War with Russia

[Octoposse]

Cobnapint said:

I must have just stepped off the banana boat then, because I don't hear any reports or see anything online that suggests Russian fighter jets are having to be regularly scrambled to intercept any US long range bombers or RAF incursions into Russian 'areas of interest' - whatsoever.

I think we complained recently about Russian jets having a look at Canadian and US warships bobbing around the Black Sea just outside Russian territorial waters.

So Russian aircraft near UK airspace are provocative, and scrambling jets is entirely normal, and NATO warships near Russia are just going about their lawful business, and scrambling jets in response is provocative. Right, got it.

(I write as someone who spent most of the 1980s in Germany waiting for the Russians to come. OK, it was mainly football tournaments, swimming galas, beer, blondes and painting things green, but the overall point remains).

[Cobnapint]

Octoposse said:

Cobnapint said:

I must have just stepped off the banana boat then, because I don't hear any reports or see anything online that suggests Russian fighter jets are having to be regularly scrambled to intercept any US long range bombers or RAF incursions into Russian 'areas of interest' - whatsoever.

I think we complained recently about Russian jets having a look at Canadian and US warships bobbing around the Black Sea just outside Russian territorial waters.

So Russian aircraft near UK airspace are provocative, and scrambling jets is entirely normal, and NATO warships near Russia are just going about their lawful business, and scrambling jets in response is provocative. Right, got it.

(I write as someone who spent most of the 1980s in Germany waiting for the Russians to come. OK, it was mainly football tournaments, swimming galas, beer, blondes and painting things green, but the overall point remains).

An annual Naval exercise is one thing, regular supersonic nuclear bombers are another.

The USS Porter, along with a Dutch frigate, a Portuguese frigate, and Spanish minesweeper, were sent into Eastern European waters as a show of support to NATO allies in that area in response to your friendly neighbourhood Red Army's activities in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

So yes, off piste Russian nuclear bombers near Norwegian, British, Spanish and Portuguese airspace for no apparent reason on a regular basis ARE totally provocative. One US Navy missile destroyer and 3 barges doing what they are supposed to be doing, in an area that they are entitled to be doing it, at a time they are supposed to be doing it, is to be considered 'normal' under the circumstances.

You've got it.

Edited by Cobnapint on Saturday 20th February 15:52

[Octoposse]

Well that's a different incident - as the one I referred to involved a Canadian (I know Canada's got a hell of a coastline, but Black Sea?) warship. Which really proves the point that NATO warships bobbing around outside Russian territorial waters is pretty routine.

I can live with double standards but all this 'fighting talk' is fking ludicrous. Some of our foreign policy appears to be made by uneducated fourteen year olds high on testosterone and cider.

[Halb]

Octoposse said:

I can live with double standards but all this 'fighting talk' is fking ludicrous. Some of our foreign policy appears to be made by uneducated fourteen year olds high on testosterone and cider.

They post on PH as well?

[Cobnapint]

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

[PRTVR]

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

[Cobnapint]

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

[AreOut]

Western planes regularly skim russian airspace, nothing unusual.

[Cobnapint]

AreOut said:

Western planes regularly skim russian airspace, nothing unusual.

Do we...? Where exactly.

[Mr Whippy]

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

[AreOut]

Cobnapint said:

Do we...? Where exactly.

usually Baltics

[PRTVR]

Mr Whippy said:

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

You know that ,I know that,cobnapint knows that, but when you are trying to scare a population, it helps.

[Zod]

PRTVR said:

Mr Whippy said:

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

You know that ,I know that,cobnapint knows that, but when you are trying to scare a population, it helps.

You of course know better than the people who actually run our armed forces.

[powerstroke]

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

Yes but we might need Russia's help if germany invades Poland again !! the french won't be much help.....

[Cobnapint]

AreOut said:

Cobnapint said:

Do we...? Where exactly.

usually Baltics

The Baltics..? So that'll be 'usually' in the areas of interest of friendly nations like Sweden and Finland, and fellow NATO members Estonia, Latvia, Poland and Germany.

Let me know when we're 'usually' buzzing around off Murmansk and through the White Sea will you...?

[Mr Whippy]

Zod said:

PRTVR said:

Mr Whippy said:

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

You know that ,I know that,cobnapint knows that, but when you are trying to scare a population, it helps.

You of course know better than the people who actually run our armed forces.

A governments primary role is for defence, and we're already in the biggest global defence 'club' going, and carry a big nuclear deterrent stick too.

So are we now to believe that our government has been undermining our defence for decades because we were not a bit more integrated into the EU beurocracy?

[Zod]

Mr Whippy said:

Zod said:

PRTVR said:

Mr Whippy said:

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

You know that ,I know that,cobnapint knows that, but when you are trying to scare a population, it helps.

You of course know better than the people who actually run our armed forces.

A governments primary role is for defence, and we're already in the biggest global defence 'club' going, and carry a big nuclear deterrent stick too.

So are we now to believe that our government has been undermining our defence for decades because we were not a bit more integrated into the EU beurocracy?

OK, so you do know better.

[Halb]

Zod said:

You of course know better than the people who actually run our armed forces.

Britain is safer in the EU?

[Cobnapint]

Mr Whippy said:

Zod said:

PRTVR said:

Mr Whippy said:

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

You know that ,I know that,cobnapint knows that, but when you are trying to scare a population, it helps.

You of course know better than the people who actually run our armed forces.

A governments primary role is for defence, and we're already in the biggest global defence 'club' going, and carry a big nuclear deterrent stick too.

So are we now to believe that our government has been undermining our defence for decades because we were not a bit more integrated into the EU beurocracy?

Precisely. Can't believe all this crap about being 'safer' in the EU.

NATO has got about 0% of fk all to do with the EU.

[Mr Whippy]

Cobnapint said:

Mr Whippy said:

Zod said:

PRTVR said:

Mr Whippy said:

Cobnapint said:

PRTVR said:

Cobnapint said:

http://news.sky.com/story/1643693/raf-jets-scrambl...

They obviously didn't get enough photos on their last trip...

The cynic in me is saying be scared, be very scared, better stay in the EU for protection.

Definitely. We are much safer in the EU - CMD says so. Putin's just waiting for us to pull out so he can commence his bombing runs.

We're still in NATO in our out of the EU though.

You know that ,I know that,cobnapint knows that, but when you are trying to scare a population, it helps.

You of course know better than the people who actually run our armed forces.

A governments primary role is for defence, and we're already in the biggest global defence 'club' going, and carry a big nuclear deterrent stick too.

So are we now to believe that our government has been undermining our defence for decades because we were not a bit more integrated into the EU beurocracy?

Precisely. Can't believe all this crap about being 'safer' in the EU.

NATO has got about 0% of fk all to do with the EU.

Then they talk about policing/terrorism etc.

If we control our borders we control the people coming in to blow stuff up.

And we still have Interpol of which we're a member, which already have the capability to police terrorism across borders far vaster than those of the EU, and also the EU itself.


Russia will be no more or less of a threat if we're in the EU or out.

Given most of our risk from Russia probably comes from our association with the USA and NATO, both of which we have no plans of leaving, then we're not really changing the politics of our risk from them at least.