Stealing food from supermarket dustbins.
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
Then that needs a re-think. Theft requires an 'intention to permanently deprive'.
Surely by the time you've put something in your bin, you've made it clear that you've an intention to permanently deprive yourself of that item, so shouldn't have an interest in what anyone else does with it.
OK. The company next door to me is an engineering works. They have "bins" of metal swarf, cutting waste etc divided into aluminium, stainless steel and mild steel. Every so often these bins get emptied by a contractor who collects it and pays the engineers for the value of the weighed-in scrap. Surely by the time you've put something in your bin, you've made it clear that you've an intention to permanently deprive yourself of that item, so shouldn't have an interest in what anyone else does with it.
So it would be OK for anyone who fancies making a bit of extra cash to climb the fence, collect the metal and then sell it on to a scrap yard?
Or to climb into Iceland's compound, steal some food and sell it on to neighbors/markets?
boyse7en said:
OK. The company next door to me is an engineering works. They have "bins" of metal swarf, cutting waste etc divided into aluminium, stainless steel and mild steel. Every so often these bins get emptied by a contractor who collects it and pays the engineers for the value of the weighed-in scrap.
So it would be OK for anyone who fancies making a bit of extra cash to climb the fence, collect the metal and then sell it on to a scrap yard?
Or to climb into Iceland's compound, steal some food and sell it on to neighbors/markets?
That analogy works if Iceland are paid for their waste rather than paying to have it removed. So it would be OK for anyone who fancies making a bit of extra cash to climb the fence, collect the metal and then sell it on to a scrap yard?
Or to climb into Iceland's compound, steal some food and sell it on to neighbors/markets?
boyse7en said:
SpeckledJim said:
Then that needs a re-think. Theft requires an 'intention to permanently deprive'.
Surely by the time you've put something in your bin, you've made it clear that you've an intention to permanently deprive yourself of that item, so shouldn't have an interest in what anyone else does with it.
OK. The company next door to me is an engineering works. They have "bins" of metal swarf, cutting waste etc divided into aluminium, stainless steel and mild steel. Every so often these bins get emptied by a contractor who collects it and pays the engineers for the value of the weighed-in scrap. Surely by the time you've put something in your bin, you've made it clear that you've an intention to permanently deprive yourself of that item, so shouldn't have an interest in what anyone else does with it.
So it would be OK for anyone who fancies making a bit of extra cash to climb the fence, collect the metal and then sell it on to a scrap yard?
Or to climb into Iceland's compound, steal some food and sell it on to neighbors/markets?
If that particular business is selling their waste metal, then by definition they aren't throwing it away, are they?
If they were throwing it away, then why would they care who took it?
Now think about it again in the context of needlessly hungry poor people, and needlessly swollen landfill.
SpeckledJim said:
Now think about it again in the context of needlessly hungry poor people, and needlessly swollen landfill.
There is nothing special about food. All waste is waste. People just get emotional about supermarkets.We could always invite the hungry to go and pick up sheep which have died on farms and can't be sent for "official" slaughter. Or they could go to potato fields and pick up the damaged/too small spuds.
In reality it just doesn't make sense. If we a have food standards we need them applied universally - in the same way that old cars aren't let off having an MOT just so that poor people can afford to run them.
Ozzie Osmond said:
SpeckledJim said:
Now think about it again in the context of needlessly hungry poor people, and needlessly swollen landfill.
There is nothing special about food. All waste is waste. People just get emotional about supermarkets.We could always invite the hungry to go and pick up sheep which have died on farms and can't be sent for "official" slaughter. Or they could go to potato fields and pick up the damaged/too small spuds.
In reality it just doesn't make sense. If we a have food standards we need them applied universally - in the same way that old cars aren't let off having an MOT just so that poor people can afford to run them.
Would I eat unopened food from a bin if the alternative was another night on the street with hunger to worry about, on top of all my other problems? Dead right I would.
There's a moral issue with a civilised society that on one hand tolerates homelessness and hunger, and on the other hand grows, processes, stores, transports, stocks, heats/cooks/chills, throws away and finally destroys huge amounts of food, without putting it under the nose of those who desperately need it.
And worse, makes a criminal of anyone who tries to do anything about it.
SpeckledJim said:
Err, no. Wake up at the back.
If that particular business is selling their waste metal, then by definition they aren't throwing it away, are they?
If they were throwing it away, then why would they care who took it?
Now think about it again in the context of needlessly hungry poor people, and needlessly swollen landfill.
Now, now! Pay attention!If that particular business is selling their waste metal, then by definition they aren't throwing it away, are they?
If they were throwing it away, then why would they care who took it?
Now think about it again in the context of needlessly hungry poor people, and needlessly swollen landfill.
How do you know which particular bins outside a business premises are goods thrown away vs goods being paid for by a third-party removal?
For all you know the bins out the back of Iceland might by emptied by a Biowaste collection company and Iceland get paid for them.
I agree the wastage of food is an issue that needs addressing. I also agree that there are people who are hungry.
I don't agree that the best way for those issues to be addresses is to allow anyone to break into a locked compound, rifle through waste bins and collect stuff.
SpeckledJim said:
Food standards are a personal thing. Some people will scrape the mould off the cheese and carry on, some won't.
Would I eat unopened food from a bin if the alternative was another night on the street with hunger to worry about, on top of all my other problems? Dead right I would.
There's a moral issue with a civilised society that on one hand tolerates homelessness and hunger, and on the other hand grows, processes, stores, transports, stocks, heats/cooks/chills, throws away and finally destroys huge amounts of food, without putting it under the nose of those who desperately need it.
And worse, makes a criminal of anyone who tries to do anything about it.
Beautifully put.Would I eat unopened food from a bin if the alternative was another night on the street with hunger to worry about, on top of all my other problems? Dead right I would.
There's a moral issue with a civilised society that on one hand tolerates homelessness and hunger, and on the other hand grows, processes, stores, transports, stocks, heats/cooks/chills, throws away and finally destroys huge amounts of food, without putting it under the nose of those who desperately need it.
And worse, makes a criminal of anyone who tries to do anything about it.
Boydie88 said:
Hard to see how the CPS could continue after that.drivetrain said:
B17NNS said:
SpeckledJim said:
Food standards are a personal thing. Some people will scrape the mould off the cheese and carry on, some won't.
Would I eat unopened food from a bin if the alternative was another night on the street with hunger to worry about, on top of all my other problems? Dead right I would.
There's a moral issue with a civilised society that on one hand tolerates homelessness and hunger, and on the other hand grows, processes, stores, transports, stocks, heats/cooks/chills, throws away and finally destroys huge amounts of food, without putting it under the nose of those who desperately need it.
And worse, makes a criminal of anyone who tries to do anything about it.
Beautifully put.Would I eat unopened food from a bin if the alternative was another night on the street with hunger to worry about, on top of all my other problems? Dead right I would.
There's a moral issue with a civilised society that on one hand tolerates homelessness and hunger, and on the other hand grows, processes, stores, transports, stocks, heats/cooks/chills, throws away and finally destroys huge amounts of food, without putting it under the nose of those who desperately need it.
And worse, makes a criminal of anyone who tries to do anything about it.
Many on here (myself included) will never know the pangs of hunger or the despair of homelessness and destitution. If food has been chucked out it should be available to those unfortunate enough to need it to survive.
If you really want to find someone to blame its the fact they did that and now the supermarkets are scared to give out food again and lock it down as a result of that one/many greed that messed it up for them all, now they throw it away.
Mobile Chicane said:
Really?
I don't recall that ever happening. I worked on the deli counter at Tesco as a student Saturday job, and absolutely everything that went out of date on a given day had to be binned.
Not given away - even to staff - but binned.
Tesco crack me upI don't recall that ever happening. I worked on the deli counter at Tesco as a student Saturday job, and absolutely everything that went out of date on a given day had to be binned.
Not given away - even to staff - but binned.
The local express one to us bins all its "fresh bakery stuff at 8pm every evening
The co op sells it off cheaper till half hour before closing
Tesco closes at 11pm
dandarez said:
You will find that this food is not under any such heading of unfit for human consumption (or what you said, fit to eat or not fit to eat). Much of it is still packaged, unopened.
It is dumped simply because of one reason - a 'labeling' system that gives a BBD or SBD.
When I worked at a supermarket, we had to label all food to be thrown away with unfit for human consumption stickers, and lock the bins. The logic being that if someone stole it and ate it, they could sue if they got ill.It is dumped simply because of one reason - a 'labeling' system that gives a BBD or SBD.
I don't know if it was legally 'unfit for human consumption' but it certainly was labelled as such.
Edited by Robb F on Wednesday 29th January 15:50
NPI said:
Boydie88 said:
Hard to see how the CPS could continue after that.Iceland are borderline advocating people stealing their waste - if that is the case why not give it away? I appreciate they are stuck between 2 rocks - don't want to seem liek the bad guy but on the other hand they may regret their words when 20,000 freegans ro whatever start rummaging around their bins.
Mojooo said:
NPI said:
Boydie88 said:
Hard to see how the CPS could continue after that.Iceland are borderline advocating people stealing their waste - if that is the case why not give it away? I appreciate they are stuck between 2 rocks - don't want to seem liek the bad guy but on the other hand they may regret their words when 20,000 freegans ro whatever start rummaging around their bins.
A small, quick piece of legislation protecting people and corporations who make the eminently sensible and benevolent decision to feed the poor for free.
This situation is so stupid I want to cry.
Are they not actually being charged with theft? BBC article states:
"At a court hearing in November, the men denied being found in or upon enclosed premises, contrary to section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824"
As for the items taken, the value wasn't around £30, it was rubbish and had no value or Iceland wouldn't have been throwing it away.
Will Iceland CEO be a witness for the defence?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-259450...
"At a court hearing in November, the men denied being found in or upon enclosed premises, contrary to section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824"
As for the items taken, the value wasn't around £30, it was rubbish and had no value or Iceland wouldn't have been throwing it away.
Will Iceland CEO be a witness for the defence?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-259450...
mgtony said:
Are they not actually being charged with theft? BBC article states:
"At a court hearing in November, the men denied being found in or upon enclosed premises, contrary to section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824"
Part of it is that they have to be there for unlawful purposes. The CPS will preumeably assert that taking the food/waste was unlawful."At a court hearing in November, the men denied being found in or upon enclosed premises, contrary to section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824"
Mobile Chicane said:
Really?
I don't recall that ever happening. I worked on the deli counter at Tesco as a student Saturday job, and absolutely everything that went out of date on a given day had to be binned.
Not given away - even to staff - but binned.
You have to think outside the box. I don't recall that ever happening. I worked on the deli counter at Tesco as a student Saturday job, and absolutely everything that went out of date on a given day had to be binned.
Not given away - even to staff - but binned.
I used to work the grill at a busy McD's during weekends and school holidays. If realised that by volunteering to do the waste count (this was obviously and ongoing thing with fast food preparation) I could get a free 'just out of time' burger to eat while I was doing it that was no different to buying the same 5 mins earlier and walking 5 mins to the park/office to eat it. Never did me any harm.
Moooo!
SpeckledJim said:
Surely this is now an easy opportunity for some for sensible government.?
A small, quick piece of legislation protecting people and corporations who make the eminently sensible and benevolent decision to feed the poor for free.
This situation is so stupid I want to cry.
Prosecution dropped - so lets see if Iceland complain if any future cases.A small, quick piece of legislation protecting people and corporations who make the eminently sensible and benevolent decision to feed the poor for free.
This situation is so stupid I want to cry.
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