War with Russia
Discussion
scherzkeks said:
Of course they aren't. But you must view this in the proper light: the US and some of its proxies want war, which is why the current propaganda seems so desperate in Anglo media outlets. Most of what I've read in the big German papers, for example, has been more balanced so far. My favorite PH headline to date was the one about Putin possibly seeking to take over Eastern Europe. 
Ooh, yes! They want war SOOO badly that they're not shipping offensive arms, heavy equipment or personnel to the Ukraine. Those bellicose warmongers, it's a darn good job Vladimir is there to provide peace ballistically via BM21s and really heavy peace imposed by T72; any remaining peace provided by thousands of impressed russian conscripts is entirely incidental.scherzkeks said:
Of course they aren't. But you must view this in the proper light: the US and some of its proxies want war, which is why the current propaganda seems so desperate in Anglo media outlets. Most of what I've read in the big German papers, for example, has been more balanced so far. My favorite PH headline to date was the one about Putin possibly seeking to take over Eastern Europe.
Yes your right no stirring at all by the Russian media 
Is fascist America ready for total war against Russia and China?Article from a Russian now living in the USA about Russian TV. 'Out of My Mouth Comes Unimpeachable Manly Truth'
Edited by Scett on Thursday 26th February 17:59
hidetheelephants said:
Ooh, yes! They want war SOOO badly that they're not shipping offensive arms, heavy equipment or personnel to the Ukraine. Those bellicose warmongers, it's a darn good job Vladimir is there to provide peace ballistically via BM21s and really heavy peace imposed by T72; any remaining peace provided by thousands of impressed russian conscripts is entirely incidental.
If they really want war then slow escalation is putting them on the back foot vs a sudden attack and push.They don't want all out war, both sides are trying to expand with as little possibility of actual war as possible.
Mr Whippy said:
If they really want war then slow escalation is putting them on the back foot vs a sudden attack and push.
They don't want all out war, both sides are trying to expand with as little possibility of actual war as possible.
Slow escalation is the only possible path for the US to achieve its objectives in the current scenario. The Russians have not "expanded" anywhere in this conflict. They don't want all out war, both sides are trying to expand with as little possibility of actual war as possible.
scherzkeks said:
Slow escalation is the only possible path for the US to achieve its objectives in the current scenario. The Russians have not "expanded" anywhere in this conflict.
Have you just come straight from an early morning vodka-tasting or something...?Can I just remind you off the Ukrainian independence vote in 1991, where Ukrainians overwhelmingly voted to get away from mother Russia and it's ways. And can I remind you also that the bulge of land at the southern end of Ukraine actually came as part of that deal and that it is now in the hands of a certain Russian expansionist who goes by the name of Vladimir Putin.
The same Vladimir Putin that said he didn't have any troops in Crimea. The same VP that agreed to honour Ukraine's international boarders, yet is now pouring troops and artillery (that according to him don't exist) over that same boarder in his quest to establish a land link to his new Crimean real estate.
All carried out, of course, on the premise of protecting local 'Fatherland' loving (yes, he still uses that communist phrase when he refers to Russia) Russian speakers from the evil westward leaning Ukrainian Army, who are themselves actually just trying to secure their own internationally agreed boarder - from Putin.
That's a bit like the UK deciding to invade Hong Kong and India on the premise that there are still some people living there who speak English and would much prefer to live under British rule. Those days are long gone - but not in the mind of VP.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/19/vladimir-p...
Cobnapint said:
scherzkeks said:
Slow escalation is the only possible path for the US to achieve its objectives in the current scenario. The Russians have not "expanded" anywhere in this conflict.
Have you just come straight from an early morning vodka-tasting or something...?Can I just remind you off the Ukrainian independence vote in 1991, where Ukrainians overwhelmingly voted to get away from mother Russia and it's ways. And can I remind you also that the bulge of land at the southern end of Ukraine actually came as part of that deal and that it is now in the hands of a certain Russian expansionist who goes by the name of Vladimir Putin.
The same Vladimir Putin that said he didn't have any troops in Crimea. The same VP that agreed to honour Ukraine's international boarders, yet is now pouring troops and artillery (that according to him don't exist) over that same boarder in his quest to establish a land link to his new Crimean real estate.
All carried out, of course, on the premise of protecting local 'Fatherland' loving (yes, he still uses that communist phrase when he refers to Russia) Russian speakers from the evil westward leaning Ukrainian Army, who are themselves actually just trying to secure their own internationally agreed boarder - from Putin.
That's a bit like the UK deciding to invade Hong Kong and India on the premise that there are still some people living there who speak English and would much prefer to live under British rule. Those days are long gone - but not in the mind of VP.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/19/vladimir-p...
The suggestion was that they were sort of on the fence with their loyalties until now, which was squarely in the Russian camp because the Ukrainian army had shelled their houses.
I felt rather sorry for them. They are just more pawns in Putin's land-grab. He on the other hand has forced the innocent civilian population into his corner by provocation & the other typical Soviet era tactics.
I also heard on R4's From Our Own Correspondent that pictures of Stalin are being waved around in Russia in acts of support for the action of Russia in the Ukraine.
It's so ironic that arguably the only villain bigger than Hitler is being lauded in such a way.
Smiler. said:
Cobnapint said:
scherzkeks said:
Slow escalation is the only possible path for the US to achieve its objectives in the current scenario. The Russians have not "expanded" anywhere in this conflict.
Have you just come straight from an early morning vodka-tasting or something...?Can I just remind you off the Ukrainian independence vote in 1991, where Ukrainians overwhelmingly voted to get away from mother Russia and it's ways. And can I remind you also that the bulge of land at the southern end of Ukraine actually came as part of that deal and that it is now in the hands of a certain Russian expansionist who goes by the name of Vladimir Putin.
The same Vladimir Putin that said he didn't have any troops in Crimea. The same VP that agreed to honour Ukraine's international boarders, yet is now pouring troops and artillery (that according to him don't exist) over that same boarder in his quest to establish a land link to his new Crimean real estate.
All carried out, of course, on the premise of protecting local 'Fatherland' loving (yes, he still uses that communist phrase when he refers to Russia) Russian speakers from the evil westward leaning Ukrainian Army, who are themselves actually just trying to secure their own internationally agreed boarder - from Putin.
That's a bit like the UK deciding to invade Hong Kong and India on the premise that there are still some people living there who speak English and would much prefer to live under British rule. Those days are long gone - but not in the mind of VP.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/19/vladimir-p...
The suggestion was that they were sort of on the fence with their loyalties until now, which was squarely in the Russian camp because the Ukrainian army had shelled their houses.
I felt rather sorry for them. They are just more pawns in Putin's land-grab. He on the other hand has forced the innocent civilian population into his corner by provocation & the other typical Soviet era tactics.
I also heard on R4's From Our Own Correspondent that pictures of Stalin are being waved around in Russia in acts of support for the action of Russia in the Ukraine.
It's so ironic that arguably the only villain bigger than Hitler is being lauded in such a way.
And Russian TV channels, or the 'Putin Show' as it is sometimes referred to, now openly talks about nuclear war like our press talk about interest rates.
State controlled Russian TV channels are systematically convincing the Russian public that the US is about to rock up to Ukraine's boarder with Russia, and that nuclear conflict is a real possibility.
Make no mistake - Putin has KGB blood in his veins, he thinks the cold war is still on, and his paranoia knows no bounds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u...
2013BRM said:
hate to say it but I can't see a way out of this, Putin has never/will never capitulate and NATO have squared up
Russia's economy continues to spiral downwards as no one wants to do business with them.Russia is no longer able to pay for its armed forces or pensions.
Putins position becomes less and less tenable.
.
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<Stuff happens>
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China takes most of eastern Siberia.
BBC broadcasts people in Moscow pulling down statues of Putin and hitting them with shoes.
Oh and if Putin is out, and then some idealist socialists take control like once before, things will turn out great! 
This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
scherzkeks said:
Slow escalation is the only possible path for the US to achieve its objectives in the current scenario. The Russians have not "expanded" anywhere in this conflict.
I was suggesting that wrt Russia.Others allude to Russia being aggressive and warmongering and absolutely wanting war. So why mess around? They'd have been better going all in a year ago and taking all the East European ex Soviet Union territories before Nato could respond conventionally.
Yes, conversely, for the Usa to do their banana republic thing, slow subversive is the only route.
Now the USA has screwed up Ukraind it's back to Syria, Iraq and no doubt Libya, those other recent success stories of Western intervention
Mr Whippy said:
Oh and if Putin is out, and then some idealist socialists take control like once before, things will turn out great!
This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
Right better go and get the footings back in for that wall then...This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Oh and if Putin is out, and then some idealist socialists take control like once before, things will turn out great!
This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, I find them hilarious because they are so far removed from the things people actually should be worried about and I do not think WW3 is on the cards.This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
That being said the last World War pulled the US out of the depression.
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