The truth about immigration
Discussion
Mrr T said:
Digga said:
http://www.inequalitywatch.eu/spip.php?article99
Did I miss something? Did Spain at 20.7 and Greece at 20.1 move to Eastern Europe?Inequality watch said:
The highest rates, superior to 20 %, are observed in eastern Europe, in Romania and Bulgaria.
handpaper said:
Rovinghawk said:
I can answer yes to both.
If anyone visits, the road from Cartisoara to Pitesti is the one to plug into the satnav.
7C (mountain) or E81? The mountain route looks summer-only If anyone visits, the road from Cartisoara to Pitesti is the one to plug into the satnav.
What's so hard to understand ? The open EU door is doing only harm when you have no control. How can it be better to have 200k people where half just walk in and out as they please with no checks while the other half have to apply.
Whatever numbers you think immigration should be at, having some quality control would at least keep out those not needed, even on a basic level from simply stopping criminals.
As for Romania, well sorry, I don't feel the need to have a group of people given total access where they are already proven more trouble and less worth than immigrants from other countries.
With an equivalent arrest rate of already 1 in 3 for just the London area and a probably country wide figure of 1 in every 2 arrested, I need someone who supports open doors to tell me why I should put up with that when it runs between 10 and 15 times that of economically similar countries like France and Germany.
Tell me why it's worth that alone to get thousands of people who are economically nothing like immigrants from the USA and who are predominantly going to be unskilled and working dead-end jobs.
It may come as a shock to some here, but there is actually a big difference in the quality and type of immigrants coming,there is loads of German or French beggars on the street, no Americans sleeping rough and creating shanty towns on wasteland or beds in sheds down in Slough.
The reason people don't go on about the levels of French immigration is because they are vastly more likely to be educated people working professional jobs and who simply aren't noticed.
Have immigration,have it from Romania, have the debate about how many the UK can reasonably sustain each year with net figures, but the open door and no quality control is madness that can only result in a lesser result for the country as a whole.
Whatever numbers you think immigration should be at, having some quality control would at least keep out those not needed, even on a basic level from simply stopping criminals.
As for Romania, well sorry, I don't feel the need to have a group of people given total access where they are already proven more trouble and less worth than immigrants from other countries.
With an equivalent arrest rate of already 1 in 3 for just the London area and a probably country wide figure of 1 in every 2 arrested, I need someone who supports open doors to tell me why I should put up with that when it runs between 10 and 15 times that of economically similar countries like France and Germany.
Tell me why it's worth that alone to get thousands of people who are economically nothing like immigrants from the USA and who are predominantly going to be unskilled and working dead-end jobs.
It may come as a shock to some here, but there is actually a big difference in the quality and type of immigrants coming,there is loads of German or French beggars on the street, no Americans sleeping rough and creating shanty towns on wasteland or beds in sheds down in Slough.
The reason people don't go on about the levels of French immigration is because they are vastly more likely to be educated people working professional jobs and who simply aren't noticed.
Have immigration,have it from Romania, have the debate about how many the UK can reasonably sustain each year with net figures, but the open door and no quality control is madness that can only result in a lesser result for the country as a whole.
More proof that we have restricted the talent pool available to the UK by passport rather than actual ability.
When will Cameron finally admit that setting numerical targets on immigration will never work whilst our borders are still open to the EU.
When will Cameron finally admit that setting numerical targets on immigration will never work whilst our borders are still open to the EU.
Financial times said:
Visa curbs on highly skilled migrants hit UK talent pool
Government curbs on highly skilled migrants have shrunk the pool of international talent available to business and have also fallen short of their objective of controlling migration, new research indicates.
The study, carried out by the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, challenges David Cameron’s insistence that his party’s attempts to reduce net migration are still allowing the “brightest and the best” overseas workers into Britain.
Companies struggling to employ skilled staff from the US and emerging markets had already warned that they were increasingly looking within the EU for specialists who could not be found in the UK.
Conservative ministers have brought in a range of tighter curbs on working migrants in an effort to meet the prime minister’s 2010 promise of driving down net migration to the “tens of thousands” by the next election.
Figures released in May by the Office for National Statistics showed that net migration was now at 212,000 – more than double the figure ministers are trying to hit.
The study helps to explain why the stricter controls, started in 2011, have been only partially effective in helping meet the target: the 39 per cent drop in recruits from outside Europe has been countered by a 53 per cent rise in new arrivals of highly skilled migrants coming in from long-standing EU countries such as France, Germany and Spain.
Vince Cable, the business secretary, described the Migration Observatory’s findings as “deeply worrying”.
“The net migration target, which was not government policy, has clearly had a damaging impact on UK plc by reducing the talent pool available to companies based here,” he said.
“The harder we make it for international companies to employ the very best executives, the harder it is to sell the UK as a place to do business and foster employment opportunities.”
The Liberal Democrat business secretary – who has a history of clashing with his Tory Home Office counterpart, Theresa May, over immigration policy – added that investment decisions were “nationality blind”, but contingent on experts from overseas being able to “set up plants and factories, or forge new business links” in Britain.
Despite the increases from the EU, some businesses might still be facing a shortfall of expert employees, because the surge from Europe is not enough to make up for the drop from elsewhere.
Overall, the number of highly skilled migrant workers in the UK dropped 10 per cent, from 270,000 to 242,000, between 2011 and 2013, the data show. All the report’s figures, calculated using the UK Labour Force Survey, represent migrant workers who have been in Britain for less than three years, rather than the entire stock of overseas employees in the country.
Simon Walker, director-general at the Institute of Directors, said the fall in numbers of non-EU migrants and rise in skilled European migrants meant a “lose-lose situation”, which was “very much in contrast” to the government’s drive for productivity and competitiveness.
“I think it should cause real soul-searching in the Home Office because [their] intransigence on this issue is damaging the UK economy.?.?. They see their role to keep people out rather than to serve the broad economic needs of the UK as a whole,” said Mr Walker.
...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1019b05a-0202-11e4-9af7-00144feab7de.html#slide5Government curbs on highly skilled migrants have shrunk the pool of international talent available to business and have also fallen short of their objective of controlling migration, new research indicates.
The study, carried out by the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, challenges David Cameron’s insistence that his party’s attempts to reduce net migration are still allowing the “brightest and the best” overseas workers into Britain.
Companies struggling to employ skilled staff from the US and emerging markets had already warned that they were increasingly looking within the EU for specialists who could not be found in the UK.
Conservative ministers have brought in a range of tighter curbs on working migrants in an effort to meet the prime minister’s 2010 promise of driving down net migration to the “tens of thousands” by the next election.
Figures released in May by the Office for National Statistics showed that net migration was now at 212,000 – more than double the figure ministers are trying to hit.
The study helps to explain why the stricter controls, started in 2011, have been only partially effective in helping meet the target: the 39 per cent drop in recruits from outside Europe has been countered by a 53 per cent rise in new arrivals of highly skilled migrants coming in from long-standing EU countries such as France, Germany and Spain.
Vince Cable, the business secretary, described the Migration Observatory’s findings as “deeply worrying”.
“The net migration target, which was not government policy, has clearly had a damaging impact on UK plc by reducing the talent pool available to companies based here,” he said.
“The harder we make it for international companies to employ the very best executives, the harder it is to sell the UK as a place to do business and foster employment opportunities.”
The Liberal Democrat business secretary – who has a history of clashing with his Tory Home Office counterpart, Theresa May, over immigration policy – added that investment decisions were “nationality blind”, but contingent on experts from overseas being able to “set up plants and factories, or forge new business links” in Britain.
Despite the increases from the EU, some businesses might still be facing a shortfall of expert employees, because the surge from Europe is not enough to make up for the drop from elsewhere.
Overall, the number of highly skilled migrant workers in the UK dropped 10 per cent, from 270,000 to 242,000, between 2011 and 2013, the data show. All the report’s figures, calculated using the UK Labour Force Survey, represent migrant workers who have been in Britain for less than three years, rather than the entire stock of overseas employees in the country.
Simon Walker, director-general at the Institute of Directors, said the fall in numbers of non-EU migrants and rise in skilled European migrants meant a “lose-lose situation”, which was “very much in contrast” to the government’s drive for productivity and competitiveness.
“I think it should cause real soul-searching in the Home Office because [their] intransigence on this issue is damaging the UK economy.?.?. They see their role to keep people out rather than to serve the broad economic needs of the UK as a whole,” said Mr Walker.
...
I suppose lessons will be learned.
bbc said:
The Home Office has granted British citizenship to people with "very poor immigration histories", according to the chief borders inspector.
Citizenship was being approved without checking applicants' criminal records in their home country, John Vine found.
In one case, officials did not look at files showing an asylum seeker had killed someone in their home country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30432832Citizenship was being approved without checking applicants' criminal records in their home country, John Vine found.
In one case, officials did not look at files showing an asylum seeker had killed someone in their home country.
I'm sure all those reports saying how official immigration has a 'slight financial benefit', are taking into account all these costs...
Mail adds the details: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2876334/Sc...
summary from bbc said:
Roma school kids need more money spending on them as they are unruly, Ofsted also wants each local authority to employ a "dedicated and knowledgeable senior leader" (senior=£££'s) to look after strategy for this group (19,000 at the last count back in Jan, up 13.75% from last year)
Nice BBC summary: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30494269Mail adds the details: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2876334/Sc...
Edited by Yazar on Wednesday 17th December 13:41
Mr_B said:
As for Romania, well sorry, I don't feel the need to have a group of people given total access where they are already proven more trouble and less worth than immigrants from other countries.
With an equivalent arrest rate of already 1 in 3 for just the London area and a probably country wide figure of 1 in every 2 arrested, I need someone who supports open doors to tell me why I should put up with that when it runs between 10 and 15 times that of economically similar countries like France and Germany.
source? and err, meaning?With an equivalent arrest rate of already 1 in 3 for just the London area and a probably country wide figure of 1 in every 2 arrested, I need someone who supports open doors to tell me why I should put up with that when it runs between 10 and 15 times that of economically similar countries like France and Germany.
pork911 said:
source? and err, meaning?
I think the stats in this article play a fairly straight bat:http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-roma...
FactCheck said:
While the number and rate has dropped slightly, Romanians remain the fourth most numerous foreign group in the prison system, behind Poland (898 inmates) , Ireland (778) and Jamaica (711).
Digga said:
pork911 said:
source? and err, meaning?
I think the stats in this article play a fairly straight bat:http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-roma...
FactCheck said:
While the number and rate has dropped slightly, Romanians remain the fourth most numerous foreign group in the prison system, behind Poland (898 inmates) , Ireland (778) and Jamaica (711).
Its also interesting that the figures are all pre 2012. So relate to the period before Romanians and Bulgarians had a free right to work in the UK.
Telegraph said:
Britain is becoming one of most 'attractive' countries in the World for illegal immigrants, experts warn as Home Office reveals that almost 100 stowaways are being caught a day
The number of times migrants have been caught trying to enter Britain illegally has almost quadrupled over the past three years and reached nearly 3,000 a month, according to official figures.
Mr Vine said in his final annual report before stepping down that he was concerned by evidence of the Home Office’s shortcomings. It was "frustrating and disappointing" to encounter the same problems "over and over again", he added.
In a separate report which criticised the Home Office's programme to deal with immigrants who overstayed their visas, and follows another highly critical report which exposed how the department granted British citizenship to a convicted killer.
He said: "I still find too much evidence that the Home Office does not get the basics right. This includes the quality and consistency of decision making but also having caseworkers with the right skills, aligning resources to the right priorities and having high quality management information that provides a sound basis on which to make decisions on future strategy and resourcing.
"It can be both frustrating and disappointing, when I encounter the same issues over and over again."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...The number of times migrants have been caught trying to enter Britain illegally has almost quadrupled over the past three years and reached nearly 3,000 a month, according to official figures.
Mr Vine said in his final annual report before stepping down that he was concerned by evidence of the Home Office’s shortcomings. It was "frustrating and disappointing" to encounter the same problems "over and over again", he added.
In a separate report which criticised the Home Office's programme to deal with immigrants who overstayed their visas, and follows another highly critical report which exposed how the department granted British citizenship to a convicted killer.
He said: "I still find too much evidence that the Home Office does not get the basics right. This includes the quality and consistency of decision making but also having caseworkers with the right skills, aligning resources to the right priorities and having high quality management information that provides a sound basis on which to make decisions on future strategy and resourcing.
"It can be both frustrating and disappointing, when I encounter the same issues over and over again."
Mrr T said:
One word "Roma".
Its also interesting that the figures are all pre 2012. So relate to the period before Romanians and Bulgarians had a free right to work in the UK.
The article is fairly clear in stating that Home Office figures do not differentiate by race (i.e. Roma) but only by nationality (i.e. Romanian) but yes, as you say, there is generally a fairly clear problem with certain EU immigrant nations.Its also interesting that the figures are all pre 2012. So relate to the period before Romanians and Bulgarians had a free right to work in the UK.
My take on this is that were proper checks in place, the picture could be radically different. For many criminal immigrants the fact they are facing heat at home, combines with the opportunity to move to a new country (with even richer potential pickings and better benefits at that) it is easy to see they might have more motive to move than anyone else.
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