Minimum Wage,£7 an hour

Poll: Minimum Wage,£7 an hour

Total Members Polled: 313

Yes that would pay my cleaner: 6%
Wouldn't even cover the mortgage: 11%
Is that for the car: 4%
Easy living: 7%
Well wouldn't cover me doing it.: 5%
How the f@ck could someone liveon that?: 48%
Well wouldn't pay the mortgage i've got.: 5%
Peasants earn money? Don't tell the staff.: 13%
Author
Discussion

Vaud

50,283 posts

154 months

Sunday 21st September 2014
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
You still need line rental and a land line to get broadband. I pay about £30 for Plusnet landline and unlimited broadband (no TV) and a £15 SIM only contract which is pretty much the cheapest way to go about it
You don't need unlimited. For the basics in life you only need web access. Unlimited is a luxury.
And you don't need home and data sim. One or the other...

(I agree that web access is a necessity for services these days, but unlimited is not, and basic web services do not consume many GB a month)

Negative Creep

24,942 posts

226 months

Sunday 21st September 2014
quotequote all
Vaud said:
Negative Creep said:
You still need line rental and a land line to get broadband. I pay about £30 for Plusnet landline and unlimited broadband (no TV) and a £15 SIM only contract which is pretty much the cheapest way to go about it
You don't need unlimited. For the basics in life you only need web access. Unlimited is a luxury.
And you don't need home and data sim. One or the other...

(I agree that web access is a necessity for services these days, but unlimited is not, and basic web services do not consume many GB a month)
A quick look at Plusnet shows £19 for their basic package, and since I didn't include a TV Licence in my sums that negates any savings. You have to have a landline as part of the package as well, so you'll still end up with that and a mobile

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Vaud said:
Negative Creep said:
You still need line rental and a land line to get broadband. I pay about £30 for Plusnet landline and unlimited broadband (no TV) and a £15 SIM only contract which is pretty much the cheapest way to go about it
You don't need unlimited. For the basics in life you only need web access. Unlimited is a luxury.
And you don't need home and data sim. One or the other...

(I agree that web access is a necessity for services these days, but unlimited is not, and basic web services do not consume many GB a month)
Or..... IPhone 4s off gumtree £100, then a giff gaff sim £5 a month for 20meg broadband a month, enough to be contactable and email, find new work etc, assuming most service jobs are both transient and maybe minimum hours type contracts, then beign on the net/mobile phone is a necessity.

MrOrange

2,031 posts

252 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
johnS2000 said:
More employers will turn to agency and "0" hour contracts .
Partly. And also use outsource / freelancers where practicable.

The world of ancient productionised working practices are evolving in our post-industrial society and that's going to have a greater impact than £7 or £8 minimum wage. People are already working more flexible hours, becoming location agnostic and adjusting their expectations so outright cash is becoming less important than working environment, workplace flexibility and social/family empathy.

However, a couple working hard for 37hrs at 7 quid an hour will be touching £30k pa. .

KingNothing

3,159 posts

152 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
jonah35 said:
Live with a friend or partner and save £340pm on bills. But, rent somewhere for £350pm and save more. No need for a car. No need for mobile and internet. Do some evening work and/or work more hours.

Easily doable.

But, no one wants to do it.
Not everyone has a friend or partner to live with
My friend has just moved down to Leeds, and now lives with 3 other people she's never met before, there are options available to pretty much everyone, just alot of people want more than they are due.

Pebbles167

3,417 posts

151 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
My last job was in tool hire, i worked 50hour week and took home about £1000 a month. I must say it was pretty tough. When i left after a year i was in about £2k of (barely manageable) debt. I had a few luxuries, but if i'd have had a mortgage i simply wouldn't have been able to afford to pay it.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Pebbles167 said:
I must say it was pretty tough............ I had a few luxuries
Surely there's some contradiction here?

Funkycoldribena

7,379 posts

153 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
jonah35 said:
Live with a friend or partner and save £340pm on bills. But, rent somewhere for £350pm and save more. No need for a car. No need for mobile and internet. Do some evening work and/or work more hours.

Easily doable.

But, no one wants to do it.
You try it for a just a year then.

Cue tales of living on a can of beans for a month when younger.....

Digga

40,201 posts

282 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
What about those under 21's who are never going to have the qualifications or skills to climb the ladder? Someone has to be at the bottom
I was staggered to hear the crass simplicity of Labour ministers saying the increase in MW would 'cost nothing' because it would reduce reliance on benefit and increase tax contributions; absolutely no thought to the consequences of the firms that will have to employ these people. It is a zero sum game - if you increase one set of business overheads, then either firms go bust or otherwise reduce other spending, which may be capital or other forms of investment.

It is not the role of business and industry to find jobs for those the system have failed to educate.

Jacking the MW wage up may simply result in more indigenous unemployment as firms seek to gain more productivity - to compensate for higher wage costs - by actively recruiting immigrant workers. It's happening to an extent already.

The left are masters of the politics of unintended consequences. Economically and commercially dyslexic.

Pebbles167

3,417 posts

151 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
Pebbles167 said:
I must say it was pretty tough............ I had a few luxuries
Surely there's some contradiction here?
Sorry, should read "i had few luxuries" these luxuries were limited to a slightly sporty car and a mobile phone. Little else.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Pebbles167 said:
these luxuries were .......a mobile phone.
In fairness, a mobile phone is pretty much a necessity in the modern world.

Digga said:
It is not the role of business and industry to find jobs for those the system have failed to educate.
I don't see it as the system's failure to educate. The schools, etc. exist.
I see it as the individual's failure to accept education when it's available.

I agree that it's not the role of industry to compensate for that later.

soad

32,825 posts

175 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
Pebbles167 said:
these luxuries were .......a mobile phone.
In fairness, a mobile phone is pretty much a necessity in the modern world.
Yes, and a smartphone at that.
But some tariffs are eye-watering expensive (with a latest must-have iDevice etc).

KingNothing

3,159 posts

152 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
soad said:
Rovinghawk said:
Pebbles167 said:
these luxuries were .......a mobile phone.
In fairness, a mobile phone is pretty much a necessity in the modern world.
Yes, and a smartphone at that.
But some tariffs are eye-watering expensive (with a latest must-have iDevice etc).
Yep, mine is £70 a month :O that includes an ipad as well though. So glad it's up in October, moving over to giffgaff and just keeping my current phone, which chould save me a fk ton.

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
I still don't think it would be high enough. I did a bit of an experiment recently on trying to rent a house with the current minimum wage (which we'll call £1000 a month after tax), single male with no children.


Rent £500 a month
Council tax £80
Bills £100
Petrol and insurance £100
Food £60
Mobile and internet £50

=£890
If the minimum wage went up so that same single make took home say £1100 instead of £1000, what do you think will happen to the rent costs? They'll rise to meet the new demand. And people will be back to square one.

Digga

40,201 posts

282 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
oyster said:
Negative Creep said:
I still don't think it would be high enough. I did a bit of an experiment recently on trying to rent a house with the current minimum wage (which we'll call £1000 a month after tax), single male with no children.


Rent £500 a month
Council tax £80
Bills £100
Petrol and insurance £100
Food £60
Mobile and internet £50

=£890
If the minimum wage went up so that same single make took home say £1100 instead of £1000, what do you think will happen to the rent costs? They'll rise to meet the new demand. And people will be back to square one.
^This.

Just one single example of a whole raft of potential, unintended consequences that ensue when headline-grabbing politicians attempt to interfere in markets.

Another consideration would be the question "is someone who is worth employing at £x per hour still worth employing at £x+1 pounds per hour?" At some point, for some individuals, the sad but true answer is "no".

Murph7355

37,646 posts

255 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
...
I don't see it as the system's failure to educate. The schools, etc. exist.
I see it as the individual's failure to accept education when it's available.....
Which is a failure of....? Probably piss poor parenting and a belief that the state will bail them out if they don't try.

It makes you wonder when this whole cycle started. It's probably always been thus. Pre-welfare state I guess the people in this bracket relied on charitable hand outs and most others didn't think about them too much (other than donating to charities). It'd be interesting to see if the situation is worse or better post-welfare state introduction.

Either way, as many have pointed out this is a nonsense move by a politician wanting to score points rather than do something meaningful. Forcing a minimum payment for a service without fully looking at everything else is dumb. But it does appeal to those who have limited capacity to see the full implications.



Grandfondo

12,241 posts

205 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
The unavailability of council houses needs to be addressed,so means testing of the recipients should be introduced so once over a certain earnings thresh- hold the rent increases until it is more economical to buy so freeing up houses for the genuinely needy!

P.S. Why is a mobile phone an essential and if it is a £10 Tesco would suffice with a payg sim.

soad

32,825 posts

175 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
P.S. Why is a mobile phone an essential and if it is a £10 Tesco would suffice with a payg sim.
How else will any potential employers be able to contact you?

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
You can sort of understand why someone wouldn't want to room share etc, to pull in a paye minimum wage (if you can get one of these), because there is no light at the end of the tunnel, limited chance of promotion you would think, and no chane of buying a property etc. Talk about disenfranchised, work till you drop, a perfect storm.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
What about those under 21's who are never going to have the qualifications or skills to climb the ladder? Someone has to be at the bottom
If companies can afford to employ them, or to put it another way are allowed to pay them what they are currently worth, then they can acquire some skills. The minimum wage just pulls up the drawbridge.