The truth about immigration
Discussion
voyds9 said:
0a said:
Why are we employing polish translators in schools?
Because the Romanians don't go to school.There is nothing wrong with 'good' immigration.
I'm happy to have doctors, bankers, chefs etc.
I don't want taxi drivers, cleaners, big issue sellers etc.
Edited by voyds9 on Tuesday 7th January 22:46
.
THIS ! ! !
We should be (have been) more selective in what the immigrants can bring to our country.
I always felt we needed the educated immigrants, for example university level, and checked by one of our own selected universities for the level achieved in their home country.
Nothing wrong with immigration, as long as it is beneficial to our country, sadly, much of the immigration is not beneficial to us.
I welcome the smart, and highly intelligent, highly skilled workers, be they from European countries or Asia, China, South Korea or wherever, but they should all require to undergo parallel education or work related skill testing prior to entry.
vette
0a said:
So 6x the wage, and that's a guy from Poland - how much higher will that be from Romania / Bulgaria.
Roughly 8x for Romania and Bulgaria. HTH.One of the points Farage made on the radio yesterday morning, prior to this documentary, was that immigration in sufficient numbers can and is creating ghettos, prevents integration and naturally breeds intollerance and misunderstanding.
As far as the 'official figures' go, let's all please take them with a healthy dose of skepticism, given that open borders and illegal immigration have been a fact of life for a decade or so, I don't really trust anyone to generate accurate data to support or refute either side of the debate.
Again, coming back to a point Farage made, setting economic benefits or not aside, his view - which seems to be shared by many in the Uk, both indigenous and immigrant - was that there should be other considerations, including the quality of life in the country and not only the raw GDP.
Digga said:
0a said:
So 6x the wage, and that's a guy from Poland - how much higher will that be from Romania / Bulgaria.
Roughly 8x for Romania and Bulgaria. HTH.One of the points Farage made on the radio yesterday morning, prior to this documentary, was that immigration in sufficient numbers can and is creating ghettos, prevents integration and naturally breeds intollerance and misunderstanding.
As far as the 'official figures' go, let's all please take them with a healthy dose of skepticism, given that open borders and illegal immigration have been a fact of life for a decade or so, I don't really trust anyone to generate accurate data to support or refute either side of the debate.
Again, coming back to a point Farage made, setting economic benefits or not aside, his view - which seems to be shared by many in the Uk, both indigenous and immigrant - was that there should be other considerations, including the quality of life in the country and not only the raw GDP.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-...
From a broader view to some of the points above, Farage said to Robinson yesterday "I don't want to live in a UK with a population of 75 million". No xenophobia, no racism, just a simple observation that the general quality of life would (will?) be awful at that point.
I have thought for years now that parts of the UK are hideously overpopulated, and how anyone thinks that we can take >5m more is completely beyond me. Roads are a prime example; never mind the general congestion levels, it often only takes one RTC of medium magnitude to bring everything within a large radius to it's knees, since there is usually only one obvious (and already full-to-capacity) route from A to B and as soon as that volume of traffic diverts onto the alternatives, everything blocks completely and all comes to a standstill.
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
I have thought for years now that parts of the UK are hideously overpopulated, and how anyone thinks that we can take >5m more is completely beyond me. Roads are a prime example; never mind the general congestion levels, it often only takes one RTC of medium magnitude to bring everything within a large radius to it's knees, since there is usually only one obvious (and already full-to-capacity) route from A to B and as soon as that volume of traffic diverts onto the alternatives, everything blocks completely and all comes to a standstill.
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
CAPP0 said:
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
'They' (in power) and their little empires are wedded to an expanding GDP and they see population growth as a way of sustaining it.The people in government seldom have to worry about getting stuck in traffic, booking trains months in advance, living next door to third world filth, queuing-up at their Gps surgery or A&E, and all of the other negatives symptoms that ordinary citizens experience, so why would they care, as long as they get a growing cut of a growing publis sector?
Digga said:
The people in government seldom have to worry about getting stuck in traffic, booking trains months in advance, living next door to third world filth, queuing-up at their Gps surgery or A&E, and all of the other negatives symptoms that ordinary citizens experience, so why would they care, as long as they get a growing cut of a growing publis sector?
Excellent suggestion - all MP's & their partners should spend a week living the life of the common man. 
. Every year.mrpurple said:
Mermaid said:
Excellent suggestion - all MP's & their partners should spend a week living the life of the common man. . Every year.....52 weeks of the year
....fixed that for you . Every year.....52 weeks of the year
CAPP0 said:
From a broader view to some of the points above, Farage said to Robinson yesterday "I don't want to live in a UK with a population of 75 million". No xenophobia, no racism, just a simple observation that the general quality of life would (will?) be awful at that point.
I have thought for years now that parts of the UK are hideously overpopulated, and how anyone thinks that we can take >5m more is completely beyond me. Roads are a prime example; never mind the general congestion levels, it often only takes one RTC of medium magnitude to bring everything within a large radius to it's knees, since there is usually only one obvious (and already full-to-capacity) route from A to B and as soon as that volume of traffic diverts onto the alternatives, everything blocks completely and all comes to a standstill.
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
Once again an argument which has two sides of which you only mention one. You may not want greater population density but the demographics of the UK do not look good without immigration. The UK birth rate is well below replacement level, but the population is living longer. Stopping immigration may reduce over crowding but the population would be increasingly elderly. The pensions and health care of this aging population would have to be supported by a decreasing number of the young. Immigrates tend to be younger so help to balance this tendency. If you are interested in the implications of almost no immigration look at Japan.I have thought for years now that parts of the UK are hideously overpopulated, and how anyone thinks that we can take >5m more is completely beyond me. Roads are a prime example; never mind the general congestion levels, it often only takes one RTC of medium magnitude to bring everything within a large radius to it's knees, since there is usually only one obvious (and already full-to-capacity) route from A to B and as soon as that volume of traffic diverts onto the alternatives, everything blocks completely and all comes to a standstill.
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
Digga said:
0a said:
So 6x the wage, and that's a guy from Poland - how much higher will that be from Romania / Bulgaria.
Roughly 8x for Romania and Bulgaria. HTH.One of the points Farage made on the radio yesterday morning, prior to this documentary, was that immigration in sufficient numbers can and is creating ghettos, prevents integration and naturally breeds intollerance and misunderstanding.
As far as the 'official figures' go, let's all please take them with a healthy dose of skepticism, given that open borders and illegal immigration have been a fact of life for a decade or so, I don't really trust anyone to generate accurate data to support or refute either side of the debate.
Again, coming back to a point Farage made, setting economic benefits or not aside, his view - which seems to be shared by many in the Uk, both indigenous and immigrant - was that there should be other considerations, including the quality of life in the country and not only the raw GDP.
A deaf person could tell you we are now overpopulated.
A blind man could hazard a reasonable guess at Witney's Polish population!!
Drove for nearly 2 hours while in Spain to get to the airport, no hold ups and free-moving traffic.
Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
Mrr T said:
CAPP0 said:
From a broader view to some of the points above, Farage said to Robinson yesterday "I don't want to live in a UK with a population of 75 million". No xenophobia, no racism, just a simple observation that the general quality of life would (will?) be awful at that point.
I have thought for years now that parts of the UK are hideously overpopulated, and how anyone thinks that we can take >5m more is completely beyond me. Roads are a prime example; never mind the general congestion levels, it often only takes one RTC of medium magnitude to bring everything within a large radius to it's knees, since there is usually only one obvious (and already full-to-capacity) route from A to B and as soon as that volume of traffic diverts onto the alternatives, everything blocks completely and all comes to a standstill.
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
Once again an argument which has two sides of which you only mention one. You may not want greater population density but the demographics of the UK do not look good without immigration. The UK birth rate is well below replacement level, but the population is living longer. Stopping immigration may reduce over crowding but the population would be increasingly elderly. The pensions and health care of this aging population would have to be supported by a decreasing number of the young. Immigrates tend to be younger so help to balance this tendency. If you are interested in the implications of almost no immigration look at Japan.I have thought for years now that parts of the UK are hideously overpopulated, and how anyone thinks that we can take >5m more is completely beyond me. Roads are a prime example; never mind the general congestion levels, it often only takes one RTC of medium magnitude to bring everything within a large radius to it's knees, since there is usually only one obvious (and already full-to-capacity) route from A to B and as soon as that volume of traffic diverts onto the alternatives, everything blocks completely and all comes to a standstill.
Overcrowding/over-subscription to public services is such a simple, fundamental point that I cannot for the life of me understand how those in power/control cannot see this?
dandarez said:
Agree. Statistics and official figures never tell the truth. Best way is to use your eyes and ears, then you'll know the real picture.
A deaf person could tell you we are now overpopulated.
A blind man could hazard a reasonable guess at Witney's Polish population!!
Drove for nearly 2 hours while in Spain to get to the airport, no hold ups and free-moving traffic.
Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
3 true stories of a recent daytrip to London - the place of my birth but moved out nearly 50 yrs ago:A deaf person could tell you we are now overpopulated.
A blind man could hazard a reasonable guess at Witney's Polish population!!
Drove for nearly 2 hours while in Spain to get to the airport, no hold ups and free-moving traffic.
Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
1. Tube station ticket office as spoken by the guy behind the window - you know mate your's is the 1st cockney voice I have heard today.....all my family have moved out of London and I can't wait to get out myself.
2. Coffee shop - not a single British voice to be heard from customers or staff and had to repeat / say pardon at least 3 times before it was clear what I had asked for had been understood.
3. Stopped in the street by a man in his late 60's wanting directions - flew in this morning, been living abroad last 15 years, overheard me talking with OH and could tell we were Londoners.
I pass no comment except to say the common thread as I see it - 3 people all uncomfortable and feeling lost in the city of their birth.
Guam said:
The declining population was a result of political policy by the main parties over the decades when Population concerns were the fashion, couple that with eliminating help for families through tax breaks, we are now being told by the same feckwits who caused the demographic crisis, that immigration on a vast scale is the solution.
Please forgive me if I find the whole issue a little less than honest!
There is no evidence for that at all. Birth rates have been falling in all developed countries for 30 years no matter what tax policies have been implemented.Please forgive me if I find the whole issue a little less than honest!
Mrr T said:
BMRuss said:
Well, it's the 8th of January and I must admit I haven't seen a Bulgarian, but in all fairness I have only been in Bulgaria for 8 days
As I have posted on another thread still seems to be lots of available air tickets if they want to book.Destroy the societies and communites and you destroy what we have and what the immigrants aspire to be part of. It seems 60% of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants want greater immigration controls.
31% of the overall population think immigration is good, but half of them want it to be controlled.
This is the truth about the UK today.
dandarez said:
Drove for nearly 2 hours while in Spain to get to the airport, no hold ups and free-moving traffic.
Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
So you compare a drive from Gatwick to one in some unnamed part of Spain. Great evidence. I have driven in Madrid its murder.Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
Mrr T said:
dandarez said:
Drove for nearly 2 hours while in Spain to get to the airport, no hold ups and free-moving traffic.
Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
So you compare a drive from Gatwick to one in some unnamed part of Spain. Great evidence. I have driven in Madrid its murder.Landed at Gatwick in very early hours. What is immediately apparent on over 100 mile journey home are the volumes of traffic - hardly any different to the rush hour!
We are overcrowded. Simples.
As he put it, it wasn't until he drove outside of the coutnry that he realised how bad things are. Here on PHcestershire, I am sure there are many of us who have made continental pilgrimages - Spa, the 'ring, Le Mans, etc. etc. - and had exactly the same sort of welcome home. I think it is disingenious to ignore the gist of dandarez' post.
As I said to my neighbour, it is only because so few UK drivers ever venture to the continent that sucessive governments have got away with mis-managing things as they have.
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