Ban smacking, children's tsar urges
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
Oakey said:
Can you raise your voice at them? Is that allowed? What if it makes them cry? Bearing in mind that 'raising your voice' is also considered domestic violence if you did it to your partner.
I think we should start to frown on it a bit.I've only shouted once. More because I was worn out than anything else and I felt lousy afterwards. Had quite an impact on the eldest as she'd not heard "daddy shout" before.
There are better methods, they just take a lot of effort and a significant degree of humility and patience on behalf of the parent.
DoubleSix said:
WinstonWolf said:
Oakey said:
Can you raise your voice at them? Is that allowed? What if it makes them cry? Bearing in mind that 'raising your voice' is also considered domestic violence if you did it to your partner.
I think we should start to frown on it a bit.I've only shouted once. More because I was worn out than anything else and I felt lousy afterwards. Had quite an impact on the eldest as she'd not heard "daddy shout" before.
There are better methods, they just take a lot of effort and a significant degree of humility and patience on behalf of the parent.
I got to two and a half once, you could have cut the air with a knife
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
fblm said:
El stovey said:
I'm using pictures to explain it better.
I can see why you don't smack. Talking to you is fvcking painful enough.El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
I've discussed at great length with my now twenty year old daughter what happens when you actually get to three. Neither of us know and we don't want to find out...
I got to two and a half once, you could have cut the air with a knife
You sound really creepy.I got to two and a half once, you could have cut the air with a knife
So discussing parenting with my now fully grown children is creepy?M'Kay..
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
fblm said:
El stovey said:
I'm using pictures to explain it better.
I can see why you don't smack. Talking to you is fvcking painful enough.WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
fblm said:
El stovey said:
I'm using pictures to explain it better.
I can see why you don't smack. Talking to you is fvcking painful enough.Just stop babbling and explain it.
To smack a child, you hit it with your hand. When you're smacking a child, you're hitting it.
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
fblm said:
El stovey said:
I'm using pictures to explain it better.
I can see why you don't smack. Talking to you is fvcking painful enough.Just stop babbling and explain it.
So what's creepy about discussing parenting with your children?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I have refrained from smacking my children as well as from using any physical form of control beyond picking up and placing in a corner. I hate to admit it, but I lost my temper with my youngest as a baby (13-18 months) and shouted at her in anger until she became inconsolable and it was easily my worst parenting decision.
The truth is that smacking/hitting/shouting does nothing other than instil fear. If you wish to proceed in building a relationship with another human based on fear, be my guest...it's your life and you make your own choices.
Personally, I feel I can address all the physical intimacy and bonding issues through play and have no need to demonstrate physical aggression in a real and direct fashion. I would not allow any adult to physically attack my kids in any form. I absolutely believe it is wrong.
Interested to hear other viewpoints though...particularly in defence of 'smacking'.
P.S. yeah I was smacked, slippered, caned, throttled and even punched by adults as a kid. It didn't help me to trust adults and in fact made me more aggressive towards other kids...can't personally see the up-side tbh.
The truth is that smacking/hitting/shouting does nothing other than instil fear. If you wish to proceed in building a relationship with another human based on fear, be my guest...it's your life and you make your own choices.
Personally, I feel I can address all the physical intimacy and bonding issues through play and have no need to demonstrate physical aggression in a real and direct fashion. I would not allow any adult to physically attack my kids in any form. I absolutely believe it is wrong.
Interested to hear other viewpoints though...particularly in defence of 'smacking'.
P.S. yeah I was smacked, slippered, caned, throttled and even punched by adults as a kid. It didn't help me to trust adults and in fact made me more aggressive towards other kids...can't personally see the up-side tbh.
[quote=dimots
The truth is that smacking/hitting/shouting does nothing other than instil fear. If you wish to proceed in building a relationship with another human based on fear, be my guest...it's your life and you make your own choices.
.
[/quote]
Not sure if that is true. Maybe the first time, but after that.......I remember being caned at school, for often trivial offences.., first time scarey, after that ..meh. Most of us swill face aggression against us at some points in our lives, some preparation is useful. Same as school rugby gives us a perspective on violence. You dont learn this stuff when young then there is a danger of growing up into some sort of snowflake.
The truth is that smacking/hitting/shouting does nothing other than instil fear. If you wish to proceed in building a relationship with another human based on fear, be my guest...it's your life and you make your own choices.
.
[/quote]
Not sure if that is true. Maybe the first time, but after that.......I remember being caned at school, for often trivial offences.., first time scarey, after that ..meh. Most of us swill face aggression against us at some points in our lives, some preparation is useful. Same as school rugby gives us a perspective on violence. You dont learn this stuff when young then there is a danger of growing up into some sort of snowflake.
dimots said:
P.S. yeah I was smacked, slippered, caned, throttled and even punched by adults as a kid. It didn't help me to trust adults and in fact made me more aggressive towards other kids...can't personally see the up-side tbh.
Just read Winston's posts, The obvious upsides to smacking your kids are that, 1- Anyone can do it.
2- You don't have to learn any stuff about child psychology or parenting, and best of all, . .
3- Even when you have lost your rag and run out of parenting skills, it's really easy to remember.
Then years later, you can justify it to strangers on the internet by saying it's not actually hitting, it's just smacking, obviously it looks just like hitting but it's just different and, although you can't explain it, anyone who disagrees is thick.
dimots said:
The truth is that smacking/hitting/shouting does nothing other than instil fear.
How often are you talking about here? It does instill fear but when you've told your little one to stop doing something particularly dangerous numerous times and they do it again and again, for the time being, fear of a smack is a good proxy for fear of something inconceivable to them, like drowning. It draws a line in the sand, this isn't a game or a negotiation, you don't play on the dock, end of conversation, now go play in the garden. I'm not defending smacking because it evidently means something completely different to different people, from the occasional tap on the hand to being thrashed daily. I'd be concerned that a ban, in the usual manner of government interference, would be over reaching and like some posters who feel the need to signal their perceived superiority, make no differentiation between a rare physically harmless smack to stop a child seriously hurting themselves and a reign of mental terror.fblm said:
How often are you talking about here? It does instill fear but when you've told your little one to stop doing something particularly dangerous numerous times and they do it again and again, for the time being, fear of a smack is a good proxy for fear of something inconceivable to them, like drowning. It draws a line in the sand, this isn't a game or a negotiation, you don't play on the dock, end of conversation, now go play in the garden. I'm not defending smacking because it evidently means something completely different to different people, from the occasional tap on the hand to being thrashed daily. I'd be concerned that a ban, in the usual manner of government interference, would be over reaching and like some posters who feel the need to signal their perceived superiority, make no differentiation between a rare physically harmless smack to stop a child seriously hurting themselves and a reign of mental terror.
As I said earlier if they don't understand it they probably shouldn't be using it.The problem is, and this is a wider problem with our democracy, they don't understand it but feel completely entitled to vote/lecture on it.
El stovey said:
dimots said:
P.S. yeah I was smacked, slippered, caned, throttled and even punched by adults as a kid. It didn't help me to trust adults and in fact made me more aggressive towards other kids...can't personally see the up-side tbh.
Just read Winston's posts, The obvious upsides to smacking your kids are that, 1- Anyone can do it.
2- You don't have to learn any stuff about child psychology or parenting, and best of all, . .
3- Even when you have lost your rag and run out of parenting skills, it's really easy to remember.
Then years later, you can justify it to strangers on the internet by saying it's not actually hitting, it's just smacking, obviously it looks just like hitting but it's just different and, although you can't explain it, anyone who disagrees is thick.
This is actually painful to read.
Some people are actively failing to understand a very basic concept in learning (unpleasant thing happens in response to action = don't do it) which is the same concept behind all punishments.
You're also failing to distinguish between 'hitting' which would be assault and 'smacking' which would meet the legal definition of reasonable chastisement. They are not the same thing.
If you go beyond reasonable chastisement you are already in the wrong.
Not agreeing with something and utterly failing to comprehend it are not the same thing.
Some people are actively failing to understand a very basic concept in learning (unpleasant thing happens in response to action = don't do it) which is the same concept behind all punishments.
You're also failing to distinguish between 'hitting' which would be assault and 'smacking' which would meet the legal definition of reasonable chastisement. They are not the same thing.
If you go beyond reasonable chastisement you are already in the wrong.
Not agreeing with something and utterly failing to comprehend it are not the same thing.
Smacking is a terrible way to teach children how to control their actions and emotions...which is what discipline is really all about.
However, I don't want the government to interefere and make it illegal. Are they proposing this because it will make it easier for them to investigate abuse allegations? I guess at the moment if a child reports being hit and the parent says "I give them a smack if they're very naughty" then there's no case?
However, I don't want the government to interefere and make it illegal. Are they proposing this because it will make it easier for them to investigate abuse allegations? I guess at the moment if a child reports being hit and the parent says "I give them a smack if they're very naughty" then there's no case?
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