Hero to Zero (Mo Farah content)?
Discussion
Some Gump said:
....sir mo has never come across in any interview i hav seen as anything other than a dedicated athlete, doting family man and inspiration to sporting youth....
Seriously??Mo comes across as an arrogant t
t. The more this rumbles on, the more fishy it smells. Strange that he couldn't just say 'Yep, I'm disappointed in this guy, lets move on...', but instead tried to spin his way out of it.My money's on him being found out & losing his knighthood.
Unfortunately for Mo it does look a bit dodgy. An event riddled with cheats, being in a very close training team where your training mate and ex coach and some medical staff were all caught cheating and Mo standing by them after whistleblower allegations became public.
It’s pretty unusual for a coach and team mate and doctors to be doping and others in the group not to be or not to know about it.
Sure there’s no evidence of Mo cheating but there wasn’t for Armstrong until he admitted it. Pro cycling saw many situations like this where the cheating was endemic in a team or squad not just a coach and doctor giving it to one athlete. It’s made worse when athletes like Mo stood by the coach and banned athletes and then said they didn’t know, which is highly unlikely.
It was a similar situation with usain bolt where Jamaican sprinting was/is riddled with cheating from top down but Bolt was somehow clean.
Very few ex dopers like Armstrong were actually caught by testing.
It’s pretty unusual for a coach and team mate and doctors to be doping and others in the group not to be or not to know about it.
Sure there’s no evidence of Mo cheating but there wasn’t for Armstrong until he admitted it. Pro cycling saw many situations like this where the cheating was endemic in a team or squad not just a coach and doctor giving it to one athlete. It’s made worse when athletes like Mo stood by the coach and banned athletes and then said they didn’t know, which is highly unlikely.
It was a similar situation with usain bolt where Jamaican sprinting was/is riddled with cheating from top down but Bolt was somehow clean.
Very few ex dopers like Armstrong were actually caught by testing.
Some Gump said:
BlackLabel said:
Before you assume this, maybe place yourself in his shoes for a second?he is repeatedly accused of chesting, with no evidence. He inn fwct has a huge history oftrsting showing he's not cheating.
How long shouldbe be able to out up with this before he lashes back in your opinion? He'll bethinking "why do they want to destroy me? Have i done anything wrong?" . He'lll go though all his actions, realise he's never acted like a t
t andall he is left with as an assumd motive of whatever is left. Which is a pity. Some people don't like hamilton because he's acted like a t
t, nothing to do with pigment. He'x come over really well this year though. I might have missed something but sir mo has never come across in any interview i hav seen as anything other than a dedicated athlete, doting family man and inspiration to sporting youth. That he can be hounded by journalists, who are as a profession on an equal footing with estate agents and taxi men is a sad case of affairs.El stovey said:
Unfortunately for Mo it does look a bit dodgy. An event riddled with cheats, being in a very close training team where your training mate and ex coach and some medical staff were all caught cheating and Mo standing by them after whistleblower allegations became public.
It’s pretty unusual for a coach and team mate and doctors to be doping and others in the group not to be or not to know about it.
Sure there’s no evidence of Mo cheating but there wasn’t for Armstrong until he admitted it. Pro cycling saw many situations like this where the cheating was endemic in a team or squad not just a coach and doctor giving it to one athlete. It’s made worse when athletes like Mo stood by the coach and banned athletes and then said they didn’t know, which is highly unlikely.
It was a similar situation with usain bolt where Jamaican sprinting was/is riddled with cheating from top down but Bolt was somehow clean.
Very few ex dopers like Armstrong were actually caught by testing.
There was loads of evidence of Armstrong cheating but a complete lack of will from the sport at the time to deal with it.It’s pretty unusual for a coach and team mate and doctors to be doping and others in the group not to be or not to know about it.
Sure there’s no evidence of Mo cheating but there wasn’t for Armstrong until he admitted it. Pro cycling saw many situations like this where the cheating was endemic in a team or squad not just a coach and doctor giving it to one athlete. It’s made worse when athletes like Mo stood by the coach and banned athletes and then said they didn’t know, which is highly unlikely.
It was a similar situation with usain bolt where Jamaican sprinting was/is riddled with cheating from top down but Bolt was somehow clean.
Very few ex dopers like Armstrong were actually caught by testing.
Dutch athlete Sifan Hassan had a serious rant on TV about being accused of cheating because of links to Salazar. I felt a bit sorry for her when I saw it but Michael Johnson was much less sympathetic and made the point that athletes need to be aware that any links to drugs will reflect badly on them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/49948731
El stovey said:
Unfortunately for Mo it does look a bit dodgy. An event riddled with cheats, being in a very close training team where your training mate and ex coach and some medical staff were all caught cheating and Mo standing by them after whistleblower allegations became public.
It’s pretty unusual for a coach and team mate and doctors to be doping and others in the group not to be or not to know about it.
Sure there’s no evidence of Mo cheating but there wasn’t for Armstrong until he admitted it. Pro cycling saw many situations like this where the cheating was endemic in a team or squad not just a coach and doctor giving it to one athlete. It’s made worse when athletes like Mo stood by the coach and banned athletes and then said they didn’t know, which is highly unlikely.
It was a similar situation with usain bolt where Jamaican sprinting was/is riddled with cheating from top down but Bolt was somehow clean.
Very few ex dopers like Armstrong were actually caught by testing.
Indeed. Armstrong wan't caught by testing, at least, when he failed tests, it didn't result in penalties.It’s pretty unusual for a coach and team mate and doctors to be doping and others in the group not to be or not to know about it.
Sure there’s no evidence of Mo cheating but there wasn’t for Armstrong until he admitted it. Pro cycling saw many situations like this where the cheating was endemic in a team or squad not just a coach and doctor giving it to one athlete. It’s made worse when athletes like Mo stood by the coach and banned athletes and then said they didn’t know, which is highly unlikely.
It was a similar situation with usain bolt where Jamaican sprinting was/is riddled with cheating from top down but Bolt was somehow clean.
Very few ex dopers like Armstrong were actually caught by testing.
The trick is not the doping itself, but making it past the tests. They are reactive, so the testers have to await the next tactic. That and the willful blindness of the press. I remember Liggett, ranting when the result of a test on a South American cyclist was leaked. It showed traces of a masking agent that was going to be banned after the TdF. Liggett ranted on about how unfair it was, and said nothing about the reasons why a cyclist should inject a masking agents that had no beneficial properties.
It wasn't until the press conference when Armstrong publicly attacked the journo who was trying to expose the level of drug taking in the sport that I started to be suspicious. Armstrong might as well had a sign in front of him saying liar.
Testing results mean nothing.
The sad thing is we won't know either way, but we might get another journo who goes against the 'you scratch my back' ethos, the one that kept Armstrong in place, and we discover that certain athletes did indeed take drugs.
I was very angry about Armstrong when it became obvious what he'd been doing. I think it was mainly because I'd been taken in completely by him. Since then, I've always been suspicious of those a long way ahead of their nearest rivals.
Some Gump said:
Before you assume this, maybe place yourself in his shoes for a second?
he is repeatedly accused of chesting, with no evidence. He inn fwct has a huge history oftrsting showing he's not cheating.
How long shouldbe be able to out up with this before he lashes back in your opinion? He'll bethinking "why do they want to destroy me? Have i done anything wrong?" . He'lll go though all his actions, realise he's never acted like a tt andall he is left with as an assumd motive of whatever is left.
Which is a pity. Some people don't like hamilton because he's acted like a tt, nothing to do with pigment. He'x come over really well this year though. I might have missed something but sir mo has never come across in any interview i hav seen as anything other than a dedicated athlete, doting family man and inspiration to sporting youth. That he can be hounded by journalists, who are as a profession on an equal footing with estate agents and taxi men is a sad case of affairs.
Well said he is repeatedly accused of chesting, with no evidence. He inn fwct has a huge history oftrsting showing he's not cheating.
How long shouldbe be able to out up with this before he lashes back in your opinion? He'll bethinking "why do they want to destroy me? Have i done anything wrong?" . He'lll go though all his actions, realise he's never acted like a t
t andall he is left with as an assumd motive of whatever is left. Which is a pity. Some people don't like hamilton because he's acted like a t
t, nothing to do with pigment. He'x come over really well this year though. I might have missed something but sir mo has never come across in any interview i hav seen as anything other than a dedicated athlete, doting family man and inspiration to sporting youth. That he can be hounded by journalists, who are as a profession on an equal footing with estate agents and taxi men is a sad case of affairs.
Derek Smith said:
I was very angry about Armstrong when it became obvious what he'd been doing. I think it was mainly because I'd been taken in completely by him. Since then, I've always been suspicious of those a long way ahead of their nearest rivals.
Me too. You see these amazing stories and want them to be true though. Some sports and countries are worse than others though.
Similar scenes in Vienna today with an athlete from an endurance sport and Kenya with loads of doping violations and on WADA watchlists doing something phenomenal and running a sub 2 hour marathon.
I’d love it to be true but the evidence although circumstantial again is pretty hard to ignore.
eldar said:
Randy Winkman said:
Whilst I'm sure that some drug cheats in athletics get away with it the fact that women can get nowhere near the world records for 100-800 meters suggest that something is working.
That’s okay then. No drugs problem. How did I miss that obvious sign?Do you have an opinion on how nobody has been able to get near Flo-Jo's world records for 30 years?
Randy Winkman said:
Do you have an opinion on how nobody has been able to get near Flo-Jo's world records for 30 years?
No saying she wasn't on the good stuff, she probably was, all the top ones were/are juiced to the gills. But it is also possible she found her perfect sport, the sweet spot. Usain wouldn't be top 10 in a 40 yard dash, but he will 99.99% win the 100 metres.This story reminds me of Carl Lewis, probably the biggest pos hypocrite in Olympic history, throwing shade on the Canadian, and sliming his way to gold, when he was on HGH and other goodies for all the 80s.
Then there's T8, possibly the fastest human we have on record.
JuniorD said:
Mo can hold his head high; transforming from a perennial also-ran to a world beater in multiple disciplines CLEAN in a doped up sport, with a doper coach and a doped training partner. Fortitude like that is why we made him a Sir!!
It's just vitamins and running on top of a mountain. All it takes.Halb said:
Randy Winkman said:
Do you have an opinion on how nobody has been able to get near Flo-Jo's world records for 30 years?
No saying she wasn't on the good stuff, she probably was, all the top ones were/are juiced to the gills. But it is also possible she found her perfect sport, the sweet spot. Usain wouldn't be top 10 in a 40 yard dash, but he will 99.99% win the 100 metres.This story reminds me of Carl Lewis, probably the biggest pos hypocrite in Olympic history, throwing shade on the Canadian, and sliming his way to gold, when he was on HGH and other goodies for all the 80s.
Then there's T8, possibly the fastest human we have on record.
I wonder if this is one of Mo's partners in crime mates: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/50025543
Randy Winkman said:
I don't think we disagree on that much here. All I'm really trying to say is that it looks to me like the sport is in a better place now than it was 30 years ago with regards drugs. Back then I'm not sure there was a hope of winning without them. Now, I hope there is. I should add that I am one of those that's suspicious of performances that go beyond the norm. But I'd never even post about it on here without evidence. My view on cycling is the same. Though being honest, I'm more confident of athletics than cycling - and I love cycling too.
Yeah. I wasn't actually disagreeing, just being a genuine devil's advocate. I do think she was on the best stuff as well as finding her sweet spot. In the 80's HGH was the new stuff while tests were being done for testosterone, then the tests caught up, but the people who want that professional advantage will always be ahead of the curve. The stuff they're on now will be known about in a few years I reckon.My own personal opinion is that it's a waste of time, and they should just come clean what they're on. That all PEDs should be allowed and we could advance our own understanding of the subject, instead of this sham world that has been created where we know 90% are doped but the charades of 'natural' is played out for the masses. It's almost as big a joke as politics/democracy and the lies we tell ourselves about that.
Randy Winkman said:
I said that some people probably still get away with it. Did you miss that too?
Do you have an opinion on how nobody has been able to get near Flo-Jo's world records for 30 years?
We had a team member at a previous rugby club of mine who put on masses of muscle over the summer break. He lacked much in the way of skill, but as second row he turned into something of a wall at the ruck. He had a few injuries - he put himself into the breech too often - and spent the last few matches on the sidelines. At the start of the following season he'd put on even more bulk and there was talk about putting him in the front row. However, a few matches into the season he was red carded for what was called aggressive behaviour. Our coach sidelines him for two more matches over the ban period. In a subsequent match he got a red card again and he was deselected as a registered team player for the remainder of the season. He'd changed completely in temperament. Off-pitch he was very aggressive and was threatened with exclusion from the club bar. Next I heard he'd had a heart attack, at 25 years old. Do you have an opinion on how nobody has been able to get near Flo-Jo's world records for 30 years?
My lad's anger was towards the RFU. He'd played at high level as a junior, captaining an under 19 England side touring Australia. He then played for a couple of teams at level 5 and 6. He was never tested for drugs. In a game where bulk not only helps, but is becoming an essential even on the wings, he thinks that's just asking for abuse of drugs.
The thing is that some athletes, whose early health problems, including death, came as a probable result of drugs abuse, are more more concerted about their legacy - and this includes relatives of deceased who are gaining an income in some cases from the name - in whatever sport they played in. Yet, had they come 'clean', it would have been a great legacy and would have resulted in a positive outcome.
Say something nasty about the above woman and drugs abuse and you will be sued. There is, after all, no evidence against her. So be general and not specific.
Halb said:
Randy Winkman said:
I don't think we disagree on that much here. All I'm really trying to say is that it looks to me like the sport is in a better place now than it was 30 years ago with regards drugs. Back then I'm not sure there was a hope of winning without them. Now, I hope there is. I should add that I am one of those that's suspicious of performances that go beyond the norm. But I'd never even post about it on here without evidence. My view on cycling is the same. Though being honest, I'm more confident of athletics than cycling - and I love cycling too.
Yeah. I wasn't actually disagreeing, just being a genuine devil's advocate. I do think she was on the best stuff as well as finding her sweet spot. In the 80's HGH was the new stuff while tests were being done for testosterone, then the tests caught up, but the people who want that professional advantage will always be ahead of the curve. The stuff they're on now will be known about in a few years I reckon.My own personal opinion is that it's a waste of time, and they should just come clean what they're on. That all PEDs should be allowed and we could advance our own understanding of the subject, instead of this sham world that has been created where we know 90% are doped but the charades of 'natural' is played out for the masses. It's almost as big a joke as politics/democracy and the lies we tell ourselves about that.
I can’t imagine sports where doping was openly allowed would attract the same money. Maybe in future it will be viewed like having better facilities or better equipment but it’s got a way to go that would happen I think.
Halb said:
Randy Winkman said:
I don't think we disagree on that much here. All I'm really trying to say is that it looks to me like the sport is in a better place now than it was 30 years ago with regards drugs. Back then I'm not sure there was a hope of winning without them. Now, I hope there is. I should add that I am one of those that's suspicious of performances that go beyond the norm. But I'd never even post about it on here without evidence. My view on cycling is the same. Though being honest, I'm more confident of athletics than cycling - and I love cycling too.
Yeah. I wasn't actually disagreeing, just being a genuine devil's advocate. I do think she was on the best stuff as well as finding her sweet spot. In the 80's HGH was the new stuff while tests were being done for testosterone, then the tests caught up, but the people who want that professional advantage will always be ahead of the curve. The stuff they're on now will be known about in a few years I reckon.My own personal opinion is that it's a waste of time, and they should just come clean what they're on. That all PEDs should be allowed and we could advance our own understanding of the subject, instead of this sham world that has been created where we know 90% are doped but the charades of 'natural' is played out for the masses. It's almost as big a joke as politics/democracy and the lies we tell ourselves about that.
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