War with Russia
Discussion
pops666tt said:
I think Putin is a much bigger danger to us than ISIS. He is a powerful man on a mission and things could escalate very quickly.
Pathetic.Russia - Lots of 'em here in UK. Many rich. Some 'very' rich. Mostly known. Ambassador here. A UK embassy in Kensington Palace Gardens, London. Etc.
ISIS? Or anyone connected, radicalised by, believing in it. Any here on uk soil? Who knows? Highly b..... likely. Ambassador - don't be b daft. UK embassy? Again, b ridiculous... however, bet your bottom dollar it has something here, like a Trojan Horse, but one problem, we haven't a b clue where it is!
Which is a much bigger danger to us again? (and by us, I mean Joe Public).
As for the 'Bear' in the skies above us (sorry, 'near' the skies above us) what do you expect when relations are so strained. Fighter/bomber/spy planes have nudged rival's air space, testing nerves, ...for years. Some of us were born when there was a real cold war going on.
Edited by dandarez on Thursday 19th February 23:31
Chest Rockwell said:
Oh and now we have the Progressive keyword "wow".
People of the former Soviet Union also include what are now EU countries, so yeah...not surprised they fear their own govt...might explain why so many are here?
And just who was killed on Blair's orders? On Obama's orders? On Thatcher's orders? yadda yadda yadda...the list could go on I suppose?
Yes I've heard of Joe Stalin, but at some point weren't you Progressives comparing Putin to Adolf Hitler?
Keep up with the emotive rhetoric, it serves you...err...badly.
never mentioned Hitler I merely pointed out that if I was a Russian citizen then I would fear my own Government rather than any western one.How is pointing out the history of Russia killing its own people rhetoric. The media in Russia is completely stifled free speech is just a myth we can laugh at Sky and the BBC but what is your point. The Soviet Union and then Russia have stifled the life out of the country and the corruption is legendary and no its not the same as claiming for a bigger TV for an MP.People of the former Soviet Union also include what are now EU countries, so yeah...not surprised they fear their own govt...might explain why so many are here?
And just who was killed on Blair's orders? On Obama's orders? On Thatcher's orders? yadda yadda yadda...the list could go on I suppose?
Yes I've heard of Joe Stalin, but at some point weren't you Progressives comparing Putin to Adolf Hitler?
Keep up with the emotive rhetoric, it serves you...err...badly.
Wake up Putin is playing a dangerous game.
J4CKO said:
I was thinking that, think you make some good points, I cant imagine he is really interested in ensuring a nuclear war happens that ends up wiping out millions, I however do think he is unstable and a bit cornerned.
If he were unstable he would have been toppled by now. He has huge public support in Russia, something which the EU and NATO has handed to him on a plate. The key here is the 'culture'. The further east you go, the tougher the culture is - something which Progressives in this country refuse to understand. Actions speak louder than words, Putin is an action guy - you can hear that when he literally tells our Socialist EU idiots to F-off at those conferences.
Nuclear warfare in this world is tailored towards 'use them or lose them' after that any target is fair game. He doesn't have an interest in Nuclear War or full on invasion, he's fighting in the Ukraine by proxy. Fighting by proxy is perfectly acceptable for the US and UK to carry out? But not Russia? Funny that?
What is unstable behaviour, is the baiting and expansionist agenda by NATO and the EU along with shat like how Putin will invade Estonia etc. It's utter-bollacks.
But lets put this in perspective: how many countries has the EU and NATO invaded/destabilised since 2000 versus how many countries has Russia invaded and/or destabilised since 2000?
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Thursday 19th February 23:41
johnxjsc1985 said:
never mentioned Hitler I merely pointed out that if I was a Russian citizen then I would fear my own Government rather than any western one.How is pointing out the history of Russia killing its own people rhetoric. The media in Russia is completely stifled free speech is just a myth we can laugh at Sky and the BBC but what is your point. The Soviet Union and then Russia have stifled the life out of the country and the corruption is legendary and no its not the same as claiming for a bigger TV for an MP.
Wake up Putin is playing a dangerous game.
But you're not a Russian citizen, so your comment means nowt.Wake up Putin is playing a dangerous game.
Nope, the EU and NATO are playing a dangerous game...like they did in Iraq, like they did in Afghanistan, like they did in Libya, like they did in Syria etc etc etc. Prey tell of the democracies which the EU and NATO built from the ashes of their bombs..........................NONE!
johnxjsc1985 said:
The media in Russia is completely stifled free speech is just a myth we can laugh at Sky and the BBC but what is your point.
I missed this utter Progressive bollacks. Free speech is stifled here too. The only difference is that the State isn't quite as cavalier about stifling free speech. Organisations such as Unite Against Fascism often stifle free speech, but you have no issue with that? Most of UAF's trustees are MPs, Unions and Lords, yet the UAF decides on it's own terms who can and cannot exercise free speech. But you have no issue with that? Yes, you can laugh at the BBC and Sky...until it's YOU who says something "offensive". But you're towing the line, like the good Progressive you are.
Very sad.
Sorry to interrupt the handbag swinging gents (?) but why such a derogatory wielding of "progressive" all of a sudden? Isn't the idea that we learn from history, advance our thinking, and move forward in a mutually beneficial manner? If fact I'm certain that some very intelligent people over the past few centuries figured out that it's how we evolved past bashing each other over the head with clubs...
It seems odd that so many lives are being lost now, have been lost in the past and will continue to be wasted due to the selfish actions by ALL sides involved in this land grabbing exercise and your all arguing about which "side" is in the right.
Some of you should put the keysword down and get outside once in a while. It's a beautiful little pale blue dot were all busy f*cking up with our greed.
Or we could just leave the status quo, because it really seems to be working out well for the 0.1%.
It seems odd that so many lives are being lost now, have been lost in the past and will continue to be wasted due to the selfish actions by ALL sides involved in this land grabbing exercise and your all arguing about which "side" is in the right.
Some of you should put the keysword down and get outside once in a while. It's a beautiful little pale blue dot were all busy f*cking up with our greed.
Or we could just leave the status quo, because it really seems to be working out well for the 0.1%.
Edited by Firebox7 on Friday 20th February 00:22
Edited by Firebox7 on Friday 20th February 00:23
Firebox7 said:
Sorry to interrupt the handbag swinging gents (?) but why such a derogatory wielding of "progressive" all of a sudden? Isn't the idea that we learn from history, advance our thinking, and move forward in a mutually beneficial manner? If fact I'm certain that some very intelligent people over the past few centuries figured out that it's how we evolved past bashing each other over the head with clubs...
It seems odd that so many lives are being lost now, have been lost in the past and will continue to be wasted due to the selfish actions by ALL sides involved in this land grabbing exercise and your all arguing about which "side" is in the right.
Some of you should put the keysword down and get outside once in a while. It's a beautiful little pale blue dot were all busy f*cking up with our greed.
Or we could just leave the status quo, because it really seems to be working out well for the 0.1%.
Typical Progressive thinking, like Karl Marx himself. It seems odd that so many lives are being lost now, have been lost in the past and will continue to be wasted due to the selfish actions by ALL sides involved in this land grabbing exercise and your all arguing about which "side" is in the right.
Some of you should put the keysword down and get outside once in a while. It's a beautiful little pale blue dot were all busy f*cking up with our greed.
Or we could just leave the status quo, because it really seems to be working out well for the 0.1%.
At no point did you mention 'freedom' and/or 'freedom to chose'. Why is that? Why do we need to move forward in a mutually beneficial way when we're all different? Or do we all move forward in a mutually beneficial way which happens to be beneficial to your line of thinking?
Lives are being lost because, believe it or not, that is how things are decided. Someone wants something, someone doesn't want that someone to have it. They talk, it goes nowhere. They protest, it goes nowhere. They fight = decision made. Every land border you see is mostly the direct result of people dying.
Progressives live in fantasy land.
Chest Rockwell said:
If he were unstable he would have been toppled by now. He has huge public support in Russia, something which the EU and NATO has handed to him on a plate.
The key here is the 'culture'. The further east you go, the tougher the culture is - something which Progressives in this country refuse to understand. Actions speak louder than words, Putin is an action guy - you can hear that when he literally tells our Socialist EU idiots to F-off at those conferences.
Nuclear warfare in this world is tailored towards 'use them or lose them' after that any target is fair game. He doesn't have an interest in Nuclear War or full on invasion, he's fighting in the Ukraine by proxy. Fighting by proxy is perfectly acceptable for the US and UK to carry out? But not Russia? Funny that?
What is unstable behaviour, is the baiting and expansionist agenda by NATO and the EU along with shat like how Putin will invade Estonia etc. It's utter-bollacks.
But lets put this in perspective: how many countries has the EU and NATO invaded/destabilised since 2000 versus how many countries has Russia invaded and/or destabilised since 2000?
bang on the money. the only concern i have in all of this is not putin,it is the anti russian rhetoric coming from the west. my take is we stay out of any conflict in that region as they have all been quite capable of sorting out themselves for a while now.The key here is the 'culture'. The further east you go, the tougher the culture is - something which Progressives in this country refuse to understand. Actions speak louder than words, Putin is an action guy - you can hear that when he literally tells our Socialist EU idiots to F-off at those conferences.
Nuclear warfare in this world is tailored towards 'use them or lose them' after that any target is fair game. He doesn't have an interest in Nuclear War or full on invasion, he's fighting in the Ukraine by proxy. Fighting by proxy is perfectly acceptable for the US and UK to carry out? But not Russia? Funny that?
What is unstable behaviour, is the baiting and expansionist agenda by NATO and the EU along with shat like how Putin will invade Estonia etc. It's utter-bollacks.
But lets put this in perspective: how many countries has the EU and NATO invaded/destabilised since 2000 versus how many countries has Russia invaded and/or destabilised since 2000?
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Thursday 19th February 23:41
it might not be the way it is done in the west,but the simple fact is in that region "might is right" . where the west has interfered in regions that operate on that principle in the last couple of decades we have left a complete shambles behind which is now coming back to bite us in the arse,maybe it is time to learn a lesson from that.
wc98 said:
bang on the money. the only concern i have in all of this is not putin,it is the anti russian rhetoric coming from the west. my take is we stay out of any conflict in that region as they have all been quite capable of sorting out themselves for a while now.
it might not be the way it is done in the west,but the simple fact is in that region "might is right" . where the west has interfered in regions that operate on that principle in the last couple of decades we have left a complete shambles behind which is now coming back to bite us in the arse,maybe it is time to learn a lesson from that.
Note how during the 'good times' (when Blair and Brown abolished Boom and Bust along with Snow and Ice) we hardly heard anything about Russia? Now that Greece is obviously going to bust the Progressive EU Project right down the middle, along with our house price inflation fuelled FUBAR'd economy plus Oil prices going down the pan (meaning the Saudis may soon be unable to prop up our welfare state) that all we hear is RUSSIA and PUTIN? Add to that the Westminster paedo scandal, the rise of a libertarian party which is taking votes away from CONservatives and LIEbour along with the obvious reality that our economy is going to implode...well there is whole lot of bad news for Cameron and Clegg to cover up. And not to mention the end of US money printing...the good times are ahead...LOLit might not be the way it is done in the west,but the simple fact is in that region "might is right" . where the west has interfered in regions that operate on that principle in the last couple of decades we have left a complete shambles behind which is now coming back to bite us in the arse,maybe it is time to learn a lesson from that.
Bear in mind that the simple reason Hitler opted for war was because the German economy was on the verge of crash, one bigger than the Weimar Republic experienced. The name of the game is to distract the masses, the political class and media class colluding to literally pull the wool over our eyes. Remember, they are people who have literally never had a 'job' in their lives. All they do is talk s
t, write st yet make nothing of any tangible benefit.Funny how African dictators are treating their people like shat yet we're not concerned with them, just bad old Putin. In fact, we're so f
king stupid that we're crying out for Ebola to come to the UK. At the same time, the Progressives are screaming "Crisis in the NHS" but meanwhile "oh...we're sending some NHS people to help with Ebola, but don't worry, if one gets infected we'll bring 'em back to the UK". So...we have a "Crisis in the NHS" but we can afford to send over some drones to catch Ebola and bring the virus back into the country? Yet most people on this thread believe the shat spouted about Putin?? We're f
ked! Chest Rockwell said:
I can't believe that the press are now reporting Russian planes or "Russian built planes" flying in what is International Airspace? It's freakin ridiculous. Sky and the Beeb today "Russian plane flies close to the coast of Cornwall"...WTF? It was in International Airspace, how can International Airspace be 'close' to the coast of Cornwall FFS?
It's got nothing to do with them using airspace, international or otherwise; it's about flying around congested airspace without their bloody transponders on, creating a load of unnecessary risk for anyone unfortunate to be in the air near them. It's the ridiculous act of a petulant tyrant.Nice to see we have gained a replacement for XJflyer, I missed him really.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 20th February 06:12
cardigankid said:
I would like to believe that Putin has sufficient common sense to know where to draw the line. I deeply mistrust the way this is being built up as another Hitler who sooner or later has to be confronted. The way in which the Europeans are being egged on by the Americans is deeply sinister. In particular I have no intention that members of my family get drawn into a major war against Russia. I do not believe what we are being told.
The line imho would be an extension of this into the Baltic States. That would be a deeply dangerous situation.
Agreed with the last comment and don't believe we will see it happen as the circumstances are very different.The line imho would be an extension of this into the Baltic States. That would be a deeply dangerous situation.
There are many areas of conflict further east, most frozen some hot, what I find very disturbing is the way the west feels determined most of the time to simplify the situation into "good" guys vs "bad".
To take a different example let us look at the Serbs in Croatia, who had been there since the 16th century. Ethnically cleansed by the "good" guys, armed and trained by the west, who in many cases were the ideological descendants of those who had slaughtered 340,000 Serbs during WW2.
Why exactly are we so determined to demonise Russia in the first place?. The only war we have fought in over two centuries is one where we attacked them to preserve an oppressive Ottoman empire. Perhaps the British media at the time were busy telling their readers how "good" the Ottomans were.
J4CKO said:
Chest Rockwell said:
Rovinghawk said:
I think he's a dangerous idiot but think that bombers near our coast need to be taken seriously enough that we give the typhoons a little trip.
During he Soviet days, Soviet fighters used to fly right up to the very limit of NATO country's airspace and then break off at the last minute, just after NATO fighters had been scrambled. Never made the news.Russian bombers or 'Russian built planes' in International Airspace now make the news? The airspace is International, meaning anyone can fly through it. Means feck all, the Russians have been doing it for donkey's just like everyone else.
The planes buzzing us has been going on for decades, dont the Americans do the same with B52's in a constant rota ?
Edited by J4CKO on Thursday 19th February 23:28
Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
Quantum,
A couple of questions for you if I may.
If say you were in opposition to the former president Yanukovych and there was evidence he had stolen a few quid how would you handle it?
Moving forward, why was it that a fair number of his own party members as well as those from other opposing party's wanted him out on that fateful day?
Or do you think this was all a stitch up?
Phil
A couple of questions for you if I may.
If say you were in opposition to the former president Yanukovych and there was evidence he had stolen a few quid how would you handle it?
Moving forward, why was it that a fair number of his own party members as well as those from other opposing party's wanted him out on that fateful day?
Or do you think this was all a stitch up?
Phil
MarshPhantom said:
Seems like "we" are far more keen to go to war than Putin ever has been, there's some dangerous BS being spouted.
Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
Of course Putin doesn't want to go to war - he wants to get on with rebuilding the empire without going to war.Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
IroningMan said:
MarshPhantom said:
Seems like "we" are far more keen to go to war than Putin ever has been, there's some dangerous BS being spouted.
Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
Of course Putin doesn't want to go to war - he wants to get on with rebuilding the empire without going to war.Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
So, serious question.
The moneymen of Russia must be plotting to get rid of Putin soon, he's jeopardising their wealth. The moguls have never had it so good, do they really want Putin’s ambitions to get in the way of their freedom, London houses, football clubs etc?
Will Putin be asked, forced, to leave?
The moneymen of Russia must be plotting to get rid of Putin soon, he's jeopardising their wealth. The moguls have never had it so good, do they really want Putin’s ambitions to get in the way of their freedom, London houses, football clubs etc?
Will Putin be asked, forced, to leave?
Transmitter Man said:
Quantum,
A couple of questions for you if I may.
If say you were in opposition to the former president Yanukovych and there was evidence he had stolen a few quid how would you handle it?
Moving forward, why was it that a fair number of his own party members as well as those from other opposing party's wanted him out on that fateful day?
Or do you think this was all a stitch up?
Phil
Some quick questions.A couple of questions for you if I may.
If say you were in opposition to the former president Yanukovych and there was evidence he had stolen a few quid how would you handle it?
Moving forward, why was it that a fair number of his own party members as well as those from other opposing party's wanted him out on that fateful day?
Or do you think this was all a stitch up?
Phil
Would this be with or without my violent neo-nazi comrades to enforce my will? Do I have several billion with which to promote my version of democracy?
My view is it is a toxic mix of creating and funding the atmosphere which to achieve revolution, and matters getting out of control, both cock-up and conspiracy.
I have lived through a period where revolution or a peaceful transition is balanced on a knife edge, where you do not know what you will wake up to the next morning.A single spark could have tipped it into war. The shootings in Ukraine were that spark in this case. The shootings which seem to have more to them than meets the eye. Remarkably similar to the events in Venezuela a few years back.
I look at attempted or successful government change has been undertaken in the last 70 years and the similarities between Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran X2, Iraq x2, DRC, Vietnam, Brazil, Ghana Chile, Syria, Nicaragua and Cuba to name a few, is just too much of a coincidence.
The project for a new American Century spelled it out.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 20th February 10:46
Ahmed Ahmed
If Putin wanted the whole of Ukraine, he would have it now or 12 months ago, remember Crimea. Rolling tanks into Ukraine is relatively easy, it is perfect tank country with air superiority. It is so flat you can see the curvature of the earth.
I thought he was this blood thirsty crazy autistic man!
Roll the tanks in and be done with it, worked for George W Bush and ol' Tony
Blair in any case.
IroningMan said:
MarshPhantom said:
Seems like "we" are far more keen to go to war than Putin ever has been, there's some dangerous BS being spouted.
Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
Of course Putin doesn't want to go to war - he wants to get on with rebuilding the empire without going to war.Didn't help when old big gob compared him to Hitler.
I thought he was this blood thirsty crazy autistic man!
Roll the tanks in and be done with it, worked for George W Bush and ol' Tony
Blair in any case.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 20th February 10:16
hidetheelephants said:
It's got nothing to do with them using airspace, international or otherwise; it's about flying around congested airspace without their bloody transponders on, creating a load of unnecessary risk for anyone unfortunate to be in the air near them. It's the ridiculous act of a petulant tyrant.
Nice to see we have gained a replacement for XJflyer, I missed him really.
Oh don't be such a pleb, like NATO doesn't do the same? And again, they were in International Airspace...so why does it even get a mention in the news?Nice to see we have gained a replacement for XJflyer, I missed him really.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 20th February 06:12
And which elected tyrants have destabled the Middle East? Funny how when the Middle East was choc full tyrants they actually managed to keep a lid on things.
You're batting for the wrong team.
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