War with Russia
Discussion
You also have to look at it historicaly.
1. For years there has been tension between east and west that blows and hot and cold.
2. Sometimes the east pushes west - Russian invasion of Finland for example ect.
3. Historicaly the west has pushed east, more than the east west - Napoleon 1812 for example etc.
When ever the west pushes too far east the Russians get twitchy....especialy with someone as ruthless as Putin in control.
Many western polticians and the odd poster on here, not most of you
, seem to be historicaly ignorant.
1. For years there has been tension between east and west that blows and hot and cold.
2. Sometimes the east pushes west - Russian invasion of Finland for example ect.
3. Historicaly the west has pushed east, more than the east west - Napoleon 1812 for example etc.
When ever the west pushes too far east the Russians get twitchy....especialy with someone as ruthless as Putin in control.
Many western polticians and the odd poster on here, not most of you
, seem to be historicaly ignorant.frankenstein12 said:
Actually I can see Putins reasoning. The US NATO and Russia had various agreements many years back designed to avoid any form of antagonism between each other.
America broke those agreements and NATO and the US have been steadily encroaching on Russia's border with weapons and shields.
They have also been flying recon flights near and over Russia for years after Russia stopped flying its own recon flights.
As Putin says Russia spent years working to get access to WTO and working to abide by their rules. As soon as they got entry sanctions were applied nullifying the point of it all.
The US in particular but other western governments as well have for the longest time even after Russia started playing nice been making Russia out to be the bad guy every time there is an opportunity to do so.
Russia therefore is understandably suspicious of the motivations of the western governments and unwilling to trust them.
Bloody hell. Stockholm Syndrome is spreading.America broke those agreements and NATO and the US have been steadily encroaching on Russia's border with weapons and shields.
They have also been flying recon flights near and over Russia for years after Russia stopped flying its own recon flights.
As Putin says Russia spent years working to get access to WTO and working to abide by their rules. As soon as they got entry sanctions were applied nullifying the point of it all.
The US in particular but other western governments as well have for the longest time even after Russia started playing nice been making Russia out to be the bad guy every time there is an opportunity to do so.
Russia therefore is understandably suspicious of the motivations of the western governments and unwilling to trust them.
If he hadn't have acted like a love-sick ex, still holding a candle for Ukraine when it, as an independent country, started up a bit of pillow talk with the EU, then invaded and kept Crimea for himself - the sanctions wouldn't have happened.
Being a member of NATO is just being part of a defensive force, not one that lines it's tanks up, hatches closed, on the border of neighbouring non member states, waiting for the nod.
Ukraine should have been allowed to think for itself, but he told them how to think.
He's still giving silent phone calls to the independent Baltic states too. They are sick of him. Last year Russian warships tried to prevent Sweden laying a cable across the sea bed to Lithuania....
https://www.thelocal.se/20150502/russian-warships-...
He's been harassing diplomats all over the shop...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opi...
And then, of course we have the assassination of anybody that speaks out against him. Litvinenko and Nemtsov to name two.
As for the recon flights. I wouldn't believe Putin's version of events - he's an accomplished Pinocchio. And even if this is a rare occasion and he's telling the truth, the Yanks would have extended their surveillance for a reason.
Scoobman said:
You also have to look at it historicaly.
1. For years there has been tension between east and west that blows and hot and cold.
2. Sometimes the east pushes west - Russian invasion of Finland for example ect.
3. Historicaly the west has pushed east, more than the east west - Napoleon 1812 for example etc.
When ever the west pushes too far east the Russians get twitchy....especialy with someone as ruthless as Putin in control.
Many western polticians and the odd poster on here, not most of you , seem to be historicaly ignorant.
Maybe so. But past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.1. For years there has been tension between east and west that blows and hot and cold.
2. Sometimes the east pushes west - Russian invasion of Finland for example ect.
3. Historicaly the west has pushed east, more than the east west - Napoleon 1812 for example etc.
When ever the west pushes too far east the Russians get twitchy....especialy with someone as ruthless as Putin in control.
Many western polticians and the odd poster on here, not most of you
, seem to be historicaly ignorant.The best relations have ever been were during the Thatcher/Reagan/Gorbachev era, outwardly at least. It's a shame the momentum couldn't have continued, but hardliners, the KGB and the Soviet army had other ideas while Gorby was on holiday.
AreOut said:
citizensm1th said:
Wrong the cuban missile crisis and russia backed down
Syria is much closer to Russia than Cuba is, and IIRC US didn't fire on russian forces they backed down for other reasons. Namely because US backed down too and pulled their missiles from Turkey.It's called sensible politics but unfortunately HRC is not Kennedy...only hoping US generals will tell the stupid b
h they dont want to be ones to cause WW3 or senate/house will veto her decisions.stop squirming and admit you got it wrong
citizensm1th said:
it was a direct confrontation between the u.s. and russian navies something you stated did not happen
stop squirming and admit you got it wrong
it was a standoff where US navy dropped depth charges to force russian sub to surface, it's totally different from shooting on russian airplanes and if you know any other way to enforce NFZ please do let US DoD know, you might just save the worldstop squirming and admit you got it wrong
AreOut said:
citizensm1th said:
it was a direct confrontation between the u.s. and russian navies something you stated did not happen
stop squirming and admit you got it wrong
it was a standoff where US navy dropped depth charges to force russian sub to surface, it's totally different from shooting on russian airplanes and if you know any other way to enforce NFZ please do let US DoD know, you might just save the worldstop squirming and admit you got it wrong
Cobnapint said:
frankenstein12 said:
Actually I can see Putins reasoning. The US NATO and Russia had various agreements many years back designed to avoid any form of antagonism between each other.
America broke those agreements and NATO and the US have been steadily encroaching on Russia's border with weapons and shields.
They have also been flying recon flights near and over Russia for years after Russia stopped flying its own recon flights.
As Putin says Russia spent years working to get access to WTO and working to abide by their rules. As soon as they got entry sanctions were applied nullifying the point of it all.
The US in particular but other western governments as well have for the longest time even after Russia started playing nice been making Russia out to be the bad guy every time there is an opportunity to do so.
Russia therefore is understandably suspicious of the motivations of the western governments and unwilling to trust them.
Bloody hell. Stockholm Syndrome is spreading.America broke those agreements and NATO and the US have been steadily encroaching on Russia's border with weapons and shields.
They have also been flying recon flights near and over Russia for years after Russia stopped flying its own recon flights.
As Putin says Russia spent years working to get access to WTO and working to abide by their rules. As soon as they got entry sanctions were applied nullifying the point of it all.
The US in particular but other western governments as well have for the longest time even after Russia started playing nice been making Russia out to be the bad guy every time there is an opportunity to do so.
Russia therefore is understandably suspicious of the motivations of the western governments and unwilling to trust them.
If he hadn't have acted like a love-sick ex, still holding a candle for Ukraine when it, as an independent country, started up a bit of pillow talk with the EU, then invaded and kept Crimea for himself - the sanctions wouldn't have happened.
Being a member of NATO is just being part of a defensive force, not one that lines it's tanks up, hatches closed, on the border of neighbouring non member states, waiting for the nod.
Ukraine should have been allowed to think for itself, but he told them how to think.
He's still giving silent phone calls to the independent Baltic states too. They are sick of him. Last year Russian warships tried to prevent Sweden laying a cable across the sea bed to Lithuania....
https://www.thelocal.se/20150502/russian-warships-...
He's been harassing diplomats all over the shop...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opi...
And then, of course we have the assassination of anybody that speaks out against him. Litvinenko and Nemtsov to name two.
As for the recon flights. I wouldn't believe Putin's version of events - he's an accomplished Pinocchio. And even if this is a rare occasion and he's telling the truth, the Yanks would have extended their surveillance for a reason.
skyrover said:
Chaff
likely won't work against S400 missile, Russians have made it somehow recognize chaff from the plane and they tested it on their chaffs (although it doesn't work every time)the thing is anything shooting at SyAF and RAF planes will get shot down this or that way and you are in trouble because whatever you do next you are just worsening the situation
I have just seen this on Reddit, I have also seen it on RT. This surely can't be true?
https://m.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/579...
https://m.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/579...
S-400 units will not be allowed to exist and will be disabled at the first opportunity.
If it was a premeditated strike by 'allied' forces they would be gone on night 1, if it was as a result launch precipitated by other effects it would be gone on night 7, giving time for diplomacy. You can have little doubt that there are people who are watching the S400s and similar things.
If it was a premeditated strike by 'allied' forces they would be gone on night 1, if it was as a result launch precipitated by other effects it would be gone on night 7, giving time for diplomacy. You can have little doubt that there are people who are watching the S400s and similar things.
AreOut said:
yes it does, because they have antimissile defense on site and you'd have to send hundreds of missiles towards those sites to make sure and if you start doing so you'll get your ships nuked period, Russians have already said they aren't afraid of using them
Do you have any sources with regards the 'antimissile defense on site'?AreOut said:
Cobnapint said:
Ukraine should have been allowed to think for itself, but he told them how to think.
dude Russia can't allow Ukraine to become part of NATO the same way US would never allow Mexico to become part of some russian pactit's called geostrategy
Rogue86 said:
AreOut said:
yes it does, because they have antimissile defense on site and you'd have to send hundreds of missiles towards those sites to make sure and if you start doing so you'll get your ships nuked period, Russians have already said they aren't afraid of using them
Do you have any sources with regards the 'antimissile defense on site'?https://medium.com/deepconnections/prevailing-gray...
Supposedly the most sophisticated in world.
Makes bumbling Boris´s noises about no fly zones, embarrassing.
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