War with Russia

[scherzkeks]

Transmitter Man said:

I stopped reading when it called the current Ukraine government 'ultra right wing'.

You and I know it clearly is not.



Phil

A sizeable portion is far-right, including Andriy Parubiy (Secretary of the National Security and National Defense Committee), Dmytro Yarosh (Deputy Secretary of the RNBOU), Oleh Makhnitsky (Prosecutor General of Ukraine), and cabinet members Tetyana Chernovol, Dmytro Bulatov, and Yegor Sobolev. That these individuals have any power at all is rather embarassing.

I suspect it is rather payback, since Svoboda played a key role in overthrowing a democratically elected government; something that, mind you, stands in direct contradiction to their American backer's formal commitment to democracy. It would be ironic if it weren't so commonplace.

This somewhat specious source gets it about half right -- making it a more worthwhile a read than virtually anything the warmonger sect has posted here.

[Transmitter Man]

isee said:

True, but if you carried on reading, you would have gotten to the point I was trying to make. Unless of course it's not true?

If it tell one porky there's a pretty good chance they'll tell you more.

So, it's not true.

Phil

[skyrover]

scherzkeks said:

A sizeable portion is far-right, including Andriy Parubiy (Secretary of the National Security and National Defense Committee),

He's gone... Poroshenko kicked him out over a year ago

scherzkeks said:

Dmytro Yarosh (Deputy Secretary of the RNBOU),

Hates the EU, NATO and the USA... the polar opposite of your western backed coup freedom fighter nonsense

scherzkeks said:

Oleh Makhnitsky (Prosecutor General of Ukraine),

Also gone... Poroshenko kicked him out about a year ago as well

scherzkeks said:

Tetyana Chernovol,

Gone for over a year...

scherzkeks said:

Dmytro Bulatov,

No longer involved in government

scherzkeks said:

and Yegor Sobolev.

An extremist?


Strangest overthrow of a "democratically elected" government I have ever seen where the ruling party stays in power and continues to govern until the next election.

[Liokault]

skyrover said:

Strangest overthrow of a "democratically elected" government I have ever seen where the ruling party stays in power and continues to govern until the next election.

Stranger than calling the people who didn't invade war mongering, whilst singing the praises of the invading/annexing army, who just happen to be totally undemocratic (as that appears to be today's buzz word)?

[scherzkeks]

skyrover said:

Some have left!

Thank you for Googling the latest status of some of the fascists in question.

[Transmitter Man]

skyrover said:

An extremist?


Strangest overthrow of a "democratically elected" government I have ever seen where the ruling party stays in power and continues to govern until the next election.

Sky,

There are in fact exactly six members of Ukraine's far right Svoboda party.

That, is not considered sizable.

Phil

[skyrover]

Seems like even East Ukraine's ethnic Russian's want the Kremlin out now.

Putin has managed to dissolve the East, West divide in Ukraine and unify the country like never before.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/opinion/arti...

... and those two captured Russian special forces?

Looks like the Kremlin tried to have them killed

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/18/us-ukrai...

Edited by skyrover on Wednesday 27th May 06:24

[scherzkeks]

Transmitter Man said:

Sky,

There are in fact exactly six members of Ukraine's far right Svoboda party.

That, is not considered sizable.

Phil

That they are there at all is the issue. But we know why they are there.

It all goes down the memory hole anyways. Just part of the process of building a shiny new corporatocracy.

[skyrover]

scherzkeks said:

That they are there at all is the issue. But we know why they are there.

It all goes down the memory hole anyways. Just part of the process of building a shiny new corporatocracy.

As opposed to Kleptocracy

[Transmitter Man]

scherzkeks said:

That they are there at all is the issue. But we know why they are there.

It all goes down the memory hole anyways. Just part of the process of building a shiny new corporatocracy.

Look, I feel you're making too big an issue over the current, democratically elected Ukraine government.

(Was the Duma democratically elected)

We have a UKIP MP!

Phil

[scherzkeks]

Transmitter Man said:

Look, I feel you're making too big an issue over the current, democratically elected Ukraine government.

(Was the Duma democratically elected)

We have a UKIP MP!

Phil

Not really. I have no stake in the game whatsoever, and wouldn't live there if you paid me. It's just rather enjoyable to watch some defend an act of nation-building and grab for exploitable resources as though it's an altruistic act of some sort.

And when one considers who the perpetrators had to work with to do it, the irony is too delicious not to comment on.

[skyrover]

Because the opinion of the Ukrainian people means nothing... it's all a Western plot

[scherzkeks]

Transmitter Man said:

If it tell one porky there's a pretty good chance they'll tell you more.


Phil

Indeed. Check out a Jen Psaki presser sometime. She's at her comedic best fielding questions on Ukraine, but Venezuela is up there, too.

[isee]

skyrover said:

Because the opinion of the Ukrainian people means nothing... it's all a Western plot

The opinion of Crimean people certainly means nothing in the West though

[Liokault]

isee said:

skyrover said:

Because the opinion of the Ukrainian people means nothing... it's all a Western plot

The opinion of Crimean people certainly means nothing in the West though

is that why we invaded than annexed them.......oh, wait a sec, that wasn't the west was it?

[isee]

Liokault said:

is that why we invaded than annexed them.......oh, wait a sec, that wasn't the west was it?

No, it's why you are happy to repeat a propaganda sound-bite, after they had a referendum, which though without the western observers was in my opinion no less legitimate than the way the current legitimate Ukrainian government came to power, and voted to join Russia after a 50 year hiatus.

I have said it before, I don't think Russia acted nicely by orchestating the re-unification of Crimea, but it would be doubly unfair on the will of the Crimeans to give their land back to Ukraine.

P.S. if Crimeans wanted to join the west as badly as they appear to want to join Russia and the west went for it, I'd have no problem with it, other than having to pay for yet another wave of Eastern European immigrants, who think that the streets here are paved with gold and all you need to do is cross the border to be given a bag of money or that you don't even need to integrate (ironic I know, considering I am one myself), but I digress.

Edited by isee on Wednesday 27th May 14:04

[skyrover]

Russia was going to seize Crimea whether the Yanukovych regime remained in power or not.

The Kremlin had drawn up plans as far back as the early 2000's.

[isee]

skyrover said:

Russia was going to seize Crimea whether the Yanukovych regime remained in power or not.

The Kremlin had drawn up plans as far back as the early 2000's.

Oh wow, reminds me of that old Soviet Russia joke:

Whilst searching a citizen's house, a cop finds some moonshine making equipment in the attic.
"Aha!" exclaims the cop, "we shall try you for making moonshine!"
"but I didn't make any moonshine" protests the citizen
"No, but you have the equipment!" retorts the copper.
citizen replies "In that case, try me for rape also"
"Did you rape someone?" enquires the policeman
"No, but I have the equipment"


countries make contingency plans, USA had drawn up a false flag operation as a pretext to invade Cuba for shooting down a civilian US plane, which they would have shot down themselves.
I would be surprised if UK didn't have various plans drawn up with regard to the numerous colonies past and present and will likely action some of them should the political events change in a way that justifies them.

I am also sure that Russia has plans drawn up that involve nuking the world 5 times over, should a certain chain of events take place, can I apply your logic and say that Russia was going to nuke the world regardless?

[scherzkeks]

Liokault said:

is that why we invaded than annexed them.......

I love this soundbyte. From the land that invented modern propaganda, and the tie-in to Mr. Bernays' biggest German fan makes it even greater.

It just works on so many levels.


BTW, only three dots are required by most style guides.

[Liokault]

isee said:

No, it's why you are happy to repeat a propaganda sound-bite, after they had a referendum, which though without the western observers was in my opinion no less legitimate than the way the current legitimate Ukrainian government came to power, and voted to join Russia after a 50 year hiatus.


P.S. if Crimeans wanted to join the west as badly as they appear to want to join Russia and the west went for it.

Normally, comrade, you have the election, then you get the army. If you get the army first, it indicates that it's probably not really an election.



The thing I find really funny is that if Russia had done diplomacy better, I have zero doubt that they could have peacefully taken/been given Crimea, no tanks, no stages election, no invasion by fully armed squads of Russian apparent day trippers, no massive death toll required.