War with Russia

Author
Discussion

Fittster

20,120 posts

214 months

Wednesday 30th April 2014
quotequote all
Mr Turchynov also said Ukraine was on "full combat alert", amid fears Russian troops could invade.

The events in Ukraine are increasingly like watching the proverbial train wreck in slow motion. Acting President Olexander Turchynov's admission that the government is "helpless" and has lost control over large parts of the country's east only solidifies that sensation.

Mr Turchynov said the focus now was to stop the unrest from spreading to other regions, especially Odessa and Kharkiv. So far these cities have seen some turbulence, but nothing on the level of what has happened in Donetsk and Luhansk.

The government's hope is to keep a lid on the situation until the 25 May presidential elections. That date now seems an eternity away, and one wonders if the government, or the country, will last that long.

"I would like to say frankly that at the moment the security structures are unable to swiftly take the situation in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions back under control," he said during a meeting with regional governors.

He admitted security personnel "tasked with the protection of citizens" were "helpless".

"More than that, some of these units either aid or co-operate with terrorist groups," he said.

Mr Turchynov added: "Our task is to stop the spread of the terrorist threat first of all in the Kharkiv and Odessa regions."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27222023

I thought it was all down to evil Russian invaders but it according to their own PM Ukraine soldiers are with the people of eastern Ukraine.

AA999

5,180 posts

218 months

Wednesday 30th April 2014
quotequote all
Bluebarge said:
.. were they wrong?
Is NATO expansion wrong in my view?
I'd say yes.
Expanding a military power/agreement in to more and more states is increasing the risk of conflict.
NATO expansion towards Russia is only asking for a reactionary response from Russia. Just like the USA responded in the Cuban missile crisis when Russian influence was expanding closer to their borders.

And most people would normally accept that NATO = USA's tool for foreign policy and national interests. (matter of opinion of course).


But my opinion is not by simple elimination to say that Russia are 'fantastic' or are the 'good guys'. I just don't assume these days that the USA are automatically righteous through their might.

MintyChris

848 posts

193 months

Wednesday 30th April 2014
quotequote all
Its an interesting development. Personally I don't see it as a US v Russia standoff, more of a EU v Russia situation.

Russia is responding to the EU power creep, I don't think it likes the idea of another super power on its doorstep and this is it trying to get in the way.

EU is on a long road but at the end of that road is the potential formation of the next super power. Russia doesn't like this, it is already under the increasing influence of the EU and eventually it may even fold and become part of it. This nationalist movement from Putin is just an attempt to retain power and influence.

I suspect a long stalemate will occur. The EU is still in its infancy and doesn't have the political will for any real action and Russia simply cannot afford to engage in military action against the EU/USA.

QuantumTokoloshi

4,166 posts

218 months

Thursday 1st May 2014
quotequote all
A Russian academic perspective, with an interesting explanation of the various competing interests, European, international and local, read oligarchs, in the Ukraine situation.

Battleground Ukraine: A Comprehensive Summary (From A Russian Perspective)

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 1st May 09:04

Asterix

24,438 posts

229 months

Thursday 1st May 2014
quotequote all
QuantumTokoloshi said:
A Russian academic perspective, with an interesting explanation of the various competing interests, European, international and local, read oligarchs, in the Ukraine situation.

Battleground Ukraine: A Comprehensive Summary (From A Russian Perspective)

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 1st May 09:04
Had a quick scan - really interesting - thanks for posting. I'll have a proper read at home.

Gecko1978

9,753 posts

158 months

Thursday 1st May 2014
quotequote all
Asterix said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
A Russian academic perspective, with an interesting explanation of the various competing interests, European, international and local, read oligarchs, in the Ukraine situation.

Battleground Ukraine: A Comprehensive Summary (From A Russian Perspective)

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 1st May 09:04
Had a quick scan - really interesting - thanks for posting. I'll have a proper read at home.
Best wear a tin foil hat because MI6 have to approve all senior board members in UK corps don't you know. There are other gems in there but to be fair it talks about corruption in the Ukraine and the spill over effect so not total madness.

Asterix

24,438 posts

229 months

Thursday 1st May 2014
quotequote all
Of course - It's interesting from a perspective PoV rather than factual.

109er

433 posts

131 months

Thursday 1st May 2014
quotequote all
http://t.news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-demands-ukrai...

What right has this dipstick Putin got to tell another country where it can
and can't deploy its own troops in its own country redcard

AreOut

3,658 posts

162 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
109er said:
http://t.news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-demands-ukrai...

What right has this dipstick Putin got to tell another country where it can
and can't deploy its own troops in its own country redcard
Right of power, the one NATO has used in Yugoslavia Lybia Afghanistan Iraq ... you name it.

That doesn't justify him though in my eyes, but he certainly knows better than me what's good for his country and people.



skyrover

12,679 posts

205 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
AreOut said:
Right of power, the one NATO has used in Yugoslavia Lybia Afghanistan Iraq ... you name it.

That doesn't justify him though in my eyes, but he certainly knows better than me what's good for his country and people.
He knows what's good for him and his mates you mean wink

He certainly does not come across as the caring type.... just ask his wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Family

Fittster

20,120 posts

214 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
"Ukrainian government forces have launched an "anti-terror" operation against pro-Russian rebels in the eastern city of Sloviansk."

So the Ukrainian government has turned it's armed forces against its own people, while the west stays silent.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

248 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
I think the Russian economy and its ability to survive a sustained period of tension is the main factor.

In the old USSR days, Russia did not need the rest of the world. In the modern world, Russia depends utterly on its neighbours to buy its oil and gas.


Mermaid

21,492 posts

172 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
Fittster said:
"Ukrainian Syrian government forces have launched an "anti-terror" operation against pro Russian rebels Saudi in the eastern city of Sloviansk. Homs"

So the Ukrainian Syrian government has turned it's armed forces against its own people, while the west stays silent.
EFA wink

baldy1926

2,136 posts

201 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
Reports of 2 helicopter's shot down by pro Russian forces.
No idea what type or how shot down

Police State

4,068 posts

221 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
I think the Russian economy and its ability to survive a sustained period of tension is the main factor.

In the old USSR days, Russia did not need the rest of the world. In the modern world, Russia depends utterly on its neighbours to buy its oil and gas.
eh?...

In the old days, the utterly dysfunctional USSR would have been finished if not for the U.S. feeding them on a weekly basis.


Badgerboy

1,783 posts

193 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
Police State said:
eh?...

In the old days, the utterly dysfunctional USSR would have been finished if not for the U.S. feeding them on a weekly basis.
Well, and the Canadians and the Aussies. But yes, they were very dependent on the West.

Police State

4,068 posts

221 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
Badgerboy said:
Police State said:
eh?...

In the old days, the utterly dysfunctional USSR would have been finished if not for the U.S. feeding them on a weekly basis.
Well, and the Canadians and the Aussies. But yes, they were very dependent on the West.
Also true. I had the 'mericans in the forefront of my mind because I have been reading the last couple of pages of the usual cobblers about the US being protagonists in a new cold war, and just wanted to bring some other perspective. Though perhaps, I should have responded to AA99s posting.

AreOut

3,658 posts

162 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
He knows what's good for him and his mates you mean wink

He certainly does not come across as the caring type.... just ask his wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Family
it's his personal life and I don't think she would stay with him 30 years if she was beaten, also BND had some interest in undermining foreign spies and Putin was one of them so I don't believe them

the fact is that Russia is economically growing and life is much easier than 10-15 years ago, yes it's still full of corruption and lawlessness but you can't change 200 million country over night, especially one with very complicated internal relations



skyrover

12,679 posts

205 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
AreOut said:
it's his personal life and I don't think she would stay with him 30 years if she was beaten, also BND had some interest in undermining foreign spies and Putin was one of them so I don't believe them

the fact is that Russia is economically growing and life is much easier than 10-15 years ago, yes it's still full of corruption and lawlessness but you can't change 200 million country over night, especially one with very complicated internal relations
Not going to grow much longer if this Ukraine business keeps playing out

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economic...

Also... Russia's population is only 140 million, slightly more than Japan with wealth concentrated mostly around Moscow and the West

Edited by skyrover on Friday 2nd May 13:00

Fittster

20,120 posts

214 months

Friday 2nd May 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
Not going to grow much longer if this Ukraine business keeps playing out

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economic...

Also... Russia's population is only 140 million, slightly more than Japan with wealth concentrated mostly around Moscow and the West

Edited by skyrover on Friday 2nd May 13:00
Maybe Russian should get the Ukraine to pay its gas bills to help the economy.