War with Russia
Discussion
isee said:
Oh i see your point, it's not unreasonable, but expected right?
I maybe mistaken but I think both Russian and Ukrainian populations have been contracting since the 80s anyway?
According to the link I posted, the Russians shrank from 67.0% to 60.4% and the Ukrainians shrank from 25.8% to 24.0%.I maybe mistaken but I think both Russian and Ukrainian populations have been contracting since the 80s anyway?
scherzkeks said:
Mojocvh said:
Tsk tsk blatantly defensive moves to prevent those aggressive Ukrainians staging another Operation Barbarossa obviously....
The irony is, of course, that the Ukrainian government actually have mobilized Neo-Nazis on the battlefield. This is the thread that keeps on giving.
Or do you continue to post here for "s
ts and giggles"??Halb said:
According to the link I posted, the Russians shrank from 67.0% to 60.4% and the Ukrainians shrank from 25.8% to 24.0%.
no no I meant total number of people in general in those countries, not ethnic groups. Anyway, just ignore me, I have nothing useful to say on the matter you have raised anyway 
Mojocvh said:
You do seem to revel at the prospect of the continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals, would you care too enlighten us as to the reason behind your pathological hatred of anything or anyone who defies the current Russian dictatorship
Or do you continue to post here for "sts and giggles"??
Jesus wept, how did you manage to twist his words into the message above?Or do you continue to post here for "s
ts and giggles"??Can you give me a step by step logic of your rationale? I am curious.
isee said:
Mojocvh said:
You do seem to revel at the prospect of the continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals, would you care too enlighten us as to the reason behind your pathological hatred of anything or anyone who defies the current Russian dictatorship
Or do you continue to post here for "sts and giggles"??
Jesus wept, how did you manage to twist his words into the message above?Or do you continue to post here for "s
ts and giggles"??Can you give me a step by step logic of your rationale? I am curious.
Mojocvh said:
You do seem to revel at the prospect of the continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals, would you care too enlighten us as to the reason behind your pathological hatred of anything or anyone who defies the current Russian dictatorship ?
Not addressed to me, but I'll reply anyway . . . ?There was a political deal on the table in February/March 2014. Much of the blame for the 'continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals' (of all ethnicities and loyalties) must rest with those who didn't want a political solution - presumably because it would have looked like a diplomatic triumph for Putin, as well as recognising Russian sovereignty in Crimea - and instead encouraged the regime in Kiev to seek a military solution. Fifteen months of misery and death . . . . a 'price worth paying' to keeping Russia embroiled in a conflict that it actually doesn't want?
"current Russian dictatorship"?? As in freely elected (as of course was Yanukovych), with popularity ratings at home that Western European leaders would sell their grannies for. A popularity that is partly based on the perception that he can't be pushed around by the West, unlike his predecessors . . . . a domestic political imperative that must have been well understood in the EU and US at the time the decision was reached to make it look as if 'we' were pushing Russia around.
Octoposse said:
ot addressed to me, but I'll reply anyway . . .
There was a political deal on the table in February/March 2014. Much of the blame for the 'continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals' (of all ethnicities and loyalties) must rest with those who didn't want a political solution - presumably because it would have looked like a diplomatic triumph for Putin, as well as recognising Russian sovereignty in Crimea - and instead encouraged the regime in Kiev to seek a military solution. Fifteen months of misery and death . . . . a 'price worth paying' to keeping Russia embroiled in a conflict that it actually doesn't want?
"current Russian dictatorship"?? As in freely elected (as of course was Yanukovych), with popularity ratings at home that Western European leaders would sell their grannies for. A popularity that is partly based on the perception that he can't be pushed around by the West, unlike his predecessors . . . . a domestic political imperative that must have been well understood in the EU and US at the time the decision was reached to make it look as if 'we' were pushing Russia around.
Ah well it's perfectly clear now...were you questioning "dictatorship"?There was a political deal on the table in February/March 2014. Much of the blame for the 'continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals' (of all ethnicities and loyalties) must rest with those who didn't want a political solution - presumably because it would have looked like a diplomatic triumph for Putin, as well as recognising Russian sovereignty in Crimea - and instead encouraged the regime in Kiev to seek a military solution. Fifteen months of misery and death . . . . a 'price worth paying' to keeping Russia embroiled in a conflict that it actually doesn't want?
"current Russian dictatorship"?? As in freely elected (as of course was Yanukovych), with popularity ratings at home that Western European leaders would sell their grannies for. A popularity that is partly based on the perception that he can't be pushed around by the West, unlike his predecessors . . . . a domestic political imperative that must have been well understood in the EU and US at the time the decision was reached to make it look as if 'we' were pushing Russia around.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-3291392
"Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree to make losses of Russian troops in peacetime a secret.
The amendment bans information about the deaths of Russian forces "during special operations" in peacetime."
oh..
And of course Putin has the important stuff under control..
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/putin-backs-...
Edited by Mojocvh on Thursday 28th May 22:23
Mojocvh said:
Octoposse said:
ot addressed to me, but I'll reply anyway . . .
There was a political deal on the table in February/March 2014. Much of the blame for the 'continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals' (of all ethnicities and loyalties) must rest with those who didn't want a political solution - presumably because it would have looked like a diplomatic triumph for Putin, as well as recognising Russian sovereignty in Crimea - and instead encouraged the regime in Kiev to seek a military solution. Fifteen months of misery and death . . . . a 'price worth paying' to keeping Russia embroiled in a conflict that it actually doesn't want?
"current Russian dictatorship"?? As in freely elected (as of course was Yanukovych), with popularity ratings at home that Western European leaders would sell their grannies for. A popularity that is partly based on the perception that he can't be pushed around by the West, unlike his predecessors . . . . a domestic political imperative that must have been well understood in the EU and US at the time the decision was reached to make it look as if 'we' were pushing Russia around.
Ah well it's perfectly clear now...were you questioning "dictatorship"?There was a political deal on the table in February/March 2014. Much of the blame for the 'continued slaughter of Ukrainian nationals' (of all ethnicities and loyalties) must rest with those who didn't want a political solution - presumably because it would have looked like a diplomatic triumph for Putin, as well as recognising Russian sovereignty in Crimea - and instead encouraged the regime in Kiev to seek a military solution. Fifteen months of misery and death . . . . a 'price worth paying' to keeping Russia embroiled in a conflict that it actually doesn't want?
"current Russian dictatorship"?? As in freely elected (as of course was Yanukovych), with popularity ratings at home that Western European leaders would sell their grannies for. A popularity that is partly based on the perception that he can't be pushed around by the West, unlike his predecessors . . . . a domestic political imperative that must have been well understood in the EU and US at the time the decision was reached to make it look as if 'we' were pushing Russia around.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-3291392
"Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree to make losses of Russian troops in peacetime a secret.
The amendment bans information about the deaths of Russian forces "during special operations" in peacetime."
oh..
And of course Putin has the important stuff under control..
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/putin-backs-...
Edited by Mojocvh on Thursday 28th May 22:23
It must only be bad, when it is the Russians doing it.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
This would this be equivalent to UK troops and D notices during operations in Oman, jebel akhdar or Mirbat.
It must only be bad, when it is the Russians doing it.
The question isn't whether it is good or bad that they are doing it.It must only be bad, when it is the Russians doing it.
The question is, why are they doing it *now*?
QuantumTokoloshi said:
We know why, they have troops fighting in Ukraine.
It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
"gagging" to hear where we have been doing "it" [ooerr] for decades since Oman, really, don't be shy, let us see your sources then..It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
One of Boris Nemtsov's colleagues, Vladimir Kara-Murza, admitted to hospital with poisoning. Said to be in critical condition.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3100122/Al...
Mr Kara-Murza worked on the release of an opposition report into the presence of Russian troops in east Ukraine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3100122/Al...
Mr Kara-Murza worked on the release of an opposition report into the presence of Russian troops in east Ukraine.
Mojocvh said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
We know why, they have troops fighting in Ukraine.
It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
"gagging" to hear where we have been doing "it" [ooerr] for decades since Oman, really, don't be shy, let us see your sources then..It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
The moral high ground is hard to maintain, when everyone is playing dirty, the Russians are playing by well established rules.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 29th May 08:20
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Mojocvh said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
We know why, they have troops fighting in Ukraine.
It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
"gagging" to hear where we have been doing "it" [ooerr] for decades since Oman, really, don't be shy, let us see your sources then..It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
The moral high ground is hard to maintain, when everyone is playing dirty, the Russians are playing by well established rules.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 29th May 08:20
skyrover said:
This pertains to "war with Russia" how? Oh that's right it just supports your rationalisation: Russia=evildeltaevo16 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Mojocvh said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
We know why, they have troops fighting in Ukraine.
It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
"gagging" to hear where we have been doing "it" [ooerr] for decades since Oman, really, don't be shy, let us see your sources then..It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
The moral high ground is hard to maintain, when everyone is playing dirty, the Russians are playing by well established rules.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 29th May 08:20
You will notice the medals for the battle were announced quite sometime later because of it, as were the SAS casualties. This parallels what Putin is doing with the losses in Ukraine.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
deltaevo16 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Mojocvh said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
We know why, they have troops fighting in Ukraine.
It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
"gagging" to hear where we have been doing "it" [ooerr] for decades since Oman, really, don't be shy, let us see your sources then..It just seems the usual selective outrage, how dare they do something the UK has done for decades.
The moral high ground is hard to maintain, when everyone is playing dirty, the Russians are playing by well established rules.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 29th May 08:20
You will notice the medals for the battle were announced quite sometime later because of it, as were the SAS casualties. This parallels what Putin is doing with the losses in Ukraine.
isee said:
skyrover said:
This pertains to "war with Russia" how? Oh that's right it just supports your rationalisation: Russia=evilRussia is not evil... the actions of the Kremlin are as of late, generally murderous or despicable.
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