Ban smacking, children's tsar urges
Discussion
Jinx said:
Low grade behavioural manipulation based on induced anxiety over material possessions and privileges or small slap to the thigh? I know what I would chose.
So the way you deal with adults you would describe as psychological brainwashing and inducing anxiety? or do you slap them too? These seem to be the two options you have at your disposal.ofcorsa said:
So the way you deal with adults you would describe as psychological brainwashing and inducing anxiety? or do you slap them too? These seem to be the two options you have at your disposal.
I had already advocated extending reasonable chastisement to adults but didn't get any traction.Pan Pan Pan said:
Exactly. Very young children, are no different from animals and like animals must start to test where their boundaries are. For some, verbal enforcement is all that is required to do this, but for others it has be a physical check, words or threats of treats, or freedoms being removed just will NOT work.
Anyone who says you need to hit children (or dogs for that matter) is simply too lazy or angry to use a non physical alternative. You don't ever need to hit your children. Smacking is banned in most civilised countries, the UN even criticised the UK for still allowing it.
This children are animals hooey is hooey. The smackers appear not to have noticed that humans have linguistic and reasoning skills that develop early and far exceed those of dogs etc.
The suggestion implicit in some posts that if not hit children will run wild or become violent bullies is not supported by evidence. Children can and do become socialised and peaceful without smacking. Many violent youths and adults come from families in which violence was routine. Not every smacked child becomes violent, but sending the message that violence is the correct instrument of reproof and control does not bode well.
The suggestion implicit in some posts that if not hit children will run wild or become violent bullies is not supported by evidence. Children can and do become socialised and peaceful without smacking. Many violent youths and adults come from families in which violence was routine. Not every smacked child becomes violent, but sending the message that violence is the correct instrument of reproof and control does not bode well.
el stovey said:
Are you suffering from some kind of mental illness? You've just completely contradicted most of the disturbing comments you made in your earlier post.
No, you just read what you wanted to and gave a holier than thou response. Perhaps, it could have been worded slightly better on my original post.I said in my post my dog might bite. I warn my son because the dogs too old to know any different.
I dont agree with smacking, nor do I agree with it being banned.
Some of the problems we have in schools are down to the fact there is no final deterrent and kids believe they are now untouchable while punching and kicking teachers or classmates, they have no real consequence.
el stovey said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Exactly. Very young children, are no different from animals and like animals must start to test where their boundaries are. For some, verbal enforcement is all that is required to do this, but for others it has be a physical check, words or threats of treats, or freedoms being removed just will NOT work.
Anyone who says you need to hit children (or dogs for that matter) is simply too lazy or angry to use a non physical alternative. You don't ever need to hit your children. Smacking is banned in most civilised countries, the UN even criticised the UK for still allowing it.
It seemed like an extreme view when another poster said if you smack you've failed as a parent. But actually I think if as a parent YOU have raised a child in a manner that means non physical alternative won't work, then yes you have already failed as a parent by allowing that mess to develop.
A loved and well cared for child will not need anything more than non physical discipline, like Dogs fundamentally they seek approval and affection from adults. It's hard wired into us. Although Jinx thinks it's brainwashing, actually we all seek out routines and hierarchy/structure. Like any group animal does.
Timmy40 said:
A loved and well cared for child will not need anything more than non physical discipline, like Dogs fundamentally they seek approval and affection from adults.
What a load of twaddle, do you have children yourself? 
Young children push behavioural boundaries all the time. By that I mean doing things they've been implicitly told not to do, time and time again. It is a constant challenge to make them stop doing disallowed behaviour.
Is this seeking approval or affection?! I think not.
Timmy40 said:
Although Jinx thinks it's brainwashing, actually we all seek out routines and hierarchy/structure. Like any group animal does.
You haven't worked with many alphas then....My rather too subtle argument was that non-violent methods may be tantamount to physiological abuse in the same way that violent methods may be physical abuse. It is a question of degrees.
Physical abuse though tends to heal a lot faster.
The idea of stopping wars was never a mission of the UN as far as I understand it. Humanitarian and Peace keeping duties and as well promoting human rights. A number of people working for UN have won Nobel prizes for peace. Great strawman though. How many international agencies are for the smacking of children?
hornetrider said:
Timmy40 said:
A loved and well cared for child will not need anything more than non physical discipline, like Dogs fundamentally they seek approval and affection from adults.
What a load of twaddle, do you have children yourself? Young children push behavioural boundaries all the time. By that I mean doing things they've been implicitly told not to do, time and time again. It is a constant challenge to make them stop doing disallowed behaviour.
Is this seeking approval or affection?! I think not.
Do you? If so it sounds like you've managed to instill bad behaviors in the first place which you are now finding hard to correct/rectify.
ofcorsa said:
The idea of stopping wars was never a mission of the UN as far as I understand it. Humanitarian and Peace keeping duties and as well promoting human rights. A number of people working for UN have won Nobel prizes for peace. Great strawman though. How many international agencies are for the smacking of children?
The UN was set up as a replacement for the League of Nations. Its founding principles were for countries to work through their problems without resorting to war (with the implied threat of collective action). So only a strawman in your world.Jinx said:
You haven't worked with many alphas then....
My rather too subtle argument was that non-violent methods may be tantamount to physiological abuse in the same way that violent methods may be physical abuse. It is a question of degrees.
Physical abuse though tends to heal a lot faster.
But surely you are relying on the memory of that violence to influence future decisions or are you advocating constant reinforcement? My rather too subtle argument was that non-violent methods may be tantamount to physiological abuse in the same way that violent methods may be physical abuse. It is a question of degrees.
Physical abuse though tends to heal a lot faster.
Breadvan72 said:
This children are animals hooey is hooey. The smackers appear not to have noticed that humans have linguistic and reasoning skills that develop early and far exceed those of dogs etc.
If you own a dog, you ought to be able to train it without hitting it. You certainly don't ever need to hit children to teach them something. hornetrider said:
Timmy40 said:
A loved and well cared for child will not need anything more than non physical discipline, like Dogs fundamentally they seek approval and affection from adults.
What a load of twaddle, do you have children yourself? Young children push behavioural boundaries all the time. By that I mean doing things they've been implicitly told not to do, time and time again. It is a constant challenge to make them stop doing disallowed behaviour.
Is this seeking approval or affection?! I think not.
As Hornetrider said, kids will push and push to see how far they can go. Sometimes well past an acceptable point. If verbal restraints control them then thats fine, but if not (and we havent got near this yet) what do you do after removing rights, toys, free time etc? I know of some kids that are pretty much uncontrollable, violent and aggressive. Im assuming they do not use physical means of restraint but where does the violence come from in the first place and does a smack help to stop or reinforce the childs aggression?
Having the fear of being smacked is often greater than the actual act, just like the cane or slipper at school. In removing these items has it meant more kids will be unruly or just the hardcore ones?
Timmy40 said:
3. Very well behaved. Never smacked. And I speak from experience.
Do you? If so it sounds like you've managed to instill bad behaviors in the first place which you are now finding hard to correct/rectify.
Just the one, nice to read you implying I'm a sDo you? If so it sounds like you've managed to instill bad behaviors in the first place which you are now finding hard to correct/rectify.
t parent, is this the level of discussion you want? PH typical high horse I'm better than yow? 
You wouldn't talk like that if we were chatting over a pint so why do it on the internet, this is supposed to be a reasonable discussion between adults.
I've merely stated that children push boundaries. Do you disagree? These are boundaries which we as parents have clearly outlined, and highlighted the consequences of their actions. For example, don't walk on the dwarf wall as you may fall and bump your head. She's generally pretty good (3 next week), but occasionally she'll be doing things she's previously been told not to do. I don't call this type of behaviour seeking love or approval, I call it pushing boundaries.
hornetrider said:
For example, don't walk on the dwarf wall as you may fall and bump your head. She's generally pretty good (3 next week), but occasionally she'll be doing things she's previously been told not to do. I don't call this type of behaviour seeking love or approval, I call it pushing boundaries.
and this would deserve a "smack"?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff