War with Russia

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

long overdue... but I somehow doubt they will

Yup, the Russians should then start supplying Mexican separatists / drug gangs with current generation ATGMs, long range artillery, heavy machine guns and armoured vehicles, seems an entirely fair response.

[skyrover]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

skyrover said:

long overdue... but I somehow doubt they will

Yup, the Russians should then start supplying Mexican separatists / drug gangs with ATGMs, long range artillery and heavy machine guns, seems an entirely fair response.

Well I suppose "fair" tallies with everything the Russian's have done so far

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

skyrover said:

long overdue... but I somehow doubt they will

Yup, the Russians should then start supplying Mexican separatists / drug gangs with ATGMs, long range artillery and heavy machine guns, seems an entirely fair response.

Well I suppose "fair" tallies with everything the Russian's have done so far

The same criticism can be levelled at the EU and USA. Violent and bloody Coup d'états, as we have in Ukraine are a US covert / overt speciality.

If that does not work, simply invade seems the default next step. This case is a little different, as the other protagonist can push back heavily in a "glow in the dark" way.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 3rd February 09:58

[QuantumTokoloshi]

The simplistic almost childish, good guy V bad guy narrative that is used now to describe complex geopolitical situations is a huge failing for politicians, the mainstream media etc. This failing is certainly intended.

As recent events in Syria, Afghanistan, Libya and Iraq etc. have proved, the simplified narrative of Die Hard or John Wayne is completely inadequate to describe these situations. It does make a great tool in which to ensure the uncritical public know which way to think, before getting back to 'big brother on ice in the jungle while dancing'.

The public however, has been burnt with Blair and co. and now are not just accepting the indoctrination. The simple narrative of 'Blair lied' is not going away. it is almost ironic in this case.

The politicians will need to wait a little longer for the herd memory of the Blair / Bush deception to fade, before the apathetic acceptance returns.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 3rd February 09:57

[toppstuff]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The simplistic almost childish, good guy V bad guy narrative

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 3rd February 09:48

I dont agree.

Sure, the US only acts to protect its own interests. But this misses the point.

The Russians ARE the bad guys. They are a duplicitous, untrustworthy, corrupt, undemocratic, autocratic nation without any friends in the region after decades of bullying their neighbours. And they just can't help themselves from carrying on where they left off.

They should just partition Ukraine and leave it at that. Let the Russians have their ethnic Russian regions while the rest of Ukraine faces West.

It isn't the fault of the West that 20 years or so after the fall of communism, Russia has failed to build any friendly alliances in the region or even any meaningful trading arrangements. People don't respond to bullies. Its their own fault that nobody wants them.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

toppstuff said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The simplistic almost childish, good guy V bad guy narrative

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 3rd February 09:48

I dont agree.

Sure, the US Russians only acts to protect its own interests. But this misses the point.

The Russians US / EU ARE the bad guys. They are a duplicitous, untrustworthy, corrupt, undemocratic, autocratic nation without any friends in the region after decades of bullying their neighbours . And they just can't help themselves from carrying on where they left off.

People don't respond to bullies. Its their own fault that nobody wants them. (Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Syria etc. )

You have made my point perfectly for me, notice how easily they are to interchange.

Supporting and aiding a violent Coup d'état to overthrow a democratically elected government, does not support the 'Freedom and Democracy r us good guys' meme we are fed on a regular basis.

Partition sounds like a reasonable option, but the Ukrainian government is none too keen, either for ethnic Russians in the East or ethnic Hungarians in the West.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 3rd February 10:26

[scherzkeks]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

You have made my point perfectly for me,

He doesn't understand, but I admire your tenacity.

[toppstuff]

scherzkeks said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

You have made my point perfectly for me,

He doesn't understand, but I admire your tenacity.

I understand perfectly, precisely and clearly.

I also understand the difference between elected democracies where leaders can be removed and despotic autocracies where leaders do whatever they like. You apparently do not.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

toppstuff said:

scherzkeks said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

You have made my point perfectly for me,

He doesn't understand, but I admire your tenacity.

I understand perfectly, precisely and clearly.

I also understand the difference between elected democracies where leaders can be removed and despotic autocracies where leaders do whatever they like. You apparently do not.

That is no way to talk about the EU, Barroso and Juncker would not be happy with you. You might get sent to the feta farms in Greece.

Please stand when ode to joy is played.

[skyrover]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

skyrover said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

skyrover said:

long overdue... but I somehow doubt they will

Yup, the Russians should then start supplying Mexican separatists / drug gangs with ATGMs, long range artillery and heavy machine guns, seems an entirely fair response.

Well I suppose "fair" tallies with everything the Russian's have done so far

The same criticism can be levelled at the EU and USA. Violent and bloody Coup d'états, as we have in Ukraine are a US covert / overt speciality.

If that does not work, simply invade seems the default next step. This case is a little different, as the other protagonist can push back heavily in a "glow in the dark" way.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 3rd February 09:58

You are giving the US too much credit. The Ukrainian uprising has been simmering ever since the fall of the Soviet Union. It was very very close to following Polands example and committing to deep reforms back in the 90's.

It was a missed opportunity that is coming back to bite them.

[scherzkeks]

toppstuff said:

I understand perfectly, precisely and clearly.

I also understand the difference between elected democracies where leaders can be removed and despotic autocracies where leaders do whatever they like. You apparently do not.

Thank you for confirming.

[toppstuff]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

toppstuff said:

scherzkeks said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

You have made my point perfectly for me,

He doesn't understand, but I admire your tenacity.

I understand perfectly, precisely and clearly.

I also understand the difference between elected democracies where leaders can be removed and despotic autocracies where leaders do whatever they like. You apparently do not.

That is no way to talk about the EU, Barroso and Juncker would not be happy with you. You might get sent to the feta farms in Greece.

Please stand when ode to joy is played.

Likewise, give my regards to the thriving opposition parties in Russia. this is sarcasm, by the way

[QuantumTokoloshi]

toppstuff said:

Likewise, give my regards to the thriving opposition parties in Russia. this is sarcasm, by the way

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Conspiratorial but worth reading.

The Entire Oil Collapse Is All About Crushing Russian Control Over Syria

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-03/another-c...

[skyrover]

A Russian soldier giving one of the so called "rebels" a punch in the face.

Situation not going so well in Vuhlehirsk apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQQ3cGMJjco&or...

[Octoposse]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Conspiratorial but worth reading.

The Entire Oil Collapse Is All About Crushing Russian Control Over Syria

Not that conspiratorial - more pretty accepted fact. Bizarre that of all the favours the US could have called in from the Saudis - cutting funding for Wahhabism overseas would have been at the top of my list - they chose stuffing the Russians up (with unpredictable outcomes).

[Liokault]

Octoposse said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Conspiratorial but worth reading.

The Entire Oil Collapse Is All About Crushing Russian Control Over Syria

Not that conspiratorial - more pretty accepted fact. Bizarre that of all the favours the US could have called in from the Saudis - cutting funding for Wahhabism overseas would have been at the top of my list - they chose stuffing the Russians up (with unpredictable outcomes).

Accepted by foil hat wearing loons, yes, yes it is.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Adam Curtis has a new documentary called bitter Lake, his blog is also a great time eater.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis

Well worth a watch, as it covers Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Syria but is equally applicable to the Ukraine and Russian situation.

It is particularly apt now.

[superkartracer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31142276

Nato to bolster Eastern Europe against Russia.

And

http://news.sky.com/story/1421850/putin-has-asperg...

Suffered an "insult" to his brain ..

Edited by superkartracer on Thursday 5th February 13:18

[Transmitter Man]

Does anyone think it's work the talk with Putin?

I think not.

Phil