War with Russia

[johnxjsc1985]

si-h said:

Those jets look a bit fake......
Any other people think this ?
( ok flame me....)

Can anyone really say what is going on over there other than the poor sods who have to live with this everyday. All we have to suffer today is 12 hours of transfer deadline day rubbish.

[AreOut]

Transmitter Man said:

Is Putin going to stop once he has annexed Ukraine's coastline or will he continue into central and western Ukraine ?

Phil

I think he will, connecting Russia with Transnistria and securing the land route to Crimea would satisfy Russians. No point of taking land where you are not in majority (or close to majority), could just cause problems to your whole country.

[raftom]

Hollande said:

"Conditions to proceed with the delivery of the first Mistral are not met"

https://twitter.com/Elysee/status/5071967988183490...

http://rt.com/news/184848-france-mistral-delivery-...

[AreOut]

France has lost much more here IMO.

[0000]

I suspect NATO are making sure they don't lose out. They're not due to go until November anyway are they? This'll mean a lot more if it stills stands then...

[raftom]

Hair raising German TV reportage about the Ukrainian troops sieged some days ago in Ilovaisk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqTQ6m6xmg

[skyrover]

raftom said:

Hair raising German TV reportage about the Ukrainian troops sieged some days ago in Ilovaisk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqTQ6m6xmg

Utterly disgusting how this went down...

After days of being trapped in Ilovaisk, commanders of government forces in the city attempted to negotiate an agreement that would allow them to withdraw from the city.[18] Russian president Vladimir Putin said in the early morning on 29 August that a "humanitarian corridor for besieged Ukrainian soldiers" should be established, allowing the trapped soldiers to leave Ilovaisk.[20]

Yuri Beryoza, a commander in the Dnipro Battalion, managed to quickly reach an agreement with Russian commanders in Ilovaisk to establish such a corridor. At 06:00, government forces began to move out of Ilovaisk in a column of sixty vehicles.[18] The first lorry in the column, carrying dead and wounded soldiers, was flying a white flag. The column advanced 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) along the corridor, about an hour's drive, but was then surrounded by Russian and insurgent troops.[18][20]

These troops opened fired on the column with mortars and heavy machine guns. Vehicles exploded, and the column was obliterated.[18] Soldiers attempted to flee, but many were captured by Russian and insurgent forces. One fleeing Ukrainian soldier described the situation as "a real meat grinder".[20]

At least 100 soldiers were killed in the ambush, with many more injured or taken prisoner. The Ukrainian government described the events as a "massacre".[4][5] One insurgent commander said he had taken 173 Ukrainian soldiers prisoner near Ilovaisk, in the aftermath of the ambush. He said that he would use them as labourers to rebuild destroyed Donbass cities.[20]

A Ukrainian official said that, in total, more than 500 Ukrainian soldiers had been taken prisoner by pro-Russian forces.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ilovaisk

[scherzkeks]

skyrover said:

Utterly disgusting how this went down...

You left out the part where the Ukrainian Army attacks the town.

[skyrover]

scherzkeks said:

skyrover said:

Utterly disgusting how this went down...

You left out the part where the Ukrainian Army attacks the town.

as opposed to the Russians?

[PRTVR]

scherzkeks said:

skyrover said:

Utterly disgusting how this went down...

You left out the part where the Ukrainian Army attacks the town.

A Ukrainian town, they can do what they like in their own country.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

PRTVR said:

A Ukrainian town, they can do what they like in their own country.

Quick clarification on the comment.

Like in Rwanda (Genocide)? Should any nation be allowed to do whatever it like to its own people?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 4th September 15:49

[raftom]

Holly whataboutery Batman.

[AreOut]

0000 said:

I suspect NATO are making sure they don't lose out. They're not due to go until November anyway are they? This'll mean a lot more if it stills stands then...

yupp late November I think, will be interesting to see how that will play out, I think Russians have paid part in advance and they will want their money back with interest accounted, breaking such contracts is usually much more profitable for the buyer

edit : it seems frenchies change their mind very quickly, and the reason for continuing with business is silly at best, "OK guys just temporarily announce a cease-fire until we finish the business and later do whatever you want"

http://www.rferl.org/content/hollande-cease-fire-p...

Edited by AreOut on Thursday 4th September 17:05

[PRTVR]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

PRTVR said:

A Ukrainian town, they can do what they like in their own country.

Quick clarification on the comment.

Like in Rwanda (Genocide)? Should any nation be allowed to do whatever it like to its own people?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 4th September 15:49

Its a difficult choice, no genocide should not be allowed, but surely if you believe in nation states the people to deal with any problem within their boundary is the government of that state, not an adjoining country.

[Octoposse]

PRTVR said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

PRTVR said:

A Ukrainian town, they can do what they like in their own country.

Quick clarification on the comment.

Like in Rwanda (Genocide)? Should any nation be allowed to do whatever it like to its own people?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 4th September 15:49

Its a difficult choice, no genocide should not be allowed, but surely if you believe in nation states the people to deal with any problem within their boundary is the government of that state, not an adjoining country.

Well, there's the Kosovo precedent.

And there was undeniable indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets in the East by the regime in Kiev until Russia put a stop to it. The sort of indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets that we'd have got very indignant about if the boot were on the other foot . .

[PRTVR]

Octoposse said:

PRTVR said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

PRTVR said:

A Ukrainian town, they can do what they like in their own country.

Quick clarification on the comment.

Like in Rwanda (Genocide)? Should any nation be allowed to do whatever it like to its own people?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 4th September 15:49

Its a difficult choice, no genocide should not be allowed, but surely if you believe in nation states the people to deal with any problem within their boundary is the government of that state, not an adjoining country.

Well, there's the Kosovo precedent.

And there was undeniable indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets in the East by the regime in Kiev until Russia put a stop to it. The sort of indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets that we'd have got very indignant about if the boot were on the other foot . .

And then we are back to the problem of dumb munitions,along with troops defending a town from within and return fire killing civilians, without a mandate from the UN troops moving from one country into another has to be considered wrong.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Octoposse said:

ell, there's the Kosovo precedent.

The one Russia did not want at all because it would set a precedent of succession, another Blair legacy.

[raftom]

The school yard bully is poking another kid in the eye.

http://news.err.ee/v/main_news/b5a7a5ab-f300-4ef2-...

[toppstuff]

I know that one of the prevailing attitudes toward Putin has been that of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't".

But I am wondering if there may come a time soon when this ceases to be true, although I know little of the potential rivals to Putins crown.

Putin must be having some tough conversations inside Russia, given that he is now seriously damaging the country's economy. He must be collecting enemies within.

While he has popular support on the back of phoney, manipulative nationalism, you have to wonder if regime change isn't on the cards over the next few years.

Interesting times. Maybe dangerous times, too.

[cardigankid]

Still think this is the result of ill advised interference by the EU in what is patently a major power's back yard, and I am stunned by the incompetency of the intelligence and diplomacy. I also think that various industrial elements particularly in the USA are desperate for a hot conflict so we can fire some of their expensive missiles. So far as I am concerned they can go and fk themselves. This is not our war.