Ban smacking, children's tsar urges

[Murph7355]

Breadvan72 said:

This idea that people never change is unhistorical. True it is that people can still behave in grotesquely barbaric ways, but general levels of violence in society have fallen over the millennia, and forms of behaviour once considered acceptable, such as slavery and cruelty to animals, have become unacceptable in many (not all) societies. Arguments that we are all just savages really, as well as being very pessimistic, can be an used as an excuse for people to be selfish.

Is it that we have fundamentally changed? Or that we have (in the majority) become much better at suppressing the baser instincts of the species?

I suspect the reason adults struggle with kids at times is that the kids aren't able to suppress the same way, and as adults we struggle with that...especially when tired or other events impact our own capacity to suppress.

[anonymous-user]

hornetrider said:

Well, that's your view. It's not the view of many. My mum and her siblings used to get the belt if they misbehaved. They were scared stless of it. My dad used to get a wooden spoon.

Neither of them assaulted anyone in adult life btw, and they are quite well adjusted. Just saying.

How do you know how many people do or do not hold a particular view? Are you really saying that not many people think that children should be able to trust their parents?

Would you hit a child with a belt? How about a wooden spoon?

[hornetrider]

Breadvan72 said:

How do you know how many people do or do not hold a particular view?

I don't know how many. I just said many.

Breadvan72 said:

Are you really saying that not many people think that children should be able to trust their parents?

I wasn't specific enough. I meant to say that many people are of the view that it's not necessarily a bad thing to be afraid of a parent, or rather suffering the consequences of misbehaving.

Breadvan72 said:

Would you hit a child with a belt? How about a wooden spoon?

Nope. But that wasn't what I was saying now was it. Read wot I wrote chum. You're the law talking guy.

[anonymous-user]

Do you approve of hitting children with belts or wooden spoons? Do you think that children should fear their parents? Do you have any children?

[anonymous-user]

You assert that a view is not the view of many. That is a quantitative evaluation, so you must have some data to back it up. Or perhaps you were just stating a view as a fact.

[hornetrider]

Breadvan72 said:

Do you approve of hitting children with belts or wooden spoons?

Not personally, no.

Breadvan72 said:

Do you think that children should fear their parents?

That is an interesting question. There's probably a wide grey line somewhere between fear and respect. I think respect contains certain elements of fear of consequences of actions.

Breadvan72 said:

Do you have any children?

I do, my little darling princess turns three next week. I may have mentioned it a few times on this thread. She's awesome, thanks for asking.

[hornetrider]

Breadvan72 said:

You assert that a view is not the view of many. That is a quantitative evaluation, so you must have some data to back it up. Or perhaps you were just stating a view as a fact.

Ooh another question, how exciting. The assertion is more qualitative based upon conversation with peers, friends and family over the years. Sorry, I haven't kept detailed records for your benefit.

Does the prosecution rest, or will there be further cross-examination?

[Hugo a Gogo]

I tend to err towards 'fear of my disapproval' rather than 'fear of me whacking them with household objects'

[anonymous-user]

In which version of English is "not many" a statement as to quality and not quantity?


I recall an exchange in The Sweeney in which Regan gloms a secretary and says "I would", to which Carter responds "Not many", but that was the 70s, when everyone punched everyone else 24/7.

[hornetrider]

Hugo a Gogo said:

I tend to err towards 'fear of my disapproval' rather than 'fear of me whacking them with household objects'

Yeah, so do I. However the moral compass on this one has a fair amount of variance, I'm not going to impose my views on others. I can certainly see both sides of the argument (not culinary equipment, obvs).

[hornetrider]

Breadvan72 said:

In which version of English is "not many" a statement as to quality and not quantity?

I realise you have a desire to demonstrate your intellectual superiority for the masses at every turn, however if you really need me to show you down the garden path I will.

My use of the word many is my own personal estimate (as it must be) based upon the conversations I have had with the aforementioned groups of individuals during my lifetime.

I do hope this helps your understanding.

[WinstonWolf]

Breadvan72 said:

Do you approve of hitting children with belts or wooden spoons? Do you think that children should fear their parents? Do you have any children?

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people. Eventually you found the limit. Many kids grow up without the need to be put in their place, but not all do.

[hornetrider]

WinstonWolf said:

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people.

Dear God. And how many times have you been convicted of assault?

[WinstonWolf]

hornetrider said:

WinstonWolf said:

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people.

Dear God. And how many times have you been convicted of assault?

Precisely zero.

[Hugo a Gogo]

WinstonWolf said:

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people. Eventually you found the limit. Many kids grow up without the need to be put in their place, but not all do.

by your parents?

[Einion Yrth]

WinstonWolf said:

hornetrider said:

WinstonWolf said:

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people.

Dear God. And how many times have you been convicted of assault?

Precisely zero.

Never got caught, eh?

[hornetrider]

WinstonWolf said:

hornetrider said:

WinstonWolf said:

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people.

Dear God. And how many times have you been convicted of assault?

Precisely zero.

Pitchforks.

Oh.

[ofcorsa]

WinstonWolf said:

Breadvan72 said:

Do you approve of hitting children with belts or wooden spoons? Do you think that children should fear their parents? Do you have any children?

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people. Eventually you found the limit. Many kids grow up without the need to be put in their place, but not all do.

I wonder which came first, Your anger or the hitting ?

[mph1977]

ofcorsa said:

WinstonWolf said:

Breadvan72 said:

Do you approve of hitting children with belts or wooden spoons? Do you think that children should fear their parents? Do you have any children?

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people. Eventually you found the limit. Many kids grow up without the need to be put in their place, but not all do.

I wonder which came first, Your anger or the hitting ?

which is the essential arguement here

the use of physical punishment is an assault / battery ...

aschildren / young people learn by example and absorb the social norms of the society they live in - what lesson does this actually teach ...

physicla 'punishments' also have some interesting issues with 'arosued states' - hence the popularity of of BDSM techniques that are drawn from historical physical punishment / torture methods ( and moral high ground people you are 'guilty' of this kind of thing who you have ever tickled someone to submission or held your partner down during 'ordinary' sex - the difference with the kinky community is just they have accepted these concepts and don;t attach shame and self imposed guilt to it.)

[WinstonWolf]

ofcorsa said:

WinstonWolf said:

Breadvan72 said:

Do you approve of hitting children with belts or wooden spoons? Do you think that children should fear their parents? Do you have any children?

I was hit with wooden board rubbers and canes/belts as a kid. As an "angry young man" the whole point of some days was to see how far you could push people. Eventually you found the limit. Many kids grow up without the need to be put in their place, but not all do.

I wonder which came first, Your anger or the hitting ?

Without a doubt my anger. Some people are naturally rebellious, I was one of those. School was frequently boring, one way to pass the day was to wind up the teachers just to see when they cracked. I heard a rumour that Mr College used to give you a straight fingered jab to the solar plexus, the rumour was true. I didn't feel the need to wind him up again after that, it was an effective method of discipline.