The truth about immigration

[pcvdriver]

Immigrant dole-cheats (they work and also get massive amounts of state handouts) living in luxury - more than ten to a house. The head of the family is said to be Greek, say reports.

Edited by pcvdriver on Sunday 19th January 00:25

[andymadmak]

pcvdriver said:

Immigrant dole-cheats (they work and also get massive amounts of state handouts) living in luxury - more than ten to a house. The head of the family is said to be Greek, say reports.

Edited by pcvdriver on Sunday 19th January 00:25

I actually find that quite offensive. For a start the family has been based here for several generations now, so hardly immigrant. In fact, if you tried using the same logic and implied that second generation immigrants from the Indian subcontinent were not British then you'd be up before the politically correct mob before you could say nuts. But of course, being the type of person you are its easy for you to take a pop safe in the knowledge that the Royal family will not be taking you to task over it. And as for that Greek head of the family, he is a genuine bona fide war hero from the second world war, and you should be ashamed of yourself for taking the tone you have.
Dole cheats? Her maj probably works harder than you do you silly little twerp.

[pcvdriver]

andymadmak said:

I actually find that quite offensive. For a start the family has been based here for several generations now, so hardly immigrant. In fact, if you tried using the same logic and implied that second generation immigrants from the Indian subcontinent were not British then you'd be up before the politically correct mob before you could say nuts. But of course, being the type of person you are its easy for you to take a pop safe in the knowledge that the Royal family will not be taking you to task over it. And as for that Greek head of the family, he is a genuine bona fide war hero from the second world war, and you should be ashamed of yourself for taking the tone you have.
Dole cheats? Her maj probably works harder than you do you silly little twerp.

I'm just drawing similar parables to those immigrant families in this country of similar circumstance (but who aren't in any way royal and don't need to feel the need to work and then ask for massive state handouts), who seem to be pilloried by the majority of right wingers for being foreigners having the temerity to want to live and work in this country.
There are many recorded cases of other war heroes, such as the Gurkhas, who the government tried to stiff out of their pensions, which I also find reprehensible, but I don't see many leaping to their defence of their rights.

[andymadmak]

pcvdriver said:

I'm just drawing similar parables to those immigrant families in this country of similar circumstance (but who aren't in any way royal and don't need to feel the need to work and then ask for massive state handouts), who seem to be pilloried by the majority of right wingers for being foreigners having the temerity to want to live and work in this country.
There are many recorded cases of other war heroes, such as the Gurkhas, who the government tried to stiff out of their pensions, which I also find reprehensible, but I don't see many leaping to their defence of their rights.

What does drawing parables mean? Or are you drawing parallels? And since most of the UK population is in some way immigrant if you were to go back far enough I am still struggling to understand why you seem so keen to paint the Royal Family as being in the same bracket as the newcomers arriving at our shores in 2014. Or are you just being a chippy lefty with all the slogans and none of the real knowledge? Let's see shall we? You imply that the Royal Family receives massive state handouts. Can you clarify your position on that? Are you familiar with the civil list, who is on it, and why? Are you familiar with what does and does not get paid for by the state? Do you know what arrangements are in place for the treatment of revenues derived from Crown lands/estates?
As for your comment about the Gurkhas I am stunned. There were plenty who protested at the way those men and their families were treated. ( remind me again which Government did the dirty on them to start with? )
You bleat on about right wingers, but the reality is that you really dont know what you are talking about. Your laughable assertion / fairy tale view of reality on the child abuse thread just about encapsulates how far away from reality you are.

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

[Steffan]

andymadmak said:

pcvdriver said:

I'm just drawing similar parables to those immigrant families in this country of similar circumstance (but who aren't in any way royal and don't need to feel the need to work and then ask for massive state handouts), who seem to be pilloried by the majority of right wingers for being foreigners having the temerity to want to live and work in this country.
There are many recorded cases of other war heroes, such as the Gurkhas, who the government tried to stiff out of their pensions, which I also find reprehensible, but I don't see many leaping to their defence of their rights.

What does drawing parables mean? Or are you drawing parallels? And since most of the UK population is in some way immigrant if you were to go back far enough I am still struggling to understand why you seem so keen to paint the Royal Family as being in the same bracket as the newcomers arriving at our shores in 2014. Or are you just being a chippy lefty with all the slogans and none of the real knowledge? Let's see shall we? You imply that the Royal Family receives massive state handouts. Can you clarify your position on that? Are you familiar with the civil list, who is on it, and why? Are you familiar with what does and does not get paid for by the state? Do you know what arrangements are in place for the treatment of revenues derived from Crown lands/estates?
As for your comment about the Gurkhas I am stunned. There were plenty who protested at the way those men and their families were treated. ( remind me again which Government did the dirty on them to start with? )
You bleat on about right wingers, but the reality is that you really dont know what you are talking about. Your laughable assertion / fairy tale view of reality on the child abuse thread just about encapsulates how far away from reality you are.

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

I must agree with this especially the final ten lines. In fairness the coalition in the form of Iain Duncan Smith is trying to grapple with this problem for the first time since the Attlee government created the welfare state in the post WWII Labour government. New Labour (Sic!) just used the system to line their pockets and buy votes with grossly excessive public borrowing. However as IDS is finding this will take many years to effect and probably two generations. There will be a massive reduction in the UK in reliance on Benefits because there must be a reduction in overall public spending and benefits is the killer currently. We will see the realisation that the days are gone when swanning about on benefits was a lifestyle choice of many. But this will take decades to work through the system. It is of course critical to any form of UK economy recovery.

[johnS2000]

andymadmak said:

What does drawing parables mean? Or are you drawing parallels? And since most of the UK population is in some way immigrant if you were to go back far enough I am still struggling to understand why you seem so keen to paint the Royal Family as being in the same bracket as the newcomers arriving at our shores in 2014. Or are you just being a chippy lefty with all the slogans and none of the real knowledge? Let's see shall we? You imply that the Royal Family receives massive state handouts. Can you clarify your position on that? Are you familiar with the civil list, who is on it, and why? Are you familiar with what does and does not get paid for by the state? Do you know what arrangements are in place for the treatment of revenues derived from Crown lands/estates?
As for your comment about the Gurkhas I am stunned. There were plenty who protested at the way those men and their families were treated. ( remind me again which Government did the dirty on them to start with? )
You bleat on about right wingers, but the reality is that you really dont know what you are talking about. Your laughable assertion / fairy tale view of reality on the child abuse thread just about encapsulates how far away from reality you are.

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

I do not normally comment on these type of threads as most people seem to know a lot more than I do .

But I must say:

Well said that man !

[mrpurple]

andymadmak said:

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

very well put.this thread may as well be locked now.

[iphonedyou]

andymadmak said:

What does drawing parables mean? Or are you drawing parallels? And since most of the UK population is in some way immigrant if you were to go back far enough I am still struggling to understand why you seem so keen to paint the Royal Family as being in the same bracket as the newcomers arriving at our shores in 2014. Or are you just being a chippy lefty with all the slogans and none of the real knowledge? Let's see shall we? You imply that the Royal Family receives massive state handouts. Can you clarify your position on that? Are you familiar with the civil list, who is on it, and why? Are you familiar with what does and does not get paid for by the state? Do you know what arrangements are in place for the treatment of revenues derived from Crown lands/estates?
As for your comment about the Gurkhas I am stunned. There were plenty who protested at the way those men and their families were treated. ( remind me again which Government did the dirty on them to start with? )
You bleat on about right wingers, but the reality is that you really dont know what you are talking about. Your laughable assertion / fairy tale view of reality on the child abuse thread just about encapsulates how far away from reality you are.

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

As usual, Andy has it correct and, as usual, pcvdriver has made an utter fool of himself. Pity he can't contain that to the Scottish independence thread.

I too find the original comment quite offensive, though excuse him somewhat for making it from a position of total ignorance.

[SPS]

voyds9 said:

Because the Romanians don't go to school.


There is nothing wrong with 'good' immigration.

I'm happy to have doctors, bankers, chefs etc.

I don't want taxi drivers, cleaners, big issue sellers etc.

Edited by voyds9 on Tuesday 7th January 22:46

You want MORE freakin bankers - really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guybrush]

Steffan said:

andymadmak said:

pcvdriver said:

I'm just drawing similar parables to those immigrant families in this country of similar circumstance (but who aren't in any way royal and don't need to feel the need to work and then ask for massive state handouts), who seem to be pilloried by the majority of right wingers for being foreigners having the temerity to want to live and work in this country.
There are many recorded cases of other war heroes, such as the Gurkhas, who the government tried to stiff out of their pensions, which I also find reprehensible, but I don't see many leaping to their defence of their rights.

What does drawing parables mean? Or are you drawing parallels? And since most of the UK population is in some way immigrant if you were to go back far enough I am still struggling to understand why you seem so keen to paint the Royal Family as being in the same bracket as the newcomers arriving at our shores in 2014. Or are you just being a chippy lefty with all the slogans and none of the real knowledge? Let's see shall we? You imply that the Royal Family receives massive state handouts. Can you clarify your position on that? Are you familiar with the civil list, who is on it, and why? Are you familiar with what does and does not get paid for by the state? Do you know what arrangements are in place for the treatment of revenues derived from Crown lands/estates?
As for your comment about the Gurkhas I am stunned. There were plenty who protested at the way those men and their families were treated. ( remind me again which Government did the dirty on them to start with? )
You bleat on about right wingers, but the reality is that you really dont know what you are talking about. Your laughable assertion / fairy tale view of reality on the child abuse thread just about encapsulates how far away from reality you are.

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

I must agree with this especially the final ten lines. In fairness the coalition in the form of Iain Duncan Smith is trying to grapple with this problem for the first time since the Attlee government created the welfare state in the post WWII Labour government. New Labour (Sic!) just used the system to line their pockets and buy votes with grossly excessive public borrowing. However as IDS is finding this will take many years to effect and probably two generations. There will be a massive reduction in the UK in reliance on Benefits because there must be a reduction in overall public spending and benefits is the killer currently. We will see the realisation that the days are gone when swanning about on benefits was a lifestyle choice of many. But this will take decades to work through the system. It is of course critical to any form of UK economy recovery.

It will take many years to work through the system, so we ALL see the improvement. However, if the UK's history is anything to go by, the people who have been trapped at the bottom by Labour's policies, will be the ones who will be fooled into voting them back in before things have had long enough to fix, and the whole cycle of Labour damage, Conservative fixing yo yo begins again.

[Mermaid]

mrpurple said:

andymadmak said:

No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.

very well put.this thread may as well be locked now.

A 5 year freeze would be good start. CMD, are you listening - grow a pair and do what is right overall for British people.

[Digga]

Mermaid said:

A 5 year freeze would be good start. CMD, are you listening - grow a pair and do what is right overall for British people.

You know just considering the NHS alone, IMHO we are witnessing the first instance, in many generations, where individual's expectations of what their local facilities afford them is being reduced. Services key to everyday life; A&E and maternity wards, are being cut in many geographic areas.

We have a severe crisis in the welfare system. Blindly adding more obligations, without any evaluation of affordability - on either an individual or societal level - is irresponsible.

[Steffan]

Digga said:

Mermaid said:

A 5 year freeze would be good start. CMD, are you listening - grow a pair and do what is right overall for British people.

You know just considering the NHS alone, IMHO we are witnessing the first instance, in many generations, where individual's expectations of what their local facilities afford them is being reduced. Services key to everyday life; A&E and maternity wards, are being cut in many geographic areas.

We have a severe crisis in the welfare system. Blindly adding more obligations, without any evaluation of affordability - on either an individual or societal level - is irresponsible.

Indeed it is irresponsible but as yet the loonies of Ed Balls and Co are still in denial. Millipede similarly. I fervently hope that the reality will dawn slowly over the dimwitted Balls and Co and the Loonie left. The UK cannot afford the open cheque paid approach beloved of Socialists and paid for entirely by unremitting taxation on the UK workers and their families. This approach is making every working family in the UK significantly poorer. I do believe the realisation is at last percolating slowly through UK politics that the Welfare state has become unaffordable in the UK. But we are not home yet. It will take many years to effectively redress indeed decades in time. There are no simple fixes.

[einsign]

pcvdriver said:

einsign said:

1. I am an engineer so I will make a new part, either that or I will ask one of the neighbours from China to throw the bit I need over the wall.

1.1. Special tax or not if my lawnmower is superior to everyone elses people will buy it, and who imposes this special made up tax, not me?

2. Nonsense these people will buy my new mower/service now because its better than anyone elses, its just I have to throw them over the wall at the moment because I have no choice. plus my neighbours do want my mower, why wouldn't they. Think BMW etc.

3. The world is not complicated, we eat, breed, work, crap, sleep and die. Anything else is just fluff and bulsh:t. On a deserted island who would be your first survival friend, a politician?

4.

You obviously know the square route of sod-all about Dutch law then. For starters (leaving the legal aspect aside), they don't grow grow hash on their lawns - that would be like saying that that our Women's Institute grow cakes on theirs). They grow cannabis and they need to ask the permission from their neighbours, to make sure no-body will take offence to their activities. Contrary to popular belief, cannabis is still against the law in the Netherlands.

N o t. s u r e. i f. s e r i o u s .

[Yazar]

Quote of the day:

John Denham Labour MP and former close adviser to Ed Milliband said:

Many of the EU citizens who are entitled to come here are people we would reject if they came from anywhere else.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/02/la...

[Rovinghawk]

Mrr T said:

We do not have uncontrolled immigration. Immigration from outside the EU is very tightly controlled.

I like you. You're funny.

[menousername]

Digga said:

You know just considering the NHS alone, IMHO we are witnessing the first instance, in many generations, where individual's expectations of what their local facilities afford them is being reduced. Services key to everyday life; A&E and maternity wards, are being cut in many geographic areas.

We have a severe crisis in the welfare system. Blindly adding more obligations, without any evaluation of affordability - on either an individual or societal level - is irresponsible.

Agree completely. Partly due to immigration partly due to our own excesses. I envisage, and worry, about a UK where basic fundamental services are no longer guaranteed. A visit to the GP / A&E requires a surchage paid. Prescription medicine costs sky-rocketing. School places not guaranteed, etc. I worry that the quality of life as we know it is on the brink of becoming unsustainable. These are just random snippets that I worry about.

I think there are something like 2000 babies born in the UK every day! Each and every day! Thats approx 730,000 a year. A rough cost to the nhs for each delivery is £1500, unless I need my morning coffee to do the man-maths, I think that means a yearly cost of in excess of £1BN just in deliveries. Without then considering the need for teachers, school places, bricks & mortar, etc etc, jobs, pensions, etc etc.

How can anyone feel that the future UK is going to be a pleasant place to be?

[menousername]

Steffan said:

Indeed it is irresponsible but as yet the loonies of Ed Balls and Co are still in denial. Millipede similarly. I fervently hope that the reality will dawn slowly over the dimwitted Balls and Co and the Loonie left. The UK cannot afford the open cheque paid approach beloved of Socialists and paid for entirely by unremitting taxation on the UK workers and their families. This approach is making every working family in the UK significantly poorer. I do believe the realisation is at last percolating slowly through UK politics that the Welfare state has become unaffordable in the UK. But we are not home yet. It will take many years to effectively redress indeed decades in time. There are no simple fixes.

"Welfare State" includes pensions, nhs, school places etc, not just job seekers allowance. The LibCons are in just a tough place, they cannot achieve anything significantly different. But what they do want, and seem to be achieving, is a divide & conquer type dialogue permeating through society, pitting people against eachother.

We cannot get through this by attacking the poor for being poor. We cannot get through it by attacking jobseekers for not having a job. The Govt should lead by example, create an environment of prosperity, social mobility, job security, improved quality of life etc.

[Mermaid]

menousername said:

Digga said:

You know just considering the NHS alone, IMHO we are witnessing the first instance, in many generations, where individual's expectations of what their local facilities afford them is being reduced. Services key to everyday life; A&E and maternity wards, are being cut in many geographic areas.

We have a severe crisis in the welfare system. Blindly adding more obligations, without any evaluation of affordability - on either an individual or societal level - is irresponsible.

Agree completely. Partly due to immigration partly due to our own excesses. I envisage, and worry, about a UK where basic fundamental services are no longer guaranteed. A visit to the GP / A&E requires a surchage paid. Prescription medicine costs sky-rocketing. School places not guaranteed, etc. I worry that the quality of life as we know it is on the brink of becoming unsustainable. These are just random snippets that I worry about.

I think there are something like 2000 babies born in the UK every day! Each and every day! Thats approx 730,000 a year. A rough cost to the nhs for each delivery is £1500, unless I need my morning coffee to do the man-maths, I think that means a yearly cost of in excess of £1BN just in deliveries. Without then considering the need for teachers, school places, bricks & mortar, etc etc, jobs, pensions, etc etc.

How can anyone feel that the future UK is going to be a pleasant place to be?

Super glue all the entry doors into the UK for 5 years, while our infrastructure recovers.

Quoted from a Deloitte briefing

• Almost half of the new jobs created since 2010 have gone to foreign born workers.

• EU enlargement and the march of globalisation have led to a marked rise in the UK’s foreign born workforce. The proportion of people working in the UK who were not born here has risen from 9% in to 15% in the last 10 years. Over this time period foreign born workers have accounted for the great majority of the job growth in the UK.

[Mr_B]

Yazar said:

Quote of the day:

John Denham Labour MP and former close adviser to Ed Milliband said:

Many of the EU citizens who are entitled to come here are people we would reject if they came from anywhere else.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/02/la...

Blimey, a Labour MP talking sense and reality !
The current situation in this country is dumb and is pretty far from working at anywhere near it's best or providing immigration as the full benefit it should be.