War with Russia
Discussion
raftom said:
am.
I sincerely hope that it never gets to a full on war on the ground between the ruskies and the hohols. But if you think the hohols have any chance against the ruskies, then you are clearly delusional... Let's hope that ultimately they reach an acceptable compromise, as it looks terrible for the civilians on both sides.Cheburator mk2 said:
I sincerely hope that it never gets to a full on war on the ground between the ruskies and the hohols. But if you think the hohols have any chance against the ruskies, then you are clearly delusional...
I said do not count them off. Didn't imply they were going to march over Moscow. But I do think they have a chance of stopping the onslaught or at least making it extremely expensive to the Russians, for the reasons I mentioned. It's a 40 million people country.Cheburator mk2 said:
Let's hope that ultimately they reach an acceptable compromise, as it looks terrible for the civilians on both sides.
Indeed.0000 said:
I can't think Russia are really looking for a fight, surely they're happy with what they've opportunistically taken via the back door that we seem broadly content to leave them with?
First part is 100% right.However, 'we' are trying to make Putin pay a political and economic price by trying to avoid a diplomatic settlement as long as possible. Fight to the last Ukrainian . . .
And Putin can't back down because anything looking to his constituency at home like a defeat will absolutely be the beginning of the end for him.
DMN said:
raftom said:
AFAIK they don't even have any kind of wild weasel formations.
They do have several different types of anti-radiation missle. However most are old, and as you say they have very little experience in actually using them.The Ukraine has had nearly 6 months of this; it takes 2-3 months to churn out green infanteers capable of following basic orders despite being shot at and I imagine their training barracks will have been hard at it provided a steady stream of recruits can be found or conscripted. The hard part is training subalterns to lead them and finding enough NCOs to tell the subalterns what to do.
hidetheelephants said:
The only reasonably current experience they have is slaughtering Chechens, I don't think they had much beyond AKs and RPGs to fight with.
The Ukraine has had nearly 6 months of this; it takes 2-3 months to churn out green infanteers capable of following basic orders despite being shot at and I imagine their training barracks will have been hard at it provided a steady stream of recruits can be found or conscripted. The hard part is training subalterns to lead them and finding enough NCOs to tell the subalterns what to do.
And then to find enough SNCO to do all the work.The Ukraine has had nearly 6 months of this; it takes 2-3 months to churn out green infanteers capable of following basic orders despite being shot at and I imagine their training barracks will have been hard at it provided a steady stream of recruits can be found or conscripted. The hard part is training subalterns to lead them and finding enough NCOs to tell the subalterns what to do.
Grumfutock said:
Really? Not how I was told it but if you say so. Why are you so sure? I was told that the Serbs forced people out long before the NATO bombing.
That's just not true, I know many Serbs and Albanians from Kosovo and everybody knows that even if Serbs behaved perfectly to them Albanians would still want their Republic (which is a legit goal anyway, especially when you are huge majority).AreOut said:
Grumfutock said:
Really? Not how I was told it but if you say so. Why are you so sure? I was told that the Serbs forced people out long before the NATO bombing.
That's just not true, I know many Serbs and Albanians from Kosovo and everybody knows that even if Serbs behaved perfectly to them Albanians would still want their Republic (which is a legit goal anyway, especially when you are huge majority).hidetheelephants said:
DMN said:
raftom said:
AFAIK they don't even have any kind of wild weasel formations.
They do have several different types of anti-radiation missle. However most are old, and as you say they have very little experience in actually using them.The Ukraine has had nearly 6 months of this; it takes 2-3 months to churn out green infanteers capable of following basic orders despite being shot at and I imagine their training barracks will have been hard at it provided a steady stream of recruits can be found or conscripted. The hard part is training subalterns to lead them and finding enough NCOs to tell the subalterns what to do.
vxr8mate said:
I read today that Ukraine are applying to join NATO. If they are accepted do they qualify for military assistance or will it all be over and done by the time the papers are filed?
Not sure is the honest answer but I would suggest that IF they do and NATO wants to get involved the paperwork will be fast tracked, if not it will take years and be bogged down in admin 
HRW published a report detailing torture and kidnapping on the 'People's Republics'.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/28/ukraine-rebel-f...
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/28/ukraine-rebel-f...
HRW said:
After an hour, men took Levchuk away for questioning. Two hours later they took Kluger to the second floor. Kluger was able to make out three interrogators wearing military fatigues. Two other men stood behind him and delivered kicks and punches. He said another five people were observing the proceedings:
"They [interrogators] asked me if I was involved with Euromaidan. They also wanted to know if I worked for one of the election commissions [for the May 25 Ukrainian presidential elections]. I admitted to being on an election commission and they started screaming, “How much do they pay you? What do you do for them?” Those who stood behind me beat me for giving snide replies or thinking too much before answering their questions. They punched me on the head, on the liver, in the solar plexus. One of them put his gun to my head and pulled the trigger. The gun wasn’t loaded, but I did not know that. The beating went on for some 40 minutes.... Then, a guy with a cover name, Cherep [Skull], took me back to the basement and said he’d tear my liver out if I didn’t get the chair of my election commission to come to them…. Their interrogations were all about breaking you."
"They [interrogators] asked me if I was involved with Euromaidan. They also wanted to know if I worked for one of the election commissions [for the May 25 Ukrainian presidential elections]. I admitted to being on an election commission and they started screaming, “How much do they pay you? What do you do for them?” Those who stood behind me beat me for giving snide replies or thinking too much before answering their questions. They punched me on the head, on the liver, in the solar plexus. One of them put his gun to my head and pulled the trigger. The gun wasn’t loaded, but I did not know that. The beating went on for some 40 minutes.... Then, a guy with a cover name, Cherep [Skull], took me back to the basement and said he’d tear my liver out if I didn’t get the chair of my election commission to come to them…. Their interrogations were all about breaking you."
Reuters: Don't mess with nuclear Russia, Putin says
Mental ill person said:
President Vladimir Putin said on Friday Russia's armed forces, backed by its nuclear arsenal, were ready to meet any aggression, declaring at a pro-Kremlin youth camp that foreign states should understand: "It's best not to mess with us."
(...)
"Russia is far from being involved in any large-scale conflicts," he said at the camp on the banks of Lake Seliger. "We don't want that and don't plan on it. But naturally, we should always be ready to repel any aggression towards Russia.
"Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us," said Putin, dressed casually in a grey sweater and light blue jeans.
"Thank God, I think no one is thinking of unleashing a large-scale conflict with Russia. I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers."
(...)
"Russia is far from being involved in any large-scale conflicts," he said at the camp on the banks of Lake Seliger. "We don't want that and don't plan on it. But naturally, we should always be ready to repel any aggression towards Russia.
"Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us," said Putin, dressed casually in a grey sweater and light blue jeans.
"Thank God, I think no one is thinking of unleashing a large-scale conflict with Russia. I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers."
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