War with Russia
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
Oh and if Putin is out, and then some idealist socialists take control like once before, things will turn out great! 
This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
Why is the choice Putin or Rebel nuclear anialation? Surly the most likely outcome is Russia's existing democratic structure kicks in, and they get politicians who are actually accountable to the people? This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
AngryPartsBloke said:
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, I find them hilarious because they are so far removed from the things people actually should be worried about and I do not think WW3 is on the cards.
That being said the last World War pulled the US out of the depression.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories either. But I'm also not a subscriber to the idea wars just 'start' by accident through unconsidered posturing and escalation.That being said the last World War pulled the US out of the depression.
ellroy said:
Former deputy PM Netsmov, an opposition politician, has been sot dead in Moscow.
Mr Putin's mates do we think?
I wouldn't be surprised.Mr Putin's mates do we think?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31669061
there are two versions and Putin has the problem with both of them
1st : his people are that stupid to kill the opposition leader in front of the Kremlin
2nd(much more probable) : foreign agents are killing people in front of the Kremlin and setting up the false flag
either way - he has the problem
1st : his people are that stupid to kill the opposition leader in front of the Kremlin
2nd(much more probable) : foreign agents are killing people in front of the Kremlin and setting up the false flag
either way - he has the problem
ellroy said:
Former deputy PM Netsmov, an opposition politician, has been sot dead in Moscow.
Mr Putin's mates do we think?
He was opposed to Russia's War with the Ukraine and was about to lead a large protest against it.Mr Putin's mates do we think?
He recently said "he feared Mr Putin would have him killed because of his opposition to the war in Ukraine."
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31669061
Mr Whippy said:
Oh and if Putin is out, and then some idealist socialists take control like once before, things will turn out great!
This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
Dave,This idea that the West can just shove a puppet dictator into power there once Putin is out, and not cause political fractures like we've seen in Ukraine in the last year is just bonkers!
Imagine rebels with control of nuclear weapons... Nice.
Anyone would think the West *wants* ww3!
Dave
The Ukrainian people had a democratic vote.
The Petro Poroshenko Bloc won the most seats (132 seats) in the election (because of its lead in single-seat constituencies) with the People's Front (who gained more votes than the Petro Poroshenko Bloc on the nationwide party list[22]) coming second with 82 seats.[23] 94 independent candidates won a seat in single-seat constituencies, Self Reliance won 33 seats, the Opposition Bloc 29 seats, the Radical Party 22 seats, Fatherland 19 seats, Svoboda 6 seats, Right Sector 1 seat, Strong Ukraine 1 seat, Volia 1 seat, and Zastup also 1 seat.[23] For the first time since Ukraine's 1991 independence Communists have no parliamentary representation.[23][24] The official voter turnout was set at 52.42%.[25] 57% was the turnout in the previous 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election.[26]
Chocolate man won.
Where were you?
Please note Svoboda only won 6 seats so please don't go down the facist, nazi rant route.
Phil
Martin4x4 said:
ellroy said:
Former deputy PM Netsmov, an opposition politician, has been sot dead in Moscow.
Mr Putin's mates do we think?
He was opposed to Russia's War with the Ukraine and was about to lead a large protest against it.Mr Putin's mates do we think?
He recently said "he feared Mr Putin would have him killed because of his opposition to the war in Ukraine."
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31669061
hmmm
AreOut said:
there are two versions and Putin has the problem with both of them
1st : his people are that stupid to kill the opposition leader in front of the Kremlin
2nd(much more probable) : homosexual foreign agents are killing people in front of the Kremlin and setting up the false flag
either way - he has the problem
EFA1st : his people are that stupid to kill the opposition leader in front of the Kremlin
2nd(much more probable) : homosexual foreign agents are killing people in front of the Kremlin and setting up the false flag
either way - he has the problem
So Putin continues to take Russia further back towards the early days of the cold war, if not beyond.
Russian society must surely be starting to wake up and smell the vodka. There have been that many allegations of election fraud, organised crime connections, and opposition leader 'accidents' during Putin's reign that something has to give.
They're already in a North Korea type situation where anybody who stands as a critic of Putin (Pussy Riot, Litvenenko, et al) can expect a visit from the Police, or worse, some of his old FSB mates who don't intend taking you back as a prisoner.
He's about as good of an example of a blatantly corrupt dictator as you get.
Russian society must surely be starting to wake up and smell the vodka. There have been that many allegations of election fraud, organised crime connections, and opposition leader 'accidents' during Putin's reign that something has to give.
They're already in a North Korea type situation where anybody who stands as a critic of Putin (Pussy Riot, Litvenenko, et al) can expect a visit from the Police, or worse, some of his old FSB mates who don't intend taking you back as a prisoner.
He's about as good of an example of a blatantly corrupt dictator as you get.
Transmitter Man said:
Dave,
The Ukrainian people had a democratic vote.
The Petro Poroshenko Bloc won the most seats (132 seats) in the election (because of its lead in single-seat constituencies) with the People's Front (who gained more votes than the Petro Poroshenko Bloc on the nationwide party list[22]) coming second with 82 seats.[23] 94 independent candidates won a seat in single-seat constituencies, Self Reliance won 33 seats, the Opposition Bloc 29 seats, the Radical Party 22 seats, Fatherland 19 seats, Svoboda 6 seats, Right Sector 1 seat, Strong Ukraine 1 seat, Volia 1 seat, and Zastup also 1 seat.[23] For the first time since Ukraine's 1991 independence Communists have no parliamentary representation.[23][24] The official voter turnout was set at 52.42%.[25] 57% was the turnout in the previous 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election.[26]
Chocolate man won.
Where were you?
Please note Svoboda only won 6 seats so please don't go down the facist, nazi rant route.
Phil
Eh?The Ukrainian people had a democratic vote.
The Petro Poroshenko Bloc won the most seats (132 seats) in the election (because of its lead in single-seat constituencies) with the People's Front (who gained more votes than the Petro Poroshenko Bloc on the nationwide party list[22]) coming second with 82 seats.[23] 94 independent candidates won a seat in single-seat constituencies, Self Reliance won 33 seats, the Opposition Bloc 29 seats, the Radical Party 22 seats, Fatherland 19 seats, Svoboda 6 seats, Right Sector 1 seat, Strong Ukraine 1 seat, Volia 1 seat, and Zastup also 1 seat.[23] For the first time since Ukraine's 1991 independence Communists have no parliamentary representation.[23][24] The official voter turnout was set at 52.42%.[25] 57% was the turnout in the previous 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election.[26]
Chocolate man won.
Where were you?
Please note Svoboda only won 6 seats so please don't go down the facist, nazi rant route.
Phil
Ukraine had democratic elections.
They now have civil war.
Perfect example that ousting Putin democratically via Western pressures may fracture Russia into vying capitalist/socialist leaning factions, among many others.
Which is the point I'm making.
Pushing Putin out of leadership may result in a worse Russia.
But hey that is the Western way.
Make any potential opponent or defiant government a shambles so they can be manipulated. Just look at every country the USA has been involved in for the last 40 years.
Fine if that is what they like doing, but Russia has nuclear weapons. Potentially having them fall into the control of rebels isn't ideal. Especially if that then means the USA has to go in to protect the world from rebels with nuclear weapons.
Talk about false flags. It's playing out just like a shallow as a puddle Western spy thriller!
Cobnapint said:
So Putin continues to take Russia further back towards the early days of the cold war, if not beyond.
Russian society must surely be starting to wake up and smell the vodka. There have been that many allegations of election fraud, organised crime connections, and opposition leader 'accidents' during Putin's reign that something has to give.
They're already in a North Korea type situation where anybody who stands as a critic of Putin (Pussy Riot, Litvenenko, et al) can expect a visit from the Police, or worse, some of his old FSB mates who don't intend taking you back as a prisoner.
He's about as good of an example of a blatantly corrupt dictator as you get.
Another problem is mass alcoholism especially within men with expected lifespans of 55yeaes old its in dire straights. Russian society must surely be starting to wake up and smell the vodka. There have been that many allegations of election fraud, organised crime connections, and opposition leader 'accidents' during Putin's reign that something has to give.
They're already in a North Korea type situation where anybody who stands as a critic of Putin (Pussy Riot, Litvenenko, et al) can expect a visit from the Police, or worse, some of his old FSB mates who don't intend taking you back as a prisoner.
He's about as good of an example of a blatantly corrupt dictator as you get.
A country full of resources, amazing countryside and wildlife and vast areas totally unexplored.
Football World Cup likely to be ignored by most of the West.
A real shame - and to top it all off military kit that is very old relative to the West
Welshbeef said:
A real shame - and to top it all off military kit that is very old relative to the West
Their old Bears may as well be B2s given their ability to penetrate airspace.Being old is irrelevant to a certain extent, especially since a chunk of their kit will have top notch weapons systems and avionics to deploy them.
Cripes, most NATO stuff has stood still too.
Just look at our current aircraft carrier capability. Helicopters oooo.
No more Nimrod. A handful of Typhoon and severely reduced CAP coverage.
The West is hardly in tip top shape either. Many Americans are fatties paying s chunk of GDP to stay alive after 55 years old, they're in terrible debt, and their military isn't exactly top notch either... bar the stuff they bought at the end of the Cold War... F22 and B2... Which are kinda flawed against modern IR weapons and radar too.
Hmmmm
Quite an impressive list Russia has been building. Alternatively, they could all have been killed by "Western Agents"
April 2003 - Liberal politician Sergey Yushenkov assassinated near his Moscow home
July 2003 - Investigative journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin died after 16-day mysterious illness
July 2004 - Forbes magazine Russian editor Paul Klebnikov shot from moving car on Moscow street, died later in hospital
October 2006 - Investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya shot dead outside her Moscow apartment
November 2006 - Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko died nearly three weeks after drinking tea laced with polonium in London hotel
March 2013 - Boris Berezovsky, former Kremlin power broker turned Putin critic, found dead in his UK home
February 2015 - Boris Nemtsov , leading Russian opposition politician, shot dead in front of the Kremlin
April 2003 - Liberal politician Sergey Yushenkov assassinated near his Moscow home
July 2003 - Investigative journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin died after 16-day mysterious illness
July 2004 - Forbes magazine Russian editor Paul Klebnikov shot from moving car on Moscow street, died later in hospital
October 2006 - Investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya shot dead outside her Moscow apartment
November 2006 - Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko died nearly three weeks after drinking tea laced with polonium in London hotel
March 2013 - Boris Berezovsky, former Kremlin power broker turned Putin critic, found dead in his UK home
February 2015 - Boris Nemtsov , leading Russian opposition politician, shot dead in front of the Kremlin
skyrover said:
Quite an impressive list Russia has been building. Alternatively, they could all have been killed by "Western Agents"
April 2003 - Liberal politician Sergey Yushenkov assassinated near his Moscow home
July 2003 - Investigative journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin died after 16-day mysterious illness
July 2004 - Forbes magazine Russian editor Paul Klebnikov shot from moving car on Moscow street, died later in hospital
October 2006 - Investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya shot dead outside her Moscow apartment
November 2006 - Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko died nearly three weeks after drinking tea laced with polonium in London hotel
March 2013 - Boris Berezovsky, former Kremlin power broker turned Putin critic, found dead in his UK home
February 2015 - Boris Nemtsov , leading Russian opposition politician, shot dead in front of the Kremlin
Alternatively, the depths of what may underlay all this may well be beyond simple 'slap in the face' obviousness that an armchair Google investigation may uncover.April 2003 - Liberal politician Sergey Yushenkov assassinated near his Moscow home
July 2003 - Investigative journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin died after 16-day mysterious illness
July 2004 - Forbes magazine Russian editor Paul Klebnikov shot from moving car on Moscow street, died later in hospital
October 2006 - Investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya shot dead outside her Moscow apartment
November 2006 - Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko died nearly three weeks after drinking tea laced with polonium in London hotel
March 2013 - Boris Berezovsky, former Kremlin power broker turned Putin critic, found dead in his UK home
February 2015 - Boris Nemtsov , leading Russian opposition politician, shot dead in front of the Kremlin
Undermining the ability of the West/NATO or Russia/Putin to be up to all kinds of unknown shenanigans in the background will only allow you to draw conclusions slapped into your brain by the main stream media.
Putin bad, Cameron and Obama good. If only the world were so black and white!
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Alternatively, the depths of what may underlay all this may well be beyond simple 'slap in the face' obviousness that an armchair Google investigation may uncover.
Undermining the ability of the West/NATO or Russia/Putin to be up to all kinds of unknown shenanigans in the background will only allow you to draw conclusions slapped into your brain by the main stream media.
Putin bad, Cameron and Obama good. If only the world were so black and white!
Dave
Well... alive or dead is fairly black and white to me.Undermining the ability of the West/NATO or Russia/Putin to be up to all kinds of unknown shenanigans in the background will only allow you to draw conclusions slapped into your brain by the main stream media.
Putin bad, Cameron and Obama good. If only the world were so black and white!
Dave
I agree there is no truth in news, so I await your credible explanation
skyrover said:
Well... alive or dead is fairly black and white to me.
I agree there is no truth in news, so I await your credible explanation
My best guess would probably still be miles from a truth we may never know any way.I agree there is no truth in news, so I await your credible explanation
It's pointless to speculate.
All I know for sure is that this isn't any any 'normal' persons interests and they should resist any escalation that our leaders suggest is required in response to false flag events... Like this recent killing.
I know for certain, Obama, Cameron and Putin won't be shedding any blood for this, but them and their friends will be making some money out of it I'm sure!
Mr Whippy said:
Alternatively, the depths of what may underlay all this may well be beyond simple 'slap in the face' obviousness that an armchair Google investigation may uncover.
Undermining the ability of the West/NATO or Russia/Putin to be up to all kinds of unknown shenanigans in the background will only allow you to draw conclusions slapped into your brain by the main stream media.
Putin bad, Cameron and Obama good. If only the world were so black and white!
Dave
Such as?Undermining the ability of the West/NATO or Russia/Putin to be up to all kinds of unknown shenanigans in the background will only allow you to draw conclusions slapped into your brain by the main stream media.
Putin bad, Cameron and Obama good. If only the world were so black and white!
Dave
Phil
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