Reverend Paul Flowers - Ex Co-Op Bank boss busted.
Discussion
crankedup said:
I agree with your comments regarding the Co-op bank, it will take years to regain its former good name, if at all.
Of course, as individuals its a POV I dare say is shared by many I expect, we can't all share the same values, good or otherwise. We choose where we like to be and we are all subjected to being disappointed from time to time. Recently its been City banking thats taken a hammering, now its the turn of a Mutual Bank. As many posters have said in response to 'city bank bashing' mine included, its just a few rotten apples that are intoxicating the system. This argument is just as valid perhaps regarding Co-op bank.
Ethics and morals, to a degree you may wish to adopt, or not, is a personal decision. I'm not saying I have the highest order of either of these traits, far from it, but a World devoid of such things and we are all done for. If a small business failed to invoice for a product would you (not personally) have your Company request that invoice? Same question only a large business? This is not meant to come over all preachy and I apologise if its the case.
You have misunderstood my point. I resent being told, as I repeatedly am - the BBC even had a character called 'Ethical Man', what I should or should not find acceptable. In matters of honesty, such as the example you give, there is only black and white. In other areas, for example belief in Global Warming (let's not go there) there are many shades of grey. An individual should not be held to be 'unethical' because his or her views deviate from those that are presented by the ones with the loudest voices. Once again, I intend no personal attack.Of course, as individuals its a POV I dare say is shared by many I expect, we can't all share the same values, good or otherwise. We choose where we like to be and we are all subjected to being disappointed from time to time. Recently its been City banking thats taken a hammering, now its the turn of a Mutual Bank. As many posters have said in response to 'city bank bashing' mine included, its just a few rotten apples that are intoxicating the system. This argument is just as valid perhaps regarding Co-op bank.
Ethics and morals, to a degree you may wish to adopt, or not, is a personal decision. I'm not saying I have the highest order of either of these traits, far from it, but a World devoid of such things and we are all done for. If a small business failed to invoice for a product would you (not personally) have your Company request that invoice? Same question only a large business? This is not meant to come over all preachy and I apologise if its the case.
Andy Zarse said:
Thanks for the info.
Off on a tangent, why should they even think that taxpayer's help is available? If my, or anyone else's, business goes bust due to our own stupidity and greed then why would we even think the Govt will bail us out? These folk are just another load of useless "too big to fail" leeches. f
k the Co-op.
The directors of such failed institutions really need to be made to wear hair shirts. We won't get anywhere with changing the culture of banking in the UK until this happens. And we won't rebalance our economy until our banks are properly reformed.
Agreed. Off on a tangent, why should they even think that taxpayer's help is available? If my, or anyone else's, business goes bust due to our own stupidity and greed then why would we even think the Govt will bail us out? These folk are just another load of useless "too big to fail" leeches. f
k the Co-op.The directors of such failed institutions really need to be made to wear hair shirts. We won't get anywhere with changing the culture of banking in the UK until this happens. And we won't rebalance our economy until our banks are properly reformed.
God knows why they thought they could get a bailout from the taxpayer. Probably because they are deluded and think they are doing the Lord's work.
But the fact is that it shows they considered ring fencing the banking arm from the group and letting it collapse along with all their members' savings. Class.
crankedup said:
I thought this thread was discussing the former CEO, Flowers. Thats why I refer to one idiot.
Sorry I don't follow your meaning about having 'to fund the hole'.
I simply do not accept your POV regarding Ethical and Moral trading having to raise charges to compete. Those people who choose to trade with such Companies do so mainly for their own personal beliefs or stated business philosophy.
And the Co-op businesses trade under their own sectors.
As part of the deal struck with the hedge funds TCG, the bank's parent group, agreed to provide a cash injection of £462 million. Sorry I don't follow your meaning about having 'to fund the hole'.
I simply do not accept your POV regarding Ethical and Moral trading having to raise charges to compete. Those people who choose to trade with such Companies do so mainly for their own personal beliefs or stated business philosophy.
And the Co-op businesses trade under their own sectors.
As far as an earlier enquiry about The Cooperative Food, it's strength lies in smaller stores, rather than large ones. Most of the stores from the Somerfield acquisition were larger stores, and suffered greatly in the change to a Coop fascia, with some ex SF stores now trading 50% down on pre merger figures (Most are around the 25-30% mark)
Edited by Rollcage on Wednesday 20th November 19:22
'One Angel Square[1] is an office building in Manchester, England. Construction work began in 2010 and was completed in February 2013. The landmark building is the head office of the Co-operative Group. Standing 72.5 metres (237.8 feet) tall, the building forms the centrepiece of the new £800 million NOMA development in the northern quarter of Manchester city centre. The building cost at least £105 million to construct and was sold on leaseback terms in 2013 for £142 million.'
I wonder what yield they signed up to for the sale and leaseback? Over market perchance?
I wonder what yield they signed up to for the sale and leaseback? Over market perchance?
I couldn't tell you what the yield is, but NOMA is another white elephant - http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/bu...
Angel Square is also too small to transfer all their H/O functions into - originally a Head Office, it's now a Support Centre!
Angel Square is also too small to transfer all their H/O functions into - originally a Head Office, it's now a Support Centre!
Rollcage said:
crankedup said:
I thought this thread was discussing the former CEO, Flowers. Thats why I refer to one idiot.
Sorry I don't follow your meaning about having 'to fund the hole'.
I simply do not accept your POV regarding Ethical and Moral trading having to raise charges to compete. Those people who choose to trade with such Companies do so mainly for their own personal beliefs or stated business philosophy.
And the Co-op businesses trade under their own sectors.
As part of the deal struck with the hedge funds TCG, the bank's parent group, agreed to provide a cash injection of £462 million. Sorry I don't follow your meaning about having 'to fund the hole'.
I simply do not accept your POV regarding Ethical and Moral trading having to raise charges to compete. Those people who choose to trade with such Companies do so mainly for their own personal beliefs or stated business philosophy.
And the Co-op businesses trade under their own sectors.
As far as an earlier enquiry about The Cooperative Food, it's strength lies in smaller stores, rather than large ones. Most of the stores from the Somerfield acquisition were larger stores, and suffered greatly in the change to a Coop fascia, with some ex SF stores now trading 50% down on pre merger figures (Most are around the 25-30% mark)
Edited by Rollcage on Wednesday 20th November 19:22
crankedup said:
Indeed, Tesco have also taken a battering on a downward spiral of profit. Big changes take time to come through and I wouldn't expect the Co-op to be any different in that respect. The new CEO said that massive changes will have to be made within the Group, interesting times lay ahead.
Tesco are down because they've lost market share to their competitors. This means that their competitors have grown.
Growth has been in two core areas, the arse end of which Co-Op is part of but can be singled out as having not taken part in that growth story. And at the top end where chains have pushed hard into the traditional cornershop sector where margins are far higher and the restricted shelf space leads to only the premium margin products such as 'organic' being sold.
Tesco got caught by not having a competitive 'premium' brand while also not being able to fight back against the lower end and then being late to the party on the destruction of the cornershop industry and the continued ruination of family businesses.
The question is why have Coop failed to capitalise in the growth at the lower end and why are they running their conglomerate through so many disparate outlets?
And what rights as well as members rights have been lost by going to hedge funds to fill the hole? And who voted for it?
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 20th November 20:02
I think it was more a case of the hedge funds coming to the Co-Op, rather than the other way round!
The initial bail-out plan clearly left the Bank vulnerable to a leveraged takeover, and it's exactly what happened.
Clearly out of their corporate depth at board level, though their (no doubt) highly paid advisers don't seem to be much use either!
The initial bail-out plan clearly left the Bank vulnerable to a leveraged takeover, and it's exactly what happened.
Clearly out of their corporate depth at board level, though their (no doubt) highly paid advisers don't seem to be much use either!
Not sure why Richard Griffiths was cast as 'Uncle Monty' in Withnail and I when they could have had Flowers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510241/Pa...
Uncle Monty looks a little tame in comparison!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510241/Pa...
Uncle Monty looks a little tame in comparison!
...bloody beautRollcage said:
Clearly out of their corporate depth at board level, though their (no doubt) highly paid advisers don't seem to be much use either!
Sounds pretty much par for the course in financial services sector.IMO money is a tool for use in business. It's not a business in itself - as these guys are ably demonstrating time after time after time.
Andy Zarse said:
It defies belief, and even a horticulturalist can see it...
Hey, don't knock horticulturalists! I do half the amount of crack this guy does. Meanwhile, on the Mash:
Daily Mash said:
Miliband ‘urged Co-op boss to buy more crack’
ED Miliband told former Co-op Bank chairman Paul Flowers to buy ‘as much crack cocaine as he could possibly afford’.
Can't bear the thought of a mediocre sex party
Believes that every sex party should be able to fulfill its potential
The Conservative Party last night said it was now clear that Flowers and the Labour leader had regular discussions about drug-fuelled, rent boy sex parties with Miliband ‘egging on’ the Co-op chief to ever greater levels of depravity.
It is claimed that in one email exchange Flowers, a Methodist minister, asks Miliband ‘how much crack you should buy if – let’s say – you were organising a sex event?’.
According to senior sources, Miliband replied: “When it comes to crack, you should always take your initial estimate and double it.
“And get plenty of meth, otherwise you’ll feel like you’re at a sex party with your parents.”
Flowers emailed: “Thank you so much Ed. I hope you know that even though the Co-op gives money to the Labour Party I didn’t expect you to give me crack advice. So this is really kind of you.”
Miliband then replied: “Don’t be silly. Have a great time with your male prostitutes.”
Conservative Party chairman, Grant Shapps, said: “This not only answers the vital question of ‘how much did Ed Miliband know?’, it also answers the obvious follow-up question of ‘how eagerly did Ed Miliband encourage rent boy crack orgies?’.”
LinkyED Miliband told former Co-op Bank chairman Paul Flowers to buy ‘as much crack cocaine as he could possibly afford’.
Can't bear the thought of a mediocre sex party
Believes that every sex party should be able to fulfill its potential
The Conservative Party last night said it was now clear that Flowers and the Labour leader had regular discussions about drug-fuelled, rent boy sex parties with Miliband ‘egging on’ the Co-op chief to ever greater levels of depravity.
It is claimed that in one email exchange Flowers, a Methodist minister, asks Miliband ‘how much crack you should buy if – let’s say – you were organising a sex event?’.
According to senior sources, Miliband replied: “When it comes to crack, you should always take your initial estimate and double it.
“And get plenty of meth, otherwise you’ll feel like you’re at a sex party with your parents.”
Flowers emailed: “Thank you so much Ed. I hope you know that even though the Co-op gives money to the Labour Party I didn’t expect you to give me crack advice. So this is really kind of you.”
Miliband then replied: “Don’t be silly. Have a great time with your male prostitutes.”
Conservative Party chairman, Grant Shapps, said: “This not only answers the vital question of ‘how much did Ed Miliband know?’, it also answers the obvious follow-up question of ‘how eagerly did Ed Miliband encourage rent boy crack orgies?’.”
anonymous said:
[redacted]
In fairness, when you hear that a political donor is a vicar with a penchant for coke and rent boys one would normally expect that person to be a Tory donor. I suspect they are just a little confused right now and busy launching an enquiry to find out how their recruiters missed this one. 
But, what with the political hijacking of the Coop and the union trying to rig elections, the BBC and many others it opens up the terrifying reality of how close NL came to total control and just how many plants have been put into key organisations.
It really does read like something out of the Cold War in terms of subversive State controls. Bit then you have to remember who the architects were and what they were doing during that period of history.
But, when it comes to drugs, rent boys and embezzlement it really is best left to the professionals. Labour are just out of their league, they are just too middle class. It takes a real land owner to know how to handle this stuff.
DonkeyApple said:
In fairness, when you hear that a political donor is a vicar with a penchant for coke and rent boys one would normally expect that person to be a Tory donor. I suspect they are just a little confused right now and busy launching an enquiry to find out how their recruiters missed this one.
You can really sense the BBC's confusion when reporting on this. 
This guy really is the gift that keeps on giving. Drugs, gay porn, rent boys, expenses fraud - really, he ticks all the boxes!
Where I am struggling with this is that it isn't as if he had a dodgy past but had been exceptionally good at keeping quiet about it, or was very discreet in his private life - he had been caught with his hands in the till, stuff on his lappy, etc. and on more than one occasion.
So if the retards who appointed him to positions of increasing responsibility and power didn't know about his lifestyle, then why the hell not? Because it seems that without his being thick enough to fall for the classic tabloid sting, we'd be none the wiser.
Where I am struggling with this is that it isn't as if he had a dodgy past but had been exceptionally good at keeping quiet about it, or was very discreet in his private life - he had been caught with his hands in the till, stuff on his lappy, etc. and on more than one occasion.
So if the retards who appointed him to positions of increasing responsibility and power didn't know about his lifestyle, then why the hell not? Because it seems that without his being thick enough to fall for the classic tabloid sting, we'd be none the wiser.
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