War with Russia

[XM5ER]

To the victor the spoils.

http://rbth.com/news/2014/03/18/crimea_to_hand_ove...

article said:

Crimea to hand over Chernomornaftogaz to Russia's Gazprom - deputy CEO
18:49 March 18, 2014 Interfax

The Crimean authorities intend to hand over Chernomornaftogaz to Russia's Gazprom (MOEX: GAZP) whose specialists have effectively taken the company under their control, Chernomornaftogaz Deputy CEO Vladimir Plechun said.

"First Chernomornaftogaz will undergo nationalization, a new enterprise will be organized that will receive all the licenses to develop the Black Sea shelf in Crimea. Then it will become a Gazprom business unit," Plechun told Forbes, citing Crimea's First Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliyev.

Already a group of Gazprom representatives, including its head of business development, is working at the Chernomornaftogaz head office, he said.
Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - http://rbth.com/news/2014/03/18/crimea_to_hand_ove...

[Jimbeaux]

scherzkeks said:

Octoposse said:

Quite so . . . and if that is what passes for a US State Department rebuttal they need to hire somebody who understands the difference between assertion and fact:

I'd say they have the right man; he has done a splendid job of condensing the latest state-approved narratives for shaping public opinion in support of preconceived U.S. objectives.

Considering that only about 10% of the population is likely to even know what critical thinking is, we can assume that the other 90% have now been won over entirely as of this rebuttal and are ready to get down and spread some "freedom."

Your preconceptions are humorous.

[skyrover]

Simferopol, Crimea: billboards with “Western Agents”, pictures of those who don’t support Putin’s actions

[hidetheelephants]

skyrover said:

Be alert! Thieves are at work in Crimea; if your estate agent is missing a window display, call your local law enforcement officer!

Does pish like this affect anyone other than the media, who uncritically point cameras at it?

Edited by hidetheelephants on Tuesday 15th April 18:49

[baldy1926]

Russians trying to ramp up their efforts in the Black Sea
http://news.sky.com/story/1242558/russian-jet-buzz...

[Octoposse]

baldy1926 said:

Russians trying to ramp up their efforts in the Black Sea
http://news.sky.com/story/1242558/russian-jet-buzz...

Not like a US aircraft would have had a look at a Russian warship nosing around off the coast of California or anything?

At least there is finally proof positive of Russian involvement in the takeover of public buildings - in the photo of the so-called 'pro-Russian separatist' you can clearly see an ancient shotgun and racy pack-a-mack that are undoubtedly standard Spetsnaz issue.

[Halb]

Octoposse said:

At least there is finally proof positive of Russian involvement in the takeover of public buildings - in the photo of the so-called 'pro-Russian separatist' you can clearly see an ancient shotgun and racy pack-a-mack that are undoubtedly standard Spetsnaz issue.

[skyrover]

Halb said:

Octoposse said:

At least there is finally proof positive of Russian involvement in the takeover of public buildings - in the photo of the so-called 'pro-Russian separatist' you can clearly see an ancient shotgun and racy pack-a-mack that are undoubtedly standard Spetsnaz issue.

Conveniently ignoring the RPG-30 equipped gunman in my previous post

The RPG-30 is cutting edge... the Russians have only just started adopting it into service last year.

Where the hell in Ukraine do you buy one of those?

[scherzkeks]

Jimbeaux said:

Your preconceptions are humorous.

Eric Prince and John Brennan beg to differ.

[Halb]

Aldi.

[raftom]

Now Germany will sell Russian natural gas to Ukraine at a discount

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/15/us-rwe-u...

[Transmitter Man]

Russian paramilitary leaders in eastyern Ukraine caught on tape communicating with Moscow:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russian-pa...

Is Pukin taking Russia back to the good (bad) old days?

Phil

[skyrover]

An interesting letter



Roughly translated in short to:

"As the Jewish people supported Bandera's junta in Kyiv and in general are hostile towards the Orthodox Donetsk Republic and its citizens, your popular governor Denis Pushilin requires all citizens of Jewish nationality to come over to Donetsk Oblast administration for a registration. This will cost 50 USD (why USD?). There should be also taken all documentation about the ownership of properties and means of transport.

In a case of evasion the guilty ones will be denied citizenship and expelled from Donetsk Republic and their property will be confiscated."

[V8 Fettler]

No date on the letter.

[skyrover]

V8 Fettler said:

No date on the letter.

"donetsk peoples republic" didn't exist a few weeks ago and yes it does have dates on it if you look closely

[V8 Fettler]

skyrover said:

"donetsk peoples republic" didn't exist a few weeks ago and yes it does have dates on it if you look closely

I can't read the Ukrainian language, I don't fully trust any "translation" service. If it's an official letter then where is the date of writing? Top left? Top right? It's a leg-pull.

[skyrover]

V8 Fettler said:

skyrover said:

"donetsk peoples republic" didn't exist a few weeks ago and yes it does have dates on it if you look closely

I can't read the Ukrainian language, I don't fully trust any "translation" service. If it's an official letter then where is the date of writing? Top left? Top right? It's a leg-pull.

More like local mafia exploiting the situation.

Than again, it is generally assumed that a lot of these "freedom fighters" are also local mafia being paid handsomely by the Russians.

[Octoposse]

skyrover said:

Halb said:

Octoposse said:

At least there is finally proof positive of Russian involvement in the takeover of public buildings - in the photo of the so-called 'pro-Russian separatist' you can clearly see an ancient shotgun and racy pack-a-mack that are undoubtedly standard Spetsnaz issue.

Conveniently ignoring the RPG-30 equipped gunman in my previous post

The RPG-30 is cutting edge... the Russians have only just started adopting it into service last year.

Where the hell in Ukraine do you buy one of those?

Not ignoring, just balancing - you have been cherry picking photos of professional looking military kit, and excluding the overwhelming majority, which are blokes with wooden sticks, pretty girls, little old ladies with shopping bags, and coal miners waving their Ukrainian passports.

Pretty inconceivable that the Ukrainians will loose MBTs (assuming they could find professional soldiers willing) and paramilitaries on what appears to be a genuinely popular, predominantly working class, movement, in built up areas. If they did, Russia would have to act, and even the EU would struggle to reconcile their oft-repeated opposition to the use of force against pro-EU protestors in the North of Ukraine with support for a regime that uses force against pro-Russian (actually pro-Russian is over simplistic, but it will do for the moment) protestors in the East.

Probably/hopefully just a little muscle flexing - putting some more chips on the table - before they sit down and hammer out the same deal that could have been reached six weeks ago if EU/US leaders had chosen engagement and even-handedness over grandstanding.

And - for what it's worth - are you sure it's an RPG-30, not - say - a 1980s vintage RPG-26? Not saying it's not (it's a while since I sat in damp woods in West Germany looking eastwards through my binos for advancing Russians, so I'm a little out of touch), but there are some axes being ground.

[skyrover]

Octoposse said:

ot ignoring, just balancing - you have been cherry picking photos of professional looking military kit, and excluding the overwhelming majority, which are blokes with wooden sticks, pretty girls, little old ladies with shopping bags, and coal miners waving their Ukrainian passports.

Yes, there is a distinct difference between trained soldiers and pro-russian militias. If you trawl back through my posts I have been posting news across the board. Yes the vast majority of appear to be common folk, but that does not exclude the fact that Russian agent's and special forces have been mixing/instigating/stirring the pot.
The Russians are not stupid, hey aren't going to go in waving the flag without a "valid" reason.

Octoposse said:

Pretty inconceivable that the Ukrainians will loose MBTs (assuming they could find professional soldiers willing) and paramilitaries on what appears to be a genuinely popular, predominantly working class, movement, in built up areas. If they did, Russia would have to act, and even the EU would struggle to reconcile their oft-repeated opposition to the use of force against pro-EU protestors in the North of Ukraine with support for a regime that uses force against pro-Russian (actually pro-Russian is over simplistic, but it will do for the moment) protestors in the East.

Ukraine will do do the minimum possible. How do you enforce law and order without provoking a response from the big guy next door? Putin needs to act before May 25th, or his argument that fascists have overthrown Ukrainian democracy will vanish.
The EU can't even agree among themselves on what to do next, let alone present a common front to Russia. Ukraine is on it's own for now.

Octoposse said:

Probably/hopefully just a little muscle flexing - putting some more chips on the table - before they sit down and hammer out the same deal that could have been reached six weeks ago if EU/US leaders had chosen engagement and even-handedness over grandstanding.

Sadly, I do not believe there will be a deal. Russia can't afford a west leaning Ukraine and will do whatever it deems necessary to ensure a crippled/confused/subservient neighbor

[DMN]

The French news agent Agence France-Presse are reporting intercepted Russian communications give pro-Russian militants orders to shoot to kill. Also Kiev television has played what it said was an intercepted conversation between two Russian commanders in eastern Ukraine, who appeared to be discussing ways to ensure that separatist gunmen open fire against federal soldiers if they are attacked.