left" is instilled by the PR machines, as no one really knows how it will end up and yes whilst we could end up worse, at least we would do it by our own choice.

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

O don't agree that there is any merit in posting a link every time you see a foreign criminal though. We know now. Saying "here- another criminal" every day just doesn't really add anything, IMO

Sorry but couldn't resist

mail said:

A Big Issue seller snatched £50 from a blind pensioner who regularly gave him money despite being unable to read the magazine.

Razvan Dumitru stole the money out of the 66-year-old's purse as she tried to find a pound coin to give him.

A shocked passer-by saw what had happened and grabbed hold of the 22-year-old Romanian until police arrived at the scene.

Big Issue bosses have condemned the theft, which Dumitru admitted at Croydon Magistrates' Court. They have stripped him of his right to sell the magazine.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518127/Big-Issue-seller-stole-50-BLIND-pensioner-trying-pound-coin-him.html

[porridge]

dandarez said:

That sounds like you think it's election year next year? Or me just reading it wrong?

European Elections May 2014, UKIP will be spending the maximum allowable on campaigning, around £4.5 Million courtesy of Paul Sykes.

[porridge]

Mrr T said:

The only problem with you seem to assume the costs of living is the same there as here. Its not so comparing wages is meaningless.

They know no family will not be left homeless by a UK council so accommodation is guaranteed, same with single females.
Male Single will live ten to a small flat- easy to do short term when the money you will be earning will soon buy you a house back home.

[porridge]

Mrr T said:

porridge said:

They know no family will not be left homeless by a UK council so accommodation is guaranteed, same with single females.
Male Single will live ten to a small flat- easy to do short term when the money you will be earning will soon buy you a house back home.

Councils are only obliged to provide housing, normally B&B in a very limited number of cases and it highly unlikely a new immigrant would qualify. While you can apply for Council housing the waiting list is very long so very unlikely to get anything. Please stop reading the Daily Mail.

Stop fooling yourself.

When was the last time you saw a family on the streets? Never?

If a family turns up homeless on the council doorstep, they will put a roof over their heads, be it a home/hotel/b&b/referral to a government funded accommodation charity. Even if able to force them to return home, the time to arrange the flights will mean accommodating.

Single female/kids = guaranteed to never be homeless in the UK unless out of choice.

Housing Act 1996 said:

Local authorities are required to provide suitable accommodation if a household is homeless, in priority need [kids, vulnerable female], even if found to be intentionally homeless. The local authority must provide Temp Accommodation “for such a period as it considers will give him/her a reasonable opportunity to secure his/her own accommodation”

Edited by porridge on Thursday 12th December 13:24

[porridge]

Perik Omo said:

Segment on France 3 last night about how the camps near Calais are filling up and the charities are struggling to feed the number of people arriving there. Nearly every one of the camp residents interviewed said they are waiting for January so that they can go to the Uk where the benefits are good and they can lead a better life.

It is in todays papers, French ministers are asking UK government to pay towards the cost, many are asylum seekers who point blank refuse to claim asylum in France as this would make them ineligible in the UK. Madness.

[porridge]

mrpurple said:

don't worry the Met police have been over there and have told them to behave themselves when they come here.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/metropolit...

All the things we are wasting needless time and resources on when all our spineless politicians need to to is stand up and just say no.

[porridge]

BBC interview people in a town heavily hit by Eastern European immigration, readers comments say it all!

Headmistress of local school advise she is worried about yet more coming, as already expanded and still full with waiting lists at all years. 60%+ don't speak English well and so she has had to employ bi-lingual interpreters.

Eastern European lady advises she has a job, but behind her are her two school age kids her tax will not be covering the costs of.

Local farmer loves it though as getting labour for peanuts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25128110

[porridge]

Kermit power said:

Repetitive stuff

Forgive me if I am wrong, but have you not raised the same question before and read the same replies?

Why do you choose to keep banging on about Brit benefit scroungers on an immigration thread when this issue is not directly related to one of "uncontrolled" immigration? If anything the money spent on interpreters etc could be put to use getting these back into work.

[porridge]

Mrr T said:

A flight for £70 and then a bus from Luton to London is a much better option and you might just be able to save enough to pay it. Which is why I checked the flight availability.

Coach travel will be the first choice, no benefits for first 3 months means saving pennies.

A sample coach chosen at random includes
1) A Prostitute whose one brother is in Manchster who "has babies and works as a cleaner" and her second brother is in London and "steals and takes drugs. He was there a year and nobody helped him, so he steals."
2) 1 illegal London worker worked now going legit, lives in North Lonon flat with 10 other builders.
3) An Afghani trafficking an underage girl to work as a prosititute.

A random coach journey taken by the Independent paper

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/buc...

Edited by porridge on Wednesday 8th January 14:32

[porridge]

4v6 said:

When asked how he's getting on and if he had found a job, Victor said "Yes! I work car wash but I dont like so I find another."
Which proves the point that unskilled folk like Victor are coming here and arent contributing whatsoever which was kind of the main issue all along.

Of course good ol Dermot didnt try to press it and just glossed over the fact that the guy is now out of work and probably wasnt contributing to paye anyway.

Keith though he had chosen the perfect poster boy

mail said:

Victor, the Romanian migrant who was greeted by Keith Vaz as he arrived in Britain to work was found guilty of violence in June 2011 and fined for attacking his girlfriend. Spirescu was fined £600 and ordered to pay his ex-girlfriend £400 compensation in June 2011 by Bucharest's 3rd District Court following the incident. In addition, he was given a 35 day suspended jail sentence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2535759/Romanian-migrant-treated-Costa-Coffee-Keith-Vaz-exposed-drug-user-beat-girlfriend-threatened-drown-her.html

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

I find it utterly incredible how your mind twists everything you read to make foreigners look grim.
Any normal person who reads that article would see that it is about the fact that despite all the hysteria from people like you, the bus from Romania contained only one Romanian bound for London who already worked here and reading that article he is of the type who is very welcome as far as I am concerned.
It is also reassuring that it suggests that the majority of Romanians (if that bus sample is anything to go by) find Germany a much more attractive proposition.

I find it utterly incredible how your people like you do not care about anything beyond the end of your own nose.

Any normal person would not look at the fact that "only one is going to the UK" (as you know politicians have dodged this bullet with the 'self-employed' early entry scam), but instead a normal person would question the principle of uncontrolled European borders amongst countries with wildly differing incomes and corruption levels.

It does not matter where they go, it is the fact they can can go against the host countries wishes that is the issue and with zero assessment of what they have to offer or their history.

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

Sorry Porridge, I didn't realise you cared so much about the domestic situations of other European countries, I mistook your stance to be a nationalistic one.
Life must be stressful for you having all this angst for all our European counterparts. Out of curiosity - what determines in your head which countries are 'victims' of this type of thing?
Or is it just that you pick a certain nation as predominantly 'bad' and align yourself with any country who any of their residents visit?
I don't understand.

I have worked/travelled extensively in Europe and across the world. I am not a blind nationalist or indeed a blind liberal... It is not a matter of choosing a 'victim', but of considering a policy that allows no controls over immigration- the inability to pick a certain individual as bad to paraphrase some of your trolling reply.

What I also have is have is something people like you seem to lack, the ability to consider the wider picture and impact on people other than yourself. Put down the Guardian and go and see what life is actually like.

[porridge]

blindswelledrat said:

But we are not referring to a controlled immigration policy

The bus full of people are travelling due to a lack of controls, this is exactly what we are referring to? without this issue the conversation would not exist.

blindswelledrat said:

Most successful people in the UK began life earning near to minimum wage.

Think you will find UK social mobility studies show that the majority beginning life near minimum wage, will end life near minimum wage as will their offspring. If you school has expanded over a single summer with temp cabins to accommodate unexpected new arrivals who also take up additional funding for language needs than that is not going to help is it? there are parents failing to get a place in any nearby school.

blindswelledrat said:

Every single white English person has greater opportunities in this country than an immigrant of the same calibre.

Firstly let's lose the 'white' part, a UK unskilled citizen cannot compete with 1)illegal workers or 2) workers willing to shack up 10 to a small flat to send money home. What you are advocating is not competition to drive quality of life forward, but instead a backward move for UK citizens to 3rd world standards.

Not to mention the factual evidence from Teachers, NHS and Councils of the struggle in infrastructure.

Open Door immigration is madness, work out how many people we need and what skill-sets are required and then let them in from Romania/Bulgaria or anywhere else on permits of a suitable timeframe.

[porridge]

Mrr T said:

So you are suggesting there will be Romanian and Bulgarian ghettos in the UK in 2014. You really are rather racist.

Why? Mass immigration of poor people results in initial ghettos, they live in the cheapest place they can find packing as many people in as possible until they can afford otherwise,

Are you aware of home many Matresses/Sofa's etc are dumped daily onto the poor parts of London's streets? They even have Facebook pages dedicated to them.

[porridge]

Mrr T said:

I have not seen any publicity. In my experience most councils are very quick to jump on illegal accommodation.

You have not lived

As someone who has lived in Berkshire, Slough Southall and all that area is chock full, the council turn a blind eye- mainly as if they close this then the problem becomes theirs to deal with at a significant cost to resources and financials.