War with Russia

[Mr Whippy]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The way the Syrian story changed over the course of a year, preparing the population for another war, that far from actually asking questions, the media just needed news fodder, no investigation, simply regurgitation of the required line.

What is most worrying is that at no point did the USA look to be showing restraint. It took Russia saying no to stop us being involved in another non-war of "liberalisation"

What that really means is anyone's guess but it probably has something to do with oil

Dave

[Digga]

Mr Whippy said:

What is most worrying is that at no point did the USA look to be showing restraint. It took Russia saying no to stop us being involved in another non-war of "liberalisation"

From where I saw those events unfolding, I have to agree that Russia appeared to be the voice of reason in that instance.

[Mr Whippy]

Digga said:

Mr Whippy said:

What is most worrying is that at no point did the USA look to be showing restraint. It took Russia saying no to stop us being involved in another non-war of "liberalisation"

From where I saw those events unfolding, I have to agree that Russia appeared to be the voice of reason in that instance.

As long as there always is a voice of reason that is a good thing.

I'm not sure economic war against Russia to cause a regime change to have a more Western friendly leader would always be a positive thing if they'd just roll over and let the West do what they like.

Dave

[Jimbeaux]

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

[Transmitter Man]

Mr Whippy said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The way the Syrian story changed over the course of a year, preparing the population for another war, that far from actually asking questions, the media just needed news fodder, no investigation, simply regurgitation of the required line.

What is most worrying is that at no point did the USA look to be showing restraint. It took Russia saying no to stop us being involved in another non-war of "liberalisation"

What that really means is anyone's guess but it probably has something to do with oil

Dave

Dave,

Syria has little oil compared to the major producers im the middle east including it's next door neighbor Iraq?

The Syrian conflict has nothing to do with the black gold.

Phil

[IroningMan]

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

Where TF have you been? Oil is falling becuz of USA/Saudi conspiracy to trash Russia and promote western-friendly regime change there. Of course Putin will lash out - but it will be righteous indignation and self-defence, not desperation.

Man.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

That is the big question, the oil priced has been depressed by the Saudis, certainly with US approval. It gets two big birds with one stone, Russia and Iran both suffer, common enemies to both countries. The wisdom of blatantly trying to destabilise a prickly nuclear armed power is a risky strategy.

Putin will undoubtedly lash out, but what that will be is the question. I would guess some mysterious explosions or unexpected FSB sponsored "maintenance issues" affecting oil and gas production in the middle east, pushing up the price of oil and gas for the other producers.

The countries getting caught up such as Nigeria and Venezuela are the bonus play if they fall, and more amenable governments installed.

China is the silent winner, hoovering up vast quantities of cheap oil.

This is a also a win for Saudi and co. As it make fracking and the more expensive oil operations, such as tar sands, uneconomical.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 8th December 15:08

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

Dave,

Syria has little oil compared to the major producers im the middle east including it's next door neighbor Iraq?

The Syrian conflict has nothing to do with the black gold.

Phil

It has to do with natural gas, natural gas pipelines and Qatar getting in on the regional power and regime change game.

The Saudis, USA, Turkey, Iran and Russia are all playing geopolitics in Syria, with the Syrians being the proxy battle ground.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 8th December 15:26

[Jimbeaux]

IroningMan said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

Where TF have you been? Oil is falling becuz of USA/Saudi conspiracy to trash Russia and promote western-friendly regime change there. Of course Putin will lash out - but it will be righteous indignation and self-defence, not desperation.

Man.

But of course!

[Jimbeaux]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

That is the big question, the oil priced has been depressed by the Saudis, certainly with US approval. It gets two big birds with one stone, Russia and Iran both suffer, common enemies to both countries. The wisdom of blatantly trying to destabilise a prickly nuclear armed power is a risky strategy.

Putin will undoubtedly lash out, but what that will be is the question. I would guess some mysterious explosions or unexpected FSB sponsored "maintenance issues" affecting oil and gas production in the middle east, pushing up the price of oil and gas for the other producers.

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Jimbeaux said:

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

I edited my comment above to include that. Then saw your post. it takes me a few attempts to get everything down properly.

[Mr Whippy]

Transmitter Man said:

Mr Whippy said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The way the Syrian story changed over the course of a year, preparing the population for another war, that far from actually asking questions, the media just needed news fodder, no investigation, simply regurgitation of the required line.

What is most worrying is that at no point did the USA look to be showing restraint. It took Russia saying no to stop us being involved in another non-war of "liberalisation"

What that really means is anyone's guess but it probably has something to do with oil

Dave

Dave,

Syria has little oil compared to the major producers im the middle east including it's next door neighbor Iraq?

The Syrian conflict has nothing to do with the black gold.

Phil

I thought that Syria was important to the USA, because Saudi Arabia doesn't like Syria... and action/inaction on Syria is why Saudi are doing what they're doing now.

The Syrian conflict would seem to have something to do with oil. What exactly is another thing.

[Mr Whippy]

Jimbeaux said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

That is the big question, the oil priced has been depressed by the Saudis, certainly with US approval. It gets two big birds with one stone, Russia and Iran both suffer, common enemies to both countries. The wisdom of blatantly trying to destabilise a prickly nuclear armed power is a risky strategy.

Putin will undoubtedly lash out, but what that will be is the question. I would guess some mysterious explosions or unexpected FSB sponsored "maintenance issues" affecting oil and gas production in the middle east, pushing up the price of oil and gas for the other producers.

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

That is what I've read from news outlets that don't bias to the West, or are liberal middlists.

Saudi Arabia want action on Syria for some reason, and they're looking to the USA to do something about them. Since the USA couldn't, because Russia used some sense, Saudi Arabia are now screwing both of them over on oil price.

The only logical conclusion you can draw is USA are bhes to anyone with oil and they're getting bh slapped.

Why the USA doesn't invest in some decent energy independence/infrastructure/tech is beyond me. (decent means not dependent on everyone in the world pumping just enough oil to make your own fracking/shale oils viable through a high oil price)

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Asking the question 5 Ways Russia's Demise Could Spread Around The World. It is zerohedge, but sometimes they have a gem amongst the dross.

Be Careful What You Wish For: 5 Ways Russia's Demise Could Spread Around The World

[Jimbeaux]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Jimbeaux said:

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

I edited my comment above to include that. Then saw your post. it takes me a few attempts to get everything down properly.

[Jimbeaux]

Mr Whippy said:

Jimbeaux said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

That is the big question, the oil priced has been depressed by the Saudis, certainly with US approval. It gets two big birds with one stone, Russia and Iran both suffer, common enemies to both countries. The wisdom of blatantly trying to destabilise a prickly nuclear armed power is a risky strategy.

Putin will undoubtedly lash out, but what that will be is the question. I would guess some mysterious explosions or unexpected FSB sponsored "maintenance issues" affecting oil and gas production in the middle east, pushing up the price of oil and gas for the other producers.

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

That is what I've read from news outlets that don't bias to the West, or are liberal middlists.

Saudi Arabia want action on Syria for some reason, and they're looking to the USA to do something about them. Since the USA couldn't, because Russia used some sense, Saudi Arabia are now screwing both of them over on oil price.

The only logical conclusion you can draw is USA are bhes to anyone with oil and they're getting bh slapped.

Why the USA doesn't invest in some decent energy independence/infrastructure/tech is beyond me. (decent means not dependent on everyone in the world pumping just enough oil to make your own fracking/shale oils viable through a high oil price)

I believe you have it off a bit there. The Saudis are trying to make the price too low but that is not going to stop U.S. producers. It has come out that the CEOs of producers here met in Texas and anticipated such a thing and have made provisions to ride the Saudis' attempt out. Corporate outplays government - what a shocker! Anyway, we are gas independent and well on our way to oil independence. Where have you been?

[Mr Whippy]

Jimbeaux said:

Mr Whippy said:

Jimbeaux said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

That is the big question, the oil priced has been depressed by the Saudis, certainly with US approval. It gets two big birds with one stone, Russia and Iran both suffer, common enemies to both countries. The wisdom of blatantly trying to destabilise a prickly nuclear armed power is a risky strategy.

Putin will undoubtedly lash out, but what that will be is the question. I would guess some mysterious explosions or unexpected FSB sponsored "maintenance issues" affecting oil and gas production in the middle east, pushing up the price of oil and gas for the other producers.

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

That is what I've read from news outlets that don't bias to the West, or are liberal middlists.

Saudi Arabia want action on Syria for some reason, and they're looking to the USA to do something about them. Since the USA couldn't, because Russia used some sense, Saudi Arabia are now screwing both of them over on oil price.

The only logical conclusion you can draw is USA are bhes to anyone with oil and they're getting bh slapped.

Why the USA doesn't invest in some decent energy independence/infrastructure/tech is beyond me. (decent means not dependent on everyone in the world pumping just enough oil to make your own fracking/shale oils viable through a high oil price)

I believe you have it off a bit there. The Saudis are trying to make the price too low but that is not going to stop U.S. producers. It has come out that the CEOs of producers here met in Texas and anticipated such a thing and have made provisions to ride the Saudis' attempt out. Corporate outplays government - what a shocker! Anyway, we are gas independent and well on our way to oil independence. Where have you been?

I'm sure there is more going on than what company CEO's are arbitrarily telling people about what they had planned and saw coming.


I generally agree, but I'll remain open minded to the motives and realities of this as there is lots of biased news flying around right now.

Dave

[Jimbeaux]

Mr Whippy said:

Jimbeaux said:

Mr Whippy said:

Jimbeaux said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, Russia's economy is plummeting. Not due so much to Western sanctions as with the falling price of oil. The question now is will Putin play nicer or lash out in desperation.

That is the big question, the oil priced has been depressed by the Saudis, certainly with US approval. It gets two big birds with one stone, Russia and Iran both suffer, common enemies to both countries. The wisdom of blatantly trying to destabilise a prickly nuclear armed power is a risky strategy.

Putin will undoubtedly lash out, but what that will be is the question. I would guess some mysterious explosions or unexpected FSB sponsored "maintenance issues" affecting oil and gas production in the middle east, pushing up the price of oil and gas for the other producers.

Some believe that the Saudis are trying to lower the price to make fracking here non-cost effective, with the Russians' problem being a side effect.

That is what I've read from news outlets that don't bias to the West, or are liberal middlists.

Saudi Arabia want action on Syria for some reason, and they're looking to the USA to do something about them. Since the USA couldn't, because Russia used some sense, Saudi Arabia are now screwing both of them over on oil price.

The only logical conclusion you can draw is USA are bhes to anyone with oil and they're getting bh slapped.

Why the USA doesn't invest in some decent energy independence/infrastructure/tech is beyond me. (decent means not dependent on everyone in the world pumping just enough oil to make your own fracking/shale oils viable through a high oil price)

I believe you have it off a bit there. The Saudis are trying to make the price too low but that is not going to stop U.S. producers. It has come out that the CEOs of producers here met in Texas and anticipated such a thing and have made provisions to ride the Saudis' attempt out. Corporate outplays government - what a shocker! Anyway, we are gas independent and well on our way to oil independence. Where have you been?

I'm sure there is more going on than what company CEO's are arbitrarily telling people about what they had planned and saw coming.


I generally agree, but I'll remain open minded to the motives and realities of this as there is lots of biased news flying around right now.

Dave

What? There is biased news?

[skyrover]

Anyone recon the "rebels" have motor insurance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFxx5W5xAs8

[AreOut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4D0EiuEsg0