War with Russia

[raftom]

Well they are out of the local losers and small crooks who wanted to feel respected by manning an AK47 in the village checkpoint. They are out of Cossacks who desert when they hear the Ukrainian army coming near. Chechen mercenaries keep going back to Grozny in body bags. Outside of an air and land full scale invasion there are no more options left then sending Russian army regulars. But the charade is no more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TTuR1y-Ui4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS_daxV3eIE

Edited by raftom on Wednesday 27th August 22:57

[raftom]

raftom said:

Well they are out of the local losers and small crooks who wanted to feel respected by manning an AK47 in the village checkpoint. They are out of Cossacks who desert when they hear the Ukrainian army coming near. Chechen mercenaries keep going back to Grozny in body bags.

I spoke too soon. They also have some French volunteers. They are there to fight against imperialism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1SPc8jxAEM

[AreOut]

so why is ukrainian army retreating from...noone?

[raftom]

AreOut said:

so why is ukrainian army retreating from...noone?

From the thousands of Russians troops that invaded during the last week:

Skyrover in another thread said:

And a list someone has compiled of all the Russian units encountered in Ukraine so far

From JUVO (South Military District?), ground forces and artillery:

- BTG from the 18th Motorised Brigade Chechnya Hankala / Kalynovska (the so-called Chechen battalion);
- BTG from the 17th Motorised Brigade Chechnya, shawls;
- BTG from the 136th Motorised Brigade Botlikh, Dagestan;
- BTG from the 205th Motorised Brigade Budeonovsk, Stavropol Territory;
- BTG from the 19th Motorized Rifle Brigade Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia;
- BTG from the 7th military base from the occupied Abkhazia, Georgia;
- BTG from the 33rd mountain infantry brigade Maikop, Adygea;
- Mixed Division from the 291st Artillery Brigade Trinity, Ingushetia.
- Mixed company from the 78th brigade logistics Budeonovsk, Stavropol region.

From Airborne:
- BTG from the 76th Division of Pskov;
- BTG from the 98th Division, Ivanovo;
- BTG of the 45 separate regiment Specialty Kubinka;
- BTG from the from the 247th Regiment of the 7th Division of Novorossiysk.

BTG / RTG and divisions of the Land Forces and artillery units JUVO:
- from the 20th Motorised Brigade Volgograd,
- 34th mountain infantry brigade Karachay-Cherkessia;
- Division from the 943rd Artillery Regiment Krasnooktyabrskoe Adygea (MLRS "Hurricane")
- Division from the 1st Missile Brigade Krasnodar (PTRC "Tochka-U", "Iskander-M").

- 23th Motorized Rifle Brigade Samara;
- BTG / RTG from Airborne - from the 56th Air Assault Brigade Volgograd,
- 106th Division Tula. - RTG / DRG (sabotage and reconnaissance groups)

From the parts of the GRU stationed in the South of Russia:
- the 10th brigade of special purpose Molkino Krasnodar region,
- 22th Brigade Specialty Aksai, Rostov region,
- 100th Brigade experimental razvedyvatelnoy Mozdok North Ossetia,
- 346th Brigade Specialty Cool Kabardino-Balkaria,
- 25th Regiment Specialty Stavropol;
- 2nd Brigade Specialty Pskov,
- 16th Brigade Specialty Tambov,

- 3rd Brigade Specialty Ulyanovsk.

http://freejournal.biz/article4923/index.html

[Octoposse]

AreOut said:

skyrover said:

In Kosovo, the Albanian population was actually threatened by Serbia's military action. There were extensive expulsions, and the danger of genocide existed. Only afterwards did the intervention from outside take place. That intervention didn't happen to make Kosovo a part of Germany or the US. Where in the Crimean/East Ukrainian case, the intervention by Russian troops clearly aims to return these regions to Russia. That's a huge difference. Another point is that the Russian population in Ukraine isn't threatened - there is no fear of pogroms. Those dangers, which in the case of Kosovo really did exist, don't exist in Ukraine.

really? How much time have you spent on Kosovo exactly and when? Serbian military action was initiated because of albanian terrorist attacks on police stations and Serbs on Kosovo generally, I guess you would act differently in UK and just let them take your territory if mideast people requested the Republic of Essex?

Quite so - when the KLA started attacking Serbs, Ibrahim Rugova at first believed it must be a Serb false flag provocation.

There was a nasty, but low level, civil war in Kosovo, but Messiah Blair, Clinton and a disgracefully tame press spun a one sided narrative to justify picking a side and the changing of recognised international borders by overwhelming external force.

[rich85uk]

AreOut said:

so why is ukrainian army retreating from...noone?

They aren't, it's now a stage of retreat or die as the Russians have surrounded them with far superior fire power. Bearing in mind it's 30 years in prison for defecting from the Ukrainian army that shows how bad it is if large numbers are running away

[skyrover]

rich85uk said:

AreOut said:

so why is ukrainian army retreating from...noone?

They aren't, it's now a stage of retreat or die as the Russians have surrounded them with far superior fire power. Bearing in mind it's 30 years in prison for defecting from the Ukrainian army that shows how bad it is if large numbers are running away

Most of the guys surrounded are volunteer battalions not under regular army command. Unfortunately this means they are not as well coordinated and do not have heavy amour/air support.

It's these guys who are in real trouble.

[Grumfutock]

Who would of guess that!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28963310

[MrCarPark]

Looks like a coordinated invasion.

http://liveuamap.com/?ll=47.81888107997558;38.5007...

[Grumfutock]

AreOut said:

skyrover said:

In Kosovo, the Albanian population was actually threatened by Serbia's military action. There were extensive expulsions, and the danger of genocide existed. Only afterwards did the intervention from outside take place. That intervention didn't happen to make Kosovo a part of Germany or the US. Where in the Crimean/East Ukrainian case, the intervention by Russian troops clearly aims to return these regions to Russia. That's a huge difference. Another point is that the Russian population in Ukraine isn't threatened - there is no fear of pogroms. Those dangers, which in the case of Kosovo really did exist, don't exist in Ukraine.

really? How much time have you spent on Kosovo exactly and when? Serbian military action was initiated because of albanian terrorist attacks on police stations and Serbs on Kosovo generally, I guess you would act differently in UK and just let them take your territory if mideast people requested the Republic of Essex?

Hmmm not what I remember seeing. I seem to recall nearly a million people being forced out.

[Fittster]

Would the Ukrainian government object to UN monitors being sent to the area?

[rich85uk]

Wouldnt object as much as Russia and probably welcome it, although they would be abit nervous about the right sector getting into trouble

Probably last attempt to defend Mariupol

[DMN]

The Russians will.

[Grumfutock]

The poor bloody UN troops would as well.

[raftom]

rich85uk said:

Probably last attempt to defend Mariupol

Don't anyone count off the Ukrainian military yet. Their main problems seems to be suffering from the old soviet bureaucracy and being obviously compromised with Russian spies and traitors but they have evolved significantly in the last few months and learned some hard lessons in blood.

Also the Ukrainians have a huge number of SAMs operational including several S-300 systems, which at this stage will make any aerial Russian intervention a very perilous issue, to say the least. Even for something like the USAF this would be a delicate matter and Russia has almost zero combat experience in air defence suppression and AFAIK they don't even have any kind of wild weasel formations. That will make any Russian land advance now far more slow then it would be if they had started this 3 months ago.

And besides, it's the size of the fight in the dog that matters. Russian army is still not full professionalized and has a huge number of conscripts that will be fighting abroad for something they don't care. Ukraine rage against this intervention and the Russian hate propaganda campaign is growing day by day. This is an image of a recruitment office today:

[0000]

A picture says a thousand words I guess.

I can't think Russia are really looking for a fight, surely they're happy with what they've opportunistically taken via the back door that we seem broadly content to leave them with?

[Cheburator mk2]

raftom said:

Don't anyone count off the Ukrainian military yet. Their main problems seems to be suffering from the old soviet bureaucracy and being obviously compromised with Russian spies and traitors but they have evolved significantly in the last few months and learned some hard lessons in blood.

Also the Ukrainians have a huge number of SAMs operational including several S-300 systems, which at this stage will make any aerial Russian intervention a very perilous issue, to say the least. Even for something like the USAF this would be a delicate matter and Russia has almost zero combat experience in air defence suppression and AFAIK they don't even have any kind of wild weasel formations. That will make any Russian land advance now far more slow then it would be if they had started this 3 months ago.

And besides, it's the size of the fight in the dog that matters. Russian army is still not full professionalized and has a huge number of conscripts that will be fighting abroad for something they don't care. Ukraine rage against this intervention and the Russian hate propaganda campaign is growing day by day. This is an image of a recruitment office today:

You are not serious, are you?

[AreOut]

Grumfutock said:

Hmmm not what I remember seeing. I seem to recall nearly a million people being forced out.

noone was forced out before NATO bombings, at least noone with legal papers

[Asterix]

Cheburator mk2 said:

raftom said:

Don't anyone count off the Ukrainian military yet. Their main problems seems to be suffering from the old soviet bureaucracy and being obviously compromised with Russian spies and traitors but they have evolved significantly in the last few months and learned some hard lessons in blood.

Also the Ukrainians have a huge number of SAMs operational including several S-300 systems, which at this stage will make any aerial Russian intervention a very perilous issue, to say the least. Even for something like the USAF this would be a delicate matter and Russia has almost zero combat experience in air defence suppression and AFAIK they don't even have any kind of wild weasel formations. That will make any Russian land advance now far more slow then it would be if they had started this 3 months ago.

And besides, it's the size of the fight in the dog that matters. Russian army is still not full professionalized and has a huge number of conscripts that will be fighting abroad for something they don't care. Ukraine rage against this intervention and the Russian hate propaganda campaign is growing day by day. This is an image of a recruitment office today:

You are not serious, are you?

Free potato with gun and uniform.

[raftom]

Cheburator mk2 said:

You are not serious, are you?

I am.