War with Russia
Discussion
jmorgan said:
That is chilling however it is the wail and this situation probably has more misinformation floating around than tin foil hat appreciation society annual meeting.
Yes I don't believe it's official for one minute, but it's more than just worrying that there are such factions out there with the front to get such stuff printed up and distribute. That would get them jailed in Europe.FiF said:
Yes I don't believe it's official for one minute, but it's more than just worrying that there are such factions out there with the front to get such stuff printed up and distribute. That would get them jailed in Europe.
They want to stoke the fires. I am not really surprised. looking at RT news this morning (it is like a car crash) interesting to read that we are saying our press and politicians are getting it all wrong. Oh, and Snowdon has had Putin on the ropes in a Q+A that was not staged.FiF said:
Not sure if this is the correct thread but Jews are being ordered to register and bring evidence of good title to property. If they fail to comply they will be deported.
Bloody hell.
I heard this report on Radio 5 Live. They are also required to identify themselves as Jews.Bloody hell.
History is repeating itself.
FiF said:
jmorgan said:
That is chilling however it is the wail and this situation probably has more misinformation floating around than tin foil hat appreciation society annual meeting.
Yes I don't believe it's official for one minute, but it's more than just worrying that there are such factions out there with the front to get such stuff printed up and distribute. That would get them jailed in Europe.Finally some straight, honest and reliable reporting in the UK media - ex British Ambassador to Moscow interviewed on R4 PM last night, gist was . . . of course Russia doesn't want chunks of Ukraine, what it wants is a peaceful and prosperous one, that is neutral. . .
Tragedy is that peaceful and neutral had both been delivered by democracy, the will of the people, and the Ukrainian constitution and political system. Unfortunately, 'we', the US and the EU , and factions in Ukraine (particularly in the capital) didn't like the particular outcome and subverted it. Russia reacted exaxtly as predicted (and with some competence), and the Ukrainian state imploded.
"Happy ending" in the sense that there is, of course, no all out war as a result, but none the less devastating for many ordinary people caught up in it. Not only reprehensible that we should have acted as cheerleaders for the overthrow of an elected government in Europe, but also unwise at every level. At the broadest level - and directly comparable to events in Egypt - it's a very dangerous disincentive to engage in democratic processes if the result is only accepted if it goes one way.
Tragedy is that peaceful and neutral had both been delivered by democracy, the will of the people, and the Ukrainian constitution and political system. Unfortunately, 'we', the US and the EU , and factions in Ukraine (particularly in the capital) didn't like the particular outcome and subverted it. Russia reacted exaxtly as predicted (and with some competence), and the Ukrainian state imploded.
"Happy ending" in the sense that there is, of course, no all out war as a result, but none the less devastating for many ordinary people caught up in it. Not only reprehensible that we should have acted as cheerleaders for the overthrow of an elected government in Europe, but also unwise at every level. At the broadest level - and directly comparable to events in Egypt - it's a very dangerous disincentive to engage in democratic processes if the result is only accepted if it goes one way.
Langweilig said:
I heard this report on Radio 5 Live. They are also required to identify themselves as Jews.
History is repeating itself.
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ukraine-jewish-re...History is repeating itself.
hidetheelephants said:
Best thing the spams can do for Ukraine is to help them jam Russian TV and supply convincing russian language TV without the propaganda(or more likely pro-Ukraine propaganda). The best thing the Ukraine can do is reverse their stupid decision to stop Russian being an official language as it was a gift for Vlad.
I've always been mystified why the first instinct in these beanos is to trash the nearest council office, then set up crappy road blocks; the principal reason these folk are agitating is real or perceived economic hardship, but the reaction is to smash or set fire to things they're going to have to pay to rebuild and put up barriers to ensure any residual economic activity is crushed and no-one can do any business. Is stupidity contagious?
Marxism lesson 435 I've always been mystified why the first instinct in these beanos is to trash the nearest council office, then set up crappy road blocks; the principal reason these folk are agitating is real or perceived economic hardship, but the reaction is to smash or set fire to things they're going to have to pay to rebuild and put up barriers to ensure any residual economic activity is crushed and no-one can do any business. Is stupidity contagious?
in order to correctly stage a revolution there needs to be a situation whereby the rulers are unable to rule. Economic chaos is an easy way of bringing this on.
There will be some collateral damage to the uprising masses, but this is generally viewed as acceptable in order to bring down the establishment.
Ukraine finally blocks the border with Russia
Russian propaganda posters on a wall in Donetsk
4 NATO minesweepers and one auxiliary vessel are on its way to the Baltic Sea.
East Ukraine militants snub Geneva diplomatic deal, continue to occupy buildings in defiance of Kiev - @BBCNews
Russia says it will build 150 military objects on the Kuril Islands by 2016. These islands were occupied in 1945 by the Soviet-Union and remain a dispute between Russia and Japan. The Japanese FM has cancelled his visit to Russia.
Tymochenko has asked the US congress to give military support to Ukraine
Russian propaganda posters on a wall in Donetsk
4 NATO minesweepers and one auxiliary vessel are on its way to the Baltic Sea.
East Ukraine militants snub Geneva diplomatic deal, continue to occupy buildings in defiance of Kiev - @BBCNews
Russia says it will build 150 military objects on the Kuril Islands by 2016. These islands were occupied in 1945 by the Soviet-Union and remain a dispute between Russia and Japan. The Japanese FM has cancelled his visit to Russia.
Tymochenko has asked the US congress to give military support to Ukraine
Halb said:
toppstuff said:
There are a lot of "Republic of Crapastan" countries there that no-one in the west should really care about.
No-one should care about them?Photos Link Masked Men in East Ukraine to Russia
nytimes said:
KIEV, Ukraine — For two weeks, the mysteriously well-armed, professional gunmen known as “green men” have seized Ukrainian government sites in town after town, igniting a brush fire of separatist unrest across eastern Ukraine. Strenuous denials from the Kremlin have closely followed each accusation by Ukrainian officials that the world was witnessing a stealthy invasion by Russian forces.
Now, photographs and descriptions from eastern Ukraine endorsed by the Obama administration on Sunday suggest that many of the green men are indeed Russian military and intelligence forces — equipped in the same fashion as Russian special operations troops involved in annexing the Crimea region in February. Some of the men photographed in Ukraine have been identified in other photos clearly taken among Russian troops in other settings.
And Ukraine’s state security service has identified one Russian reported to be active among the green men as Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, a Russian military intelligence operative in his mid- to late 50s. He is said to have a long résumé of undercover service with the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Russian general staff, most recently in Crimea in February and March and now in and around the eastern Ukrainian city of Slovyansk.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/pho...Now, photographs and descriptions from eastern Ukraine endorsed by the Obama administration on Sunday suggest that many of the green men are indeed Russian military and intelligence forces — equipped in the same fashion as Russian special operations troops involved in annexing the Crimea region in February. Some of the men photographed in Ukraine have been identified in other photos clearly taken among Russian troops in other settings.
And Ukraine’s state security service has identified one Russian reported to be active among the green men as Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, a Russian military intelligence operative in his mid- to late 50s. He is said to have a long résumé of undercover service with the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Russian general staff, most recently in Crimea in February and March and now in and around the eastern Ukrainian city of Slovyansk.
Appraisal of current Russian politics from an ex, now exiled, Putin counselor:
Sergei Guriev said:
Putin came to office in 2000. Russia was at its nadir: an economy in ruins; a political system with no authority; fourteen per cent unemployment. His timing was uncanny. Energy prices rose. G.D.P. growth shot up to as high as nine per cent. Unemployment dropped by more than half. A financial sector developed, which brought greater investment and productivity. (...) His compact with the Russian people, however, was stark: Stay out of politics and thrive. Interfere, presume, overstep, and you will meet a harsh fate.
But now, as the economy sputters, the compact has become much more severe. Inflation is high. Foreign investment, the stock market, and the ruble have declined––and this is all before the pain of Western sanctions and the costs of the Ukrainian adventure have fully registered. Capital flight has reached as much as seventy billion dollars this year. Growth is now at about one per cent and, according to Guriev, “heading toward zero.” Corruption, cronyism, re-nationalization, and opacity are enemies of progress, advisers like Guriev have long insisted, but Putin has not wanted to hear it.
The occupation of Crimea, the maneuvers in eastern Ukraine––it is all part of a short-term, and highly successful, political diversion to maintain Putin’s domestic rating. It is also a road to nowhere. Never mind the interests of the Ukrainian people, who have suffered one kleptomaniacal leader after another. Putin will hardly rescue them. (...) Putin’s current tactics for social control are cunning and effective. His popularity rating––a vexed statistic in an authoritarian country––is at eighty per cent. “For less sophisticated people, he relies on brainwashing,” Guriev said. “For more sophisticated but less honest people, he needs to bribe them. For honest, sophisticated people, he uses repression.”
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2014/04/28/140428taco_talk_remnickBut now, as the economy sputters, the compact has become much more severe. Inflation is high. Foreign investment, the stock market, and the ruble have declined––and this is all before the pain of Western sanctions and the costs of the Ukrainian adventure have fully registered. Capital flight has reached as much as seventy billion dollars this year. Growth is now at about one per cent and, according to Guriev, “heading toward zero.” Corruption, cronyism, re-nationalization, and opacity are enemies of progress, advisers like Guriev have long insisted, but Putin has not wanted to hear it.
The occupation of Crimea, the maneuvers in eastern Ukraine––it is all part of a short-term, and highly successful, political diversion to maintain Putin’s domestic rating. It is also a road to nowhere. Never mind the interests of the Ukrainian people, who have suffered one kleptomaniacal leader after another. Putin will hardly rescue them. (...) Putin’s current tactics for social control are cunning and effective. His popularity rating––a vexed statistic in an authoritarian country––is at eighty per cent. “For less sophisticated people, he relies on brainwashing,” Guriev said. “For more sophisticated but less honest people, he needs to bribe them. For honest, sophisticated people, he uses repression.”
Jimbeaux said:
Halb said:
toppstuff said:
There are a lot of "Republic of Crapastan" countries there that no-one in the west should really care about.
No-one should care about them?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff