Paul walker of fast and furious fame dead.
Discussion
y2blade said:
superkartracer said:
Losing a car @ 90mph is not a slow speed, hence they are dead
HTH
It is all relative, as I said. HTH
Tragic
ts at 100+http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dI5ewOmHPQ
3 mins in , the car simply disappears....
40mph into a tree will kill you easy.
You take the risks etc
Best saved for the track where it's a bit safer.
hornetrider said:
y2blade said:
and three of its tyres were nine years old when they should have been changed after four
Beggars belief that the car was maintained in such a way. I replace tyres in pairs on my family hatchback, let alone a hypercar.Tyres vulcanise. I was told when buying performance tyres that you should insist they were within 6 months of manufacture date....
Lots of wild speculation on the tyres.
Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
One would assume that they would have been inspected at service and likely been in a garage at relatively constant temperature and away from UV for a large amount of that time.
Unless I've missed it there hasn't been any mention of a tyre failure. As far as grip goes the driver should be feeling this based on road surface etc and not just the amount of grip that 'should' be available.
What I'm saying is a sensible driver could drive a GT on space savers and not crash.
Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
One would assume that they would have been inspected at service and likely been in a garage at relatively constant temperature and away from UV for a large amount of that time.
Unless I've missed it there hasn't been any mention of a tyre failure. As far as grip goes the driver should be feeling this based on road surface etc and not just the amount of grip that 'should' be available.
What I'm saying is a sensible driver could drive a GT on space savers and not crash.
trickywoo said:
Lots of wild speculation on the tyres.
Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
One would assume that they would have been inspected at service and likely been in a garage at relatively constant temperature and away from UV for a large amount of that time.
Unless I've missed it there hasn't been any mention of a tyre failure. As far as grip goes the driver should be feeling this based on road surface etc and not just the amount of grip that 'should' be available.
What I'm saying is a sensible driver could drive a GT on space savers and not crash.
FYI...I didn't make it up.Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
One would assume that they would have been inspected at service and likely been in a garage at relatively constant temperature and away from UV for a large amount of that time.
Unless I've missed it there hasn't been any mention of a tyre failure. As far as grip goes the driver should be feeling this based on road surface etc and not just the amount of grip that 'should' be available.
What I'm saying is a sensible driver could drive a GT on space savers and not crash.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/mar/26/paul-w...
The Porsche carrying Fast & Furious star Paul Walker was travelling at up to 94 mph (151km/h) when it went out of control on a suburban street and crashed, killing the actor and his friend, according to an investigation of the November 2013 accident.
The sports car driven by Roger Rodas slammed into a light pole with a 45 mph speed limit sign and burst into flames. Walker and Rodas died at the scene.
Investigators with the Los Angeles county sheriff's department and California highway patrol concluded that unsafe speed, not mechanical problems, caused the 30 November crash, the sheriff's department said on Tuesday.
Based on post-crash calculations, accident reconstruction specialists deteremined Rodas was driving his 2005 Porsche Carrera GT at between 81mph and 94 mph.
Investigators had previously found no evidence the car had mechanical problems and had ruled out debris or other roadway conditions.
Porsche sent engineers to California to review the car's wreckage. Though it was badly mangled and burned, they said there were no signs of any problems with the car's electrical systems, brakes, throttle, fuel system, steering, suspension or other systems that might have caused the crash.
"The results of the investigation show that, according to all the available evidence, this crash was caused by dangerous driving at speeds much too high for the road in question," Porsche said in a written statement. "We stand by our Carrera GT and by the investigation."
The conclusion about the speed was based on a "yaw" mark that one of the car's tires left on the road in an area of industrial office parks in Santa Clarita, about 30 miles north-west of downtown Los Angeles. Witnesses told a sheriff's deputy that they thought the car could have been traveling in excess of 100mph.
Post-crash investigators said the car had an exhaust system modified for greater speed and three of its tyres were nine years old when they should have been changed after four, which meant "the drivability and handling characteristics ... may have been compromised".
Rodas, 38, and Walker, 40, had taken what was supposed to be a quick ride on a clear afternoon from a fundraiser benefiting Reach Out Worldwide, a Walker charity that gives first-response aid to victims of natural disasters. The crash occurred near the fundraiser and friends of the men raced to the scene.
An unidentified witness said she saw the Porsche "'jiggling back and forth in [its] lane like the driver was jiggling the steering" just before the crash.
Autopsies showed that neither man had used alcohol or drugs. Investigators found evidence suggesting both wore seatbelts and the cars' air bags had deployed.
Rodas was Walker's financial adviser and the two had bonded over their shared love of fast cars. They co-owned a racing team named after Rodas's shop, Always Evolving, and Rodas drove professionally for the team in the Pirelli World Challenge circuit in 2013.
Walker starred in all but one of the six Fast & Furious films, which glorify muscular cars and risky driving. He had been filming the seventh instalment when he died.
y2blade said:
FYI...I didn't make it up.
I didn't say you did and unlike lots of posters I actually read that before commenting."the drivability and handling characteristics ... may have been compromised" hardly reads as a damning indictment.
Who is to say the tyre pressures weren't wildly out etc?
Just to clarify are you saying 9 year old tyres (by themselves) played a significant part in the driver losing control?
y2blade quoting the Guardian newspaper website said:
Rodas was Walker's financial adviser and the two had bonded over their shared love of fast cars. They co-owned a racing team named after Rodas's shop, Always Evolving, and Rodas drove professionally for the team in the Pirelli World Challenge circuit in 2013.
Some opined on Jalopnik that with Rodas previously being in finance there may have been tax efficiencies to be had by owning/running cars that way.Another link says Always Evolving traded 'high end' cars.
I'm not sure how that fits with running around in a vehicle that may have been 'stock' or 'inventory' that's on mismatched and aged tyres.
I think Porsche are pointing out issues with the car to protect themselves and their reputation and stamp out the CGT 'Widowmaker' suggestions.
http://www.wkrn.com/story/25071002/apnewsbreak-spe...
That link also mentions a worn rear brake disc that wasn't thought to be a contributory factor.
I haven't had the time to read all... but pray tell me why a Porsche Carrera GT would have 3 of its tyres NINE years old!?
Was the car in question a stand alone show model hence not used much?
Michelin may well say 10 years tyre life BUT that's probably advice for tyres that are used - even if it's granny using her car every day but doing only 2,000 miles a year - at least the tyres are rotating. Leave them standing unused and they 'deteriorate', especially sidewalls if car is not moved.
Tyres are usually incredible for what they have to endure.
BUT they need to be rotating once on wheels on a vehicle.
Was the car in question a stand alone show model hence not used much?
Michelin may well say 10 years tyre life BUT that's probably advice for tyres that are used - even if it's granny using her car every day but doing only 2,000 miles a year - at least the tyres are rotating. Leave them standing unused and they 'deteriorate', especially sidewalls if car is not moved.
Tyres are usually incredible for what they have to endure.
BUT they need to be rotating once on wheels on a vehicle.
trickywoo said:
I didn't say you did and unlike lots of posters I actually read that before commenting.
"the drivability and handling characteristics ... may have been compromised" hardly reads as a damning indictment.
Who is to say the tyre pressures weren't wildly out etc?
Just to clarify are you saying 9 year old tyres (by themselves) played a significant part in the driver losing control?
If the car was so poorly maintained that one of the rears discs was warn below spec and it had Three 9 year old tyres then yeah the tyre pressures could have been out too who knows? "the drivability and handling characteristics ... may have been compromised" hardly reads as a damning indictment.
Who is to say the tyre pressures weren't wildly out etc?
Just to clarify are you saying 9 year old tyres (by themselves) played a significant part in the driver losing control?
Interesting piece about tyre degradation over time.
How Old — and Dangerous — Are Your Tires?
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/how-old-and-danger...
"In February 2008, the owner of a 1998 Ford Explorer in Georgia needed a new tire for his SUV and ended up buying a used one. When he was driving two weeks later, the tread suddenly separated from the tire. The Explorer went out of control and hit a motorcycle, killing its rider. An analysis of the used tire revealed that it was nearly 10 years old..........."
More
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=tyre+degradation+over+...
Do they have an annual MOT equivalent in the states?
Zoobeef said:
They probably hadn't been on the car 9 years. The manufacturer would made a batch when they first came out and that is old stock.
Bingo, Exactly.From another website:
Here are some pictures of a nine year old tire that just came apart one day...
Other than the tread separation, the front of the tire looked fine. But the backside of the tire had this sponge like look to it...
y2blade said:
Zoobeef said:
They probably hadn't been on the car 9 years. The manufacturer would made a batch when they first came out and that is old stock.
Bingo, Exactly. If the tyres had been replaced and the date of them was when they were made and they'd been sitting on a shelf for years until fitted to this car wouldn't the date and cost of the replacement tyres be in the documented service history?
Why replace just one tyre?
Porsche have just stated a fact about the tyres. One can hardly blame them given the 'widowmaker' fallout.
A Carrera GT doesn't drive itself, just as it can't replace its own tyres.
carinaman said:
It's been reported that it had done 3,333 miles. Some say bad things come in threes.
If the tyres had been replaced and the date of them was when they were made and they'd been sitting on a shelf for years until fitted to this car wouldn't the date and cost of the replacement tyres be in the documented service history?
Why replace just one tyre?
Porsche have just stated a fact about the tyres. One can hardly blame them given the 'widowmaker' fallout.
A Carrera GT doesn't drive itself, just as it can't replace its own tyres.
Those questions will probably remain unanswered.If the tyres had been replaced and the date of them was when they were made and they'd been sitting on a shelf for years until fitted to this car wouldn't the date and cost of the replacement tyres be in the documented service history?
Why replace just one tyre?
Porsche have just stated a fact about the tyres. One can hardly blame them given the 'widowmaker' fallout.
A Carrera GT doesn't drive itself, just as it can't replace its own tyres.
All good points and pretty much exactly the conversation I just had about it here at work too.
trickywoo said:
Lots of wild speculation on the tyres.
Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
When my dad got his 996 it had 8 year old MPS2s (same as what the CGT comes with) on the front, and it was dangerous to be honest. ABS would kick in very quickly - a similar feeling to braking on snow or ice - no real deceleration or tyre noise, but loads of ABS. They looked OK but were just unbelievably hard.Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
If you went out for a fast run with tyres like that you'd be in serious trouble IMO.
911p said:
trickywoo said:
Lots of wild speculation on the tyres.
Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
When my dad got his 996 it had 8 year old MPS2s (same as what the CGT comes with) on the front, and it was dangerous to be honest. ABS would kick in very quickly - a similar feeling to braking on snow or ice - no real deceleration or tyre noise, but loads of ABS. They looked OK but were just unbelievably hard.Old tyres aren't always death traps http://www.michelin.co.uk/road-to-performance#road...
Michelin recommend changing at 10 years.
If you went out for a fast run with tyres like that you'd be in serious trouble IMO.
Evidently not what many here want to hear though.
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