British public wrong about nearly everything...
Discussion
As I mentioned, I have no great regard for the Indy, and hardly ever look at it. Its influence is, I suspect, quite small, as it does not have a high circulation. The high circulation Mail is more harmful, I think, because it contributes to the population being ill informed, and a democracy needs a well informed population. The Mail also sows division and promotes suspicion of others. It has been the same throughout its existence, so its pro Hitler past and the Zinoviev letter (using a forgery to bring down an elected government) are not mere historical anecdotes.
Breadvan72 said:
As I mentioned, I have no great regard for the Indy, and hardly ever look at it. Its influence is, I suspect, quite small, as it does not have a high circulation. The high circulation Mail is more harmful, I think, because it contributes to the population being ill informed, and a democracy needs a well informed population.
No worse than The Guardian, see under Toynbee and Monbiot, or the Independent, see under Hari.Breadvan72 said:
The Mail also sows division and promotes suspicion of others.
In your view. This is sounding like the BBC scenario where they ended up admitting that mot mentioning the immigration word wasn't appropriate.Breadvan72 said:
It has been the same throughout its existence, so its pro Hitler past and the Zinoviev letter (using a forgery to bring down an elected government) are not mere historical anecdotes.
Godwin's is a bit much in 2014. You're protesting far too much.It's fashionable in some quarters to attack the Daily Mail, we see it a lot on PH, if fashion is your concern more than anything elst then that makes sense but most of the people criticising the Mail most of the time on here don't understand the difference between primary and secondary sources (not aimed at you) and offer nothing but knee-jerks.
The BBC refusal to air divided views on immigration has ended up encouraging the very racism it was intended to crush
Allison Pearson said:
How did you react to Nick Clegg’s admission that the UK has accepted around 1,500 Syrian refugees? Was it: a) This country’s full, send the scroungers back? Or b) Good, but why only 1,500? That seems a very small number given the appalling situation those poor souls are in.
I know my country or, at least, I still believe in the basic decency of its people, and I would bet my new Christmas Dreamland electric blanket that the majority of Britons would say b).
The present anger about immigration is not directed against desperate asylum seekers or even immigrants themselves. As BBC political editor Nick Robinson pointed out in his refreshingly forthright BBC2 programme, The Truth About Immigration, it’s largely the result of uncontrolled mass immigration over the past decade and the failure of the BBC and the political class to permit an open debate about what it was fair or reasonable for this island to absorb.
My emphasis. Thank goodness there's been a more open debate somewhere. Where was that again?I know my country or, at least, I still believe in the basic decency of its people, and I would bet my new Christmas Dreamland electric blanket that the majority of Britons would say b).
The present anger about immigration is not directed against desperate asylum seekers or even immigrants themselves. As BBC political editor Nick Robinson pointed out in his refreshingly forthright BBC2 programme, The Truth About Immigration, it’s largely the result of uncontrolled mass immigration over the past decade and the failure of the BBC and the political class to permit an open debate about what it was fair or reasonable for this island to absorb.
Breadvan72 said:
Must have said lots and lots in support on the IndependentAs I mentioned, I have no great regard for the Indy, and hardly ever look at it. Its influence is, I suspect, quite small, as it does not have a high circulation. The high circulation Mail is more harmful, I think, because it contributes to the population being ill informed, and a democracy needs a well informed population. The Mail also sows division and promotes suspicion of others. It has been the same throughout its existence, so its pro Hitler past and the Zinoviev letter (using a forgery to bring down an elected government) are not mere historical anecdotes.
The Mail online is a tremendous success story. It's figures are quite remarkable. But it does this by preaching to the converted and highlighting salacious gossip and girls in bikinis. Just look at the home page. Everything is comment. There is no need for an editorial as everything is spin and bias, and to an extent that is laughable. It is, in fact, a comic for those who want prejudices reinforced with some tits and bums thrown in. It is not, in short, a newspaper. It is an advertising phenomenon.
Go into Waitrose and see those who buy it.
As a marketing exercise it is remarkable. But that is all it is. If you want to read Dacre's thoughts in poor English, then the Mail is the place for you. He follows the great tradition of the Mail of being farcically to the right. It can be extremely offensive. The Mail is Dacre.
Jasmine, it would appear, enjoys a steamy dip in Thailand and Blonde Bombshell Beyonce wears clothes, and Kimberly flashes her knickers.
Milliband's father - now there was a scoop.
Suggesting that Harman is in some way supporting paedophilia is another case in point. There is much, much to criticise the woman for but that would take work.
Yeah, a real quality paper.
Mind you, Breadvan, I'm not sure you should support the Indy quite so uncritically.
The bit about baddies is a bit worrying... 
http://www.anorak.co.uk/380738/news/checking-the-d...
ETA baldies, not baddies
http://www.anorak.co.uk/380738/news/checking-the-d...
ETA baldies, not baddies
carinaman said:
Breadvan72, I am not sure what the fibs are in this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2563377/No...
...
Harman has challenged the allegations in the article. I do not not where the truth lies on that one. The interesting thing may be that the Mail has been front paging this story whilst the Ukrainian situation was reaching its crisis point and whilst various other quite big things happened nationally and internationally. This may give some indication of the Mail's news agenda. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2563377/No...
...
Breadvan72 said:
Harman has challenged the allegations in the article. I do not not where the truth lies on that one. The interesting thing may be that the Mail has been front paging this story whilst the Ukrainian situation was reaching its crisis point and whilst various other quite big things happened nationally and internationally. This may give some indication of the Mail's news agenda.
It's old? So are the DLT allegations. So were the Jimmy Savile allegations. The Daily Mail campaign against those three Labour MPs references documents from places like the LSE library. There's no such evidence against DLT.
The NCCL/PIE smear is about sex, just as the DLT and Savile allegations are/were.
Ukraine? In the summer I emailed you asking if something was an offence. You answered that question. Despite visiting my MP and sending them much information and their legal background they didn't respond to that question about whether something was an offence. The question wasn't acknowledged or answered. That MP has been making noises about Ukraine. I could conclude that they're more worried about what's going on in Ukraine than criminality and crimes in their own constituency. The long grass is longer on the steppes of the Ukraine? I'm still mulling over your edgy pro-bono JR post and whether I could fund it from any damages payout.
We were poking our noses into Ukraine while Cameron is whooping with joy at David Bowie imploring Scotland to stay part of The Union via Kate Moss at some music awards TV programme?
Edited by carinaman on Monday 24th February 19:37
Edgy pro bono JR post? You'll have to remind me about that, as I can't remember all the nonsense I post.
BTW, damages are not usually awarded in JR cases. There are exceptions, but most cases involve non financial remedies.
The LSE Library doesn't have any evidence about DLT allegedly groping people? How very surprising! It sounds like the LSE has gone downhill. I blame that Colonel Gadaffi.
BTW, damages are not usually awarded in JR cases. There are exceptions, but most cases involve non financial remedies.
The LSE Library doesn't have any evidence about DLT allegedly groping people? How very surprising! It sounds like the LSE has gone downhill. I blame that Colonel Gadaffi.
On the general subject of tabloid hypocrisy, back when Chris Morris spoofed the paedogeddon frenzy of the media in his Brass Eye Mockumentary, the Daily Star ran a pic lambasting Channel 4 for showing the programme, but look what it juxtaposed with its shock horror story. "Check out the waps on this 15 year old girl".
Back to the Daily Mail: Maybe ignore the petition (such petitions seem rather pointless to me), but have a look at some of the info collated by the petition's organiser about the Mail's approach to girls as young as eight. This is the same Daily Mail that is banging on about PIE etc.
http://www.change.org/petitions/daily-mail-mailonl...fHDmBjmhRK&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B1467585350123972%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22change-org%3Arecruit%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22fHDmBjmhRK%22%5D
http://www.change.org/petitions/daily-mail-mailonl...fHDmBjmhRK&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B1467585350123972%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22change-org%3Arecruit%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22fHDmBjmhRK%22%5D
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 25th February 14:07
Breadvan72 said:
On the general subject of tabloid hypocrisy, back when Chris Morris spoofed the paedogeddon frenzy of the media in his Brass Eye Mockumentary, the Daily Star ran a pic lambasting Channel 4 for showing the programme, but look what it juxtaposed with its shock horror story. "Check out the waps on this 15 year old girl".
I mentioned what Moyles said about Church being 'legal' elsewhere here in the last couple of days. I'm a fan of Morris and pleased to learn that Blue Jam is repeated from Friday on Radio 4 Extra.On the anti-Mail trail there was a couple of programmes on genes and eugenics on Radio 4 last week. One of them mentioned a Daily Mail article from 1993? that said that as a 'gay' gene had been identified that the unborn showing that gene could be aborted. I hope I've summarised that correctly and I didn't mis-hear what the chap on the radio was saying.
One of the red tops, I cannot recall which one, ran a countdown when Linsey Dawn McKenzie was approaching the age at which she could lawfully be photographed topless. It depicted the (then) still under aged girl wearing a bikini top, with a countdown to when the top would come off.
EDIT: It was the Sunday Sport.
EDIT: It was the Sunday Sport.
Breadvan72 said:
brenflys777 said:
Except lawyers.
Ask the British Public about lawyers and you'll get an absolutely bang on assessment
Seems legit.Ask the British Public about lawyers and you'll get an absolutely bang on assessment
Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 5th February 08:31
I read the Guardian and the Telegraph daily so you could say a nice balance. And hence I don't feel this need to read a paper to confirm what you already believe or fear - that's a very insecure and uneducated way of dealing with things.
The Independent does seem obsessed with climate change above all else.
The Daily Mail has a broader spread of fear stories.
My concern with the DM though is that the scares stories it spreads aren't really even very scary at all. I mean immigrants won't kill us. Neither will falling house prices, or the EU.
The Independent does seem obsessed with climate change above all else.
The Daily Mail has a broader spread of fear stories.
My concern with the DM though is that the scares stories it spreads aren't really even very scary at all. I mean immigrants won't kill us. Neither will falling house prices, or the EU.
The DM scares don't scare you, because you have a brain and you use it. They scare the credulous types who lack critical faculties, and those who have such unshakeable prejudices about allegedly scary stuff that they want to have their views confirmed (in other words: Daily Mail readers).
The Indy has hobby horses. It used to bang on endlessly about the Iraq war. Now it bangs on about the climate, or whatever. It slightly resembles the old Liberal Party, with its very intense campaign groups worrying away at single issues.
I gather that the Express, a bit of a backwater these days, bangs on about Maddie and Princess Di and pretty much nothing else.
The Indy has hobby horses. It used to bang on endlessly about the Iraq war. Now it bangs on about the climate, or whatever. It slightly resembles the old Liberal Party, with its very intense campaign groups worrying away at single issues.
I gather that the Express, a bit of a backwater these days, bangs on about Maddie and Princess Di and pretty much nothing else.
The Daily Mail is an odd one. I always think of the paper as being read by quite genteel ladies who live a bit of a distance from London. The Sun is far too common. The Times is far too serious. But the Mail hits the spot.
Whereas their website is more for blokes. When I used to be at work no day was complete without a bit of Mail online time. Straight to the "most read" stories to see what was getting people angry. And a quick look at the sidebar of shame.
I think both versions of the Mail have been a brilliant marketing success for the business. I don't think anyone with a bit of critical thinking takes it too seriously as a paper but that's not what it's there for.
Whereas their website is more for blokes. When I used to be at work no day was complete without a bit of Mail online time. Straight to the "most read" stories to see what was getting people angry. And a quick look at the sidebar of shame.
I think both versions of the Mail have been a brilliant marketing success for the business. I don't think anyone with a bit of critical thinking takes it too seriously as a paper but that's not what it's there for.
The business model is superb, but it's still a pernicious rag, as too many people fail to apply critical thinking, and they buy into the nonsense that the Mail purveys. Unless he's spoofing, we may even have an actual DM reader-believer on this very thread. Perhaps we should adopt him as the NPE mascot and take it in turns to look after him at weekends, like the primary school hamster.
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