War with Russia

[toppstuff]

109er said:

Have you seen the latest Russian missile test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvigKyp_hcs

About 1.09 in

I find it more interesting that suddenly the existence of these videos and the way they are linked all over the internet has increased massively recently.

The Russian communication strategy is working well. Their videos demonstrating their power are being linked to, spread around and disseminated widely. Exactly as they no doubt planned.

We are all willing participants in spreading their propaganda.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

toppstuff said:

109er said:

Have you seen the latest Russian missile test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvigKyp_hcs

About 1.09 in

I find it more interesting that suddenly the existence of these videos and the way they are linked all over the internet has increased massively recently.

The Russian communication strategy is working well. Their videos demonstrating their power are being linked to, spread around and disseminated widely. Exactly as they no doubt planned.

We are all willing participants in spreading their propaganda.

Russian propaganda want us to believe a media and political fantasy story, thus providing justification to invade a country, killing 100 000s of people, including women and children, decimating civilian infrastructure, fracturing the nation into a sectarian civil war, with troops committing untold numerous human rights abuses, widespread torture and finally destabilising the region for decades.

little true news coming out of the conflict from national or mainstream media due to the embedded nature of the reporting leading to a sterilised and bias reporting of events. The revelations of state sanctioned torture, human rights abuses and unjustified killing of civilians is revealed through independent news sources and whistle blowers.

Oops, sorry, so easy to confuse with the Iraq invasion sometimes.

Propaganda is not the sole domain of the Russians.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 18th September 19:11

[AreOut]

109er said:

Have you seen the latest Russian missile test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvigKyp_hcs

About 1.09 in

Mosquito missile, few of those enough to sink a carrier, however if it ever comes to that stage Russians would rather use tactical nukes (hope XJ is asleep..)

[Mojocvh]

Ukraine crisis: Forgotten death of Russian soldier


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29249643

[skyrover]

Mojocvh said:

Ukraine crisis: Forgotten death of Russian soldier


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29249643

Somebody didn't want the BBC running that piece

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/sep/18/bbc-j...

[Transmitter Man]

Mojocvh said:

Ukraine crisis: Forgotten death of Russian soldier


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29249643

Nothing but a disposable pawn in Putin's game.

The sad fact is, as Iraq clearly showed, is that our politicians are not too different but at least our media has more freedom than does that of the Russian Federation.

The wife's from Ukraine, speaks Ukrainian & Russian and has no interest at all in ever going back.

Skype's your friend.

Phil

[Liokault]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Oops, sorry, so easy to confuse with the Iraq invasion sometimes.

Propaganda is not the sole domain of the Russians.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 18th September 19:11

And yet, we have a western press that reported hour after hour in a very negative manner abuse in Iraq. I very much doubt that RT reported in the same was on Chechnya as the BBC did on Iraq.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Liokault said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Oops, sorry, so easy to confuse with the Iraq invasion sometimes.

Propaganda is not the sole domain of the Russians.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 18th September 19:11

And yet, we have a western press that reported hour after hour in a very negative manner abuse in Iraq. I very much doubt that RT reported in the same was on Chechnya as the BBC did on Iraq.

Chechen war was quite different to the invasion of sovereign country half a world away based on government sourced and media repeated lies. Did our media sources even question the Blair 45 Minute claim or the existence of WMD ? Did they point out the fallacy of Saddam Hussein supporting a Saudi backed group ? Did the mainstream media break the story of Abu Ghraib ? The abuse of civilians and the scale of civilians casualties ?

No, they followed the government line almost to the letter. A D notice also ensure that inconvenient information cannot see the light of day, ever.

The revelations about the Russian bungling of the First Chechen war and devastation of the second Chechen war also came out of independent news, not mainstream Russian media, no different to the Iraq war in that respect.

RT is no better or worse than our own media sources. RT does not do subtle but certainly no better than our own Newspeak suppliers.

[skyrover]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Chechen war was quite different to the invasion of sovereign country half a world away based on government sourced and media repeated lies. Did our media sources even question the Blair 45 Minute claim or the existence of WMD ? Did they point out the fallacy of Saddam Hussein supporting a Saudi backed group ? Did the mainstream media break the story of Abu Ghraib ? The abuse of civilians and the scale of civilians casualties ?

Yes... every minute of every bloody day

QuantumTokoloshi said:

RT is no better or worse than our own media sources. RT does not do subtle but certainly no better than our own Newspeak suppliers.

There is a vast, measurable difference between bias (which every news organisation in the world is guilty of) and state sanctioned propaganda.

But of course you know this and are simply trolling now.

[Liokault]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

RT is no better or worse than our own media sources. RT does not do subtle but certainly no better than our own Newspeak suppliers.

Total rubbish!

When was the last time RT ran a story that was was uncomfortable for Putin?

The sheer scale of the overt lies that RT presents as fact in no way compares to most western press.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Chechen war was quite different to the invasion of sovereign country half a world away based on government sourced and media repeated lies. Did our media sources even question the Blair 45 Minute claim or the existence of WMD ? Did they point out the fallacy of Saddam Hussein supporting a Saudi backed group ? Did the mainstream media break the story of Abu Ghraib ? The abuse of civilians and the scale of civilians casualties ?

Yes... every minute of every bloody day

QuantumTokoloshi said:

RT is no better or worse than our own media sources. RT does not do subtle but certainly no better than our own Newspeak suppliers.

There is a vast, measurable difference between bias (which every news organisation in the world is guilty of) and state sanctioned propaganda.

But of course you know this and are simply trolling now.

There is no point continuing to arguing this, let us agree to disagree.

You are welcome to believe the BBC or Sky "FOX-UK" news as the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. 500 000 dead Iraqi civilians might disagree with that.

Remember to dutifully recite; war is peace, freedom is slavery, and most of all, ignorance is strength.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 19th September 10:16

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Liokault said:

Total rubbish!

When was the last time RT ran a story that was was uncomfortable for Putin?

The sheer scale of the overt lies that RT presents as fact in no way compares to most western press.

Look back ten years, and evaluate that statement; as regards the BBC, ITV, Sky etc. It will not make comfortable viewing for the so-called free press.

Our memories cannot be so short as too forget the on-message media parroting, "45 minutes till Armageddon", "existence of WMD", "Al-qaeda connection to Saddam Hussein".

I am sad to see, that perhaps it is.

[Liokault]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Liokault said:

Total rubbish!

When was the last time RT ran a story that was was uncomfortable for Putin?

The sheer scale of the overt lies that RT presents as fact in no way compares to most western press.

Look back ten years, and evaluate that statement; as regards the BBC, ITV, Sky etc. It will not make comfortable viewing for the so-called free press.

Our memories cannot be so short as too forget the on-message media parroting, "45 minutes till Armageddon", "existence of WMD", "Al-qaeda connection to Saddam Hussein".

I am sad to see, that perhaps it is.

No, we didn’t believe 45 minutes because the press reported it, we believed it because that is what Tony Blair stood in parliament and said.

When it was clear that this was not valid it was reported in a massively damaging manner to the government.

How would RT have handled it if the tables were turned?

You haven’t answered my question yet, when was the last time RT broadcast anything that made Putin uncomfortable?

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Liokault said:

No, we didn’t believe 45 minutes because the press reported it, we believed it because that is what Tony Blair stood in parliament and said.

When it was clear that this was not valid it was reported in a massively damaging manner to the government.

Blair said it in Parliament, so it much be true! Cannot possibly lie in parliament, filled as it is with politicians.

Did the press question it, or press the government on it? The clarity came years later, good going free press!

Ask yourself a question, how much of the UK media is concentrated in either government or private hands? The answer might surprise you. Plural it is not.

Your total belief is beginning to mimic the "USA, USA, USA, OOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAH" types found across the water.

Liokault said:

How would RT have handled it if the tables were turned?

No idea, and do not care either, Propaganda from different mouths is still propaganda.

Liokault said:

You haven’t answered my question yet, when was the last time RT broadcast anything that made Putin uncomfortable?

Refer to comment above for guidance on my position.

[skyrover]

OKay.. lets try RT's own reporters

William Dunbar quits after RT refuses to let him report on Russian airstrikes in civilian areas during 2008 Georgian crisis.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2008/a...

Liz Wahl quit's live on air as she is not comfortable preaching misinformation about Ukraine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/russi...

Sara firth quit's due RT's blatant propaganda over MH17

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/18/mh17-...

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

OKay.. lets try RT's own reporters

William Dunbar quits after RT refuses to let him report on Russian airstrikes in civilian areas during 2008 Georgian crisis.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2008/a...

Liz Wahl quit's live on air as she is not comfortable preaching misinformation about Ukraine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/russi...

Sara firth quit's due RT's blatant propaganda over MH17

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/18/mh17-...

Might I mention the case of Andrew Gilligan, BBC and the UK government to provide some balance. They left, he was pushed!

Pointing towards Oceania propaganda as worse than Eurasia is futile, ignorance is strength, in both cases.

[skyrover]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Might I mention the case of Andrew Gilligan, BBC and the UK government to provide some balance. They left, he was pushed!

Andrew Gilligan... a prime example of how a free press can, and does investigate and expose the wrong of those in power.

In Russia he would probably be encased in concrete by now.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Might I mention the case of Andrew Gilligan, BBC and the UK government to provide some balance. They left, he was pushed!

Andrew Gilligan... a prime example of how a free press can, and does investigate and expose the wrong of those in power.

In Russia he would probably be encased in concrete by now.

I love your delusion, he loses his job for exposing world changing lies, is hounded by the government and bowed into silence, the hard questions he asked are forgotten, until things start going wrong with the adventure years later. Oh never mind that, well done free press.

We are not going to agree on this.

I am no supporter of RT, and recognise the intrinsic bias they portray. I am also well aware of the limitations of the western "free press" you hold so much faith in. One propagandist is no better than another.

[skyrover]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

I love your delusion, he loses his job for exposing world changing lies, is hounded by the government and bowed into silence, the hard questions he asked are forgotten, until things start going wrong with the adventure years later. Oh never mind that, well done free press.

He went on to bring down Ken Livingstone and is currently doing very well for himself as a freelance journalist and cycling commissioner for London. There's no great conspiracy to crush him.

QuantumTokoloshi said:

I am no supporter of RT, and recognise the intrinsic bias they portray. I am also well aware of the limitations of the western "free press" you hold so much faith in. One propagandist is no better than another.

Again, you are confusing "bias" with "propaganda".

Let me know when RT contradicts the Kremlin.

[EskimoArapaho]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

RT is no better or worse than our own media sources.

You originally had a decent point, but this shows you have no sense of proportion.