Hero to Zero (Mo Farah content)?

[Steffan]

Derek Smith said:

Watchman said:

I think the whole concept of nationality is becoming anachronistic if we accepted him as British in the first place. Don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with it other than to ask whether nationality should be judged on criteria other place of birth (as it seems to be).

Do we need to judge anything? Why not just opt for a country and then be stuck with it for a year or perhaps two. So there would be an English team for whatever sport.

For instance, if you believe you will not make the first squad for, say, English rugby without international experience then you could have you pick of the second level nations, or one of the emerging ones, like Scotland. After a season, then move on.

I'm half Irish so, if I'd been any good at rugby, I could have played for them despite only ever visiting for two weeks on holiday. That's rather silly. I had an uncle who was told he could have played football for Scotland as he'd been born in Berwick.

I've got my doubts about one or two players in the England first XV. I can't believe they were all born here.

I've got a Japanese daughter-in-law, an Irish son-in-law and my younger son's girlfriend can claim Polish nationality.

This is the 21st century. People move about.

I'm a big fan of F1 but it irritates me to hear anthems for the teams being played. What is that based on?

I am inclined to agree. With the major changes in demographics across the world the old concept of nationality as a distinct form is outmoded. Providing the travelers adopt the "When in Rome approach" appropriately whilst abroad I have no problems with that. The taxation concerns are exacerbated by the gorging of politicians on the income of the taxpayers which must be constrained in the interest of sensible economics. Once that begins the interest of politicians in tax avoidance will cease. Up to the individual where they live, where they earn and where they pay tax.

[Eric Mc]

fblm said:

The IRS is a nightmare for Americans, particularly those with foreign interests but so long as he remains an alien its relatively easy to leave, he just files a 1040c, pays any taxes due and leaves. The whole discussion around him 'avoiding tax' is a nonsense, I'll wager his effective tax rate remains about the same (or higher depending on Oregons tax rate and double taxation treatment) the complexity of his returns is about to go through the roof though! The US is not a place one takes up residence to to avoid taxes!

Domicile is tricky (sometimes)
Residence is less tricky (usually)

[pork911]

Eric Mc said:

pork911 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm struggling to imagine how anyone could be a nondom because of their place of birth?

That's the basis of establishing your country of domicile.

It is automatically initially based on where you were born.

If you want to change your country of domicile, you have to take fairly extreme measures to ensure you abandon your original domicile.

Where you actually live is only one small part of the factors that are looked at when a person is trying to change their country of domicile.

Note "domicile" and "residence" are very different concepts in law.

I'm fairly aware thank you - and It's not where you were born that is automatically your initial domicile but that's by the by, regardless I perhaps I should have been clearer.

Where you were born has no relevance to whether you are nondom for HMRC purposes.

[Amirhussain]

Bill said:

obob said:

Bloody foreigners, coming here, taking our medals.

It's worse than that, the ungrateful bd won our race for us.

fking

[davepoth]

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpa...

This is why - if Farah is paying tax in the USA, he's paying double on a lot of his income. That isn't fair, he feels he needs to be in Oregon for training (and it has worked well for him), and so I think this is acceptable. If the USA didn't have their crazy tax rule and he was moving to a cheaper tax regime just because it was cheaper, I'd be a bit miffed.

[toohuge]

davepoth said:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpa...

This is why - if Farah is paying tax in the USA, he's paying double on a lot of his income. That isn't fair, he feels he needs to be in Oregon for training (and it has worked well for him), and so I think this is acceptable. If the USA didn't have their crazy tax rule and he was moving to a cheaper tax regime just because it was cheaper, I'd be a bit miffed.

Why would you be miffed if he was paying less tax? If he's just following the rules as everyone else, the numeric value of tax should be irrelevant no?

[Digga]

Derek Smith said:

I'm a big fan of F1 but it irritates me to hear anthems for the teams being played. What is that based on?

You have to admit though, when Ruebens Barichello racer for the prancing horse, it was good entertainment seeing him do his comedy slipping on a banaskin routine in time to the cymbal clashes of the Itlain anthem.

[Oakey]

Digga said:

ou have to admit though, when Ruebens Barichello racer for the prancing horse, it was good entertainment seeing him do his comedy slipping on a banaskin routine in time to the cymbal clashes of the Itlain anthem.

It would have been easier to just type 'Ferrari'

[Digga]

Oakey said:

Digga said:

ou have to admit though, when Ruebens Barichello racer for the prancing horse, it was good entertainment seeing him do his comedy slipping on a banaskin routine in time to the cymbal clashes of the Itlain anthem.

It would have been easier to just type 'Ferrari'

At least I spelled "prancing horse" correctly, unlike the word "Italian".

[emicen]

Terminator X said:

Shocking that he's looking to reduce his tax bill by legitimate means?

TX.

Seeing as the BBC are the government's primary tool in trying to brainwash the public that avoidance is the new evasion...

[DonkeyApple]

Silent1 said:

As another thought, won't he be paying tax in the us?

Because of the length of time he resides in the US and because that is where he earns his money, he is not a UK tax payer in reality anyway. By going offshore he is avoiding US taxes rather than UK.

[DonkeyApple]

Eric Mc said:

Top professional sports stars have lived in tax havens for years. Jersey is popular with golfers. SIR Jackie Stewart spent much of his life in Switzerland. Other great "Brits", many beknighted, have lived abroad to avoid UK taxes in the past (Sean Connery, Michael Caine, David Coulthard etc etc). The list is long.

Mo isn't exactly in a tax haven.

Let's face reality here, almost every single TV and media personality in the UK is partaking in serial avoidance schemes. The media industry and its workers don't pay tax, neither do sporting professionals. I blame the bankers.

[Some Gump]

Is it the celebrities fault, or the tax system?

The leftists ignore it, but if you take so much away from the highest earners, it's obvious that at some point they'll feel abused and leave.

look at Monaco - low tax rate, loads of cash. Why did all of it's tax domiciles leave their birth countries?

[XCP]

The only reason he is in Oregon is because that is where his coach is. Complete non story.

[Steffan]

DonkeyApple said:

Eric Mc said:

Top professional sports stars have lived in tax havens for years. Jersey is popular with golfers. SIR Jackie Stewart spent much of his life in Switzerland. Other great "Brits", many beknighted, have lived abroad to avoid UK taxes in the past (Sean Connery, Michael Caine, David Coulthard etc etc). The list is long.

Mo isn't exactly in a tax haven.

Let's face reality here, almost every single TV and media personality in the UK is partaking in serial avoidance schemes. The media industry and its workers don't pay tax, neither do sporting professionals. I blame the bankers.

I would agree with you. However I do think Tax avoidance is rising in the UK directly with the enormous change there has been in the coming and going of ordinary people internationally to reach the current levels. Using Eric Mc's listing above Sean Connery, Michael Caine, David Coulthard, Sir Jackie Stewart and adding Lewis Hamilton, Jensen Button and indeed Mo Farah etc etc have all massively protected their earnings by offshore tax avoidance. I see nothing wrong with these examples because their avoidance has been achieved lawfully. Many in our country now spend the winters abroad and IMO good luck to them. I see a permanent change coming in UK taxation where using complex structures to effect tax avoidance becomes commonplace in the UK, particularly amongst those who travel widely abroad. This seems a matter of personal choice to me providing the avoidance is declared and legal. The Revenue will not bite the bullet of the Rangers avoidance case. On we go: in volume.

[obob]

XCP said:

The only reason he is in Oregon is because that is where his coach is. Complete non story.

As has been said about a hundred times but the righty lefty bks is appearing again. Can anyone on this forum make a reasoned argument? Lefties this and those on the right of this blah blah blah. Its like watching little children.

[Some Gump]

obob said:

As has been said about a hundred times but the righty lefty bks is appearing again. Can anyone on this forum make a reasoned argument? Lefties this and those on the right of this blah blah blah. Its like watching little children.

Quite difficult to do when discussing taxation IMO. Those that want the lower tax / smaller government on the right, the higher tax / higher spend on the left. Any discussion on the taxation level of the highest earners is by definition a right / left discussion.

[JuniorD]

Mo seems like a dead-on fella, leave him alone! For putting up with the bake on his missus, he deserves another madal.

[anonymous-user]

DonkeyApple said:

Because of the length of time he resides in the US and because that is where he earns his money, he is not a UK tax payer in reality anyway. By going offshore he is avoiding US taxes rather than UK.

That makes no sense at all. He hasn't gone 'offshore', he's moved to Oregon. If he applies for a green card OR the total of days in the US this year + 1/3 last year + 1/6 the previous year add up to 183 then he is resident in the US and will pay federal and state taxes on his worldwide income. If he does not meet either test he'll pay US taxes on his US income. He is not avoiding any taxes, if anything he'll be paying more due to the lack of state tax double tax credit.

[DonkeyApple]

Steffan said:

DonkeyApple said:

Eric Mc said:

Top professional sports stars have lived in tax havens for years. Jersey is popular with golfers. SIR Jackie Stewart spent much of his life in Switzerland. Other great "Brits", many beknighted, have lived abroad to avoid UK taxes in the past (Sean Connery, Michael Caine, David Coulthard etc etc). The list is long.

Mo isn't exactly in a tax haven.

Let's face reality here, almost every single TV and media personality in the UK is partaking in serial avoidance schemes. The media industry and its workers don't pay tax, neither do sporting professionals. I blame the bankers.

I would agree with you. However I do think Tax avoidance is rising in the UK directly with the enormous change there has been in the coming and going of ordinary people internationally to reach the current levels. Using Eric Mc's listing above Sean Connery, Michael Caine, David Coulthard, Sir Jackie Stewart and adding Lewis Hamilton, Jensen Button and indeed Mo Farah etc etc have all massively protected their earnings by offshore tax avoidance. I see nothing wrong with these examples because their avoidance has been achieved lawfully. Many in our country now spend the winters abroad and IMO good luck to them. I see a permanent change coming in UK taxation where using complex structures to effect tax avoidance becomes commonplace in the UK, particularly amongst those who travel widely abroad. This seems a matter of personal choice to me providing the avoidance is declared and legal. The Revenue will not bite the bullet of the Rangers avoidance case. On we go: in volume.

All avoidance is legal.

The chaps McE mentioned achieved a change in tax status via changing their domicile etc but what is overlooked is that most avoidance is achieved without needing such changes and it is manifest within the media and sporting industry.

There has been a crackdown on the non Govt sanctioned schemes and many well known individuals have had it suggested in private that their participation in schemes could preclude them from likely honours but most celebs still use image schemes as well as other income schemes to avoid tax, all perfectly legally.

I guess my point is that the very people who have bought into the banker bashing episode fail to appreciate that unlike bankers none of their beloved celebs pay anywhere near full tax. The media needs to shine a spotlight on itself as well as its favourite whipping boys.