War with Russia

[AreOut]

I don't understand why they didn't put nuclear reactors if they already had the tech, what a mistake it showed to be.

[s2art]

AreOut said:

I don't understand why they didn't put nuclear reactors if they already had the tech, what a mistake it showed to be.

Are you talking about our new aircraft carriers?

[AreOut]

no I'm talking about russian carrier

[Cobnapint]

Collectingbrass said:

Cobnapint said:

Putin couldn't have wished for better propaganda shots than these. A Russian Aircraft Carrier steaming up the English Channel with the white cliffs of Dover in the background.

I say 'steaming'. I guess the Russian Navy doesn't do particulate filters.

http://news.sky.com/story/russian-warships-to-pass...

On Trafalgar Day too... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Day

That'll explain why it was described as a slow cruise down then, timing it for a daylight shot of blighty in the background on a memorable day.

Clearly in no rush to get to Syria.

[matsoc]

AreOut said:

I don't understand why they didn't put nuclear reactors if they already had the tech, what a mistake it showed to be.

I don't think they really wanted to compete in any way in carriers, they have only one (the 2nd sister hull was sold to China) and it has a tiny displacement, less than half of the US Nimitz class carriers.

[matsoc]

Budflicker said:

Conversely my friend at the gym who is Latvian strongly considers himself to be ethnically Russian?

Migration from Russia within Soviet Union and eastern bloc has been intense in both directions, there a lot of Russians living there. If their family comes from Russia they still considered themselves Russians even if they are born there. And apart from migration the ethnicity is still very important for them. I wouldn't define it racism because it doesn't often lead to any discrimination but the "Russian people" they intend is a population that originally lived in a relatively small area of what Russia and Soviet Uniuon become. Russia started imperialism expansion in 18th century. All the people coming from distant regions of the empire are still considered not ethnically Russian even if they live in Moscow now.

[ATG]

AreOut said:

ATG said:

... didn't either. None of the ones I know, anyway. Yes, they're fed up of their own incompetent and corrupt political class, but they didn't feel oppressed in Ukraine, they considered themselves Ukrainian, not Russian and they were nauseated by Putin's behaviour and heart-broken by what has happened. There was no justification for it at all, and it is quite without precedent; nothing like western intervention in the former Yugoslavia's civil wars, nor interventions in the M.E. or Afghanistan.

those who consider themselves Ukrainian are Ukrainians, that's a separate nation

however there are ethnic Russians in Ukraine...lot of them

I am talking about ethnic Russians, you dolt.

[Art0ir]

scherzkeks said:

Art0ir said:

scherzkeks said:

Art0ir said:

scherzkeks said:

IRC, they were busy trying to institute no-fly zones in a country they have no right to be in in order to protect some "moderate" jihadists they are supporting.

All nearly 3k of the 911 victims must be rolling in their graves.

Scherzkeks while it's nice to have a broad range of opinions and views on these forums, lets be real.

There is no good and bad guys. Only Russians looking out for Russia's best interests and the US doing likewise.

They both spy on eachother, they both interfere in elections, they both seed dissent, they both have strategic interests outside their own borders and they both have definitely done and will continue to do unsavory things because they think it will benefit them.

Ignoring the obviousness of the content contained within and the sophomoric nature of this comment, what exactly are you trying to say, and what is the connection to my comment?

Do you know who Al-Nusra is? Do you understand that the US presence on Syrian soil is illegal under international law?

My point is you post from a presumed position that Russia (and by extension you) have the moral high ground. You're as evangelical as the neocons you despise.

When the facts are inconvenient rage at the messenger.

I'm not disputing any of your facts. I'm just explaining the view from the middle ground.

[NRS]

ATG said:

... didn't either. None of the ones I know, anyway. Yes, they're fed up of their own incompetent and corrupt political class, but they didn't feel oppressed in Ukraine, they considered themselves Ukrainian, not Russian and they were nauseated by Putin's behaviour and heart-broken by what has happened. There was no justification for it at all, and it is quite without precedent; nothing like western intervention in the former Yugoslavia's civil wars, nor interventions in the M.E. or Afghanistan.

How is it nothing like Western interventions in other countries? Some people try to start a revolution and throw out the elected leader in a country next to Russia. Russia has both a lot of their own people in the country and an important military base there. Russia then interferes to defend base. We have supported plenty of bad governments (or gone to war in a country to replace leaders) to make sure our interests are supported. Often we have "none" of our own people there and it is a huge distance away from our country. Just we often try and say it is for humanitarian reasons. I don't see how it's nothing like our interventions.

[AreOut]

ATG said:

I am talking about ethnic Russians, you dolt.

ethnic Russians do not consider themselves Ukrainians, that's ridiculous

[ApOrbital]

A ship called Yantar has blue container based missile system is called Club K https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub



Yantar is supposed to be an Oceanographic research vessel it's just sat in the sea outside syria.

[JagLover]

AreOut said:

ATG said:

... didn't either. None of the ones I know, anyway. Yes, they're fed up of their own incompetent and corrupt political class, but they didn't feel oppressed in Ukraine, they considered themselves Ukrainian, not Russian and they were nauseated by Putin's behaviour and heart-broken by what has happened. There was no justification for it at all, and it is quite without precedent; nothing like western intervention in the former Yugoslavia's civil wars, nor interventions in the M.E. or Afghanistan.

those who consider themselves Ukrainian are Ukrainians, that's a separate nation

however there are ethnic Russians in Ukraine...lot of them

There is no clear dividing line between "ethnic" Russian and "ethnic" Ukrainian. They all come from the same branch of the east slavic tree, but Russians also mixed with various uralic tribes amongst others. The divisions are predominantly by language and history, which didn't necessarily follow the lines of the internal administrative sub divisions of the Russian and later Soviet empires.

Ukraine east of the Dnieper was Russian before the union of England & Scotland and was also in large parts an uninhabited wasteland at that point due to centuries of Tartar raids. Ukraine itself means "borderlands" in Russian.

By contrast a big chunk of western Ukraine was seized from Poland in 1939/45, and the entire area of western Ukraine spent much longer under foreign rule. Of course these areas had a distinct identity from eastern Ukraine, particularly provinces of eastern Ukraine as close to Russia proper as the Donbass region.

If ATG spent his time talking to western Ukrainians then of course they have no desire to be part of Russia.

[BlackLabel]

Britain will send hundreds more troops close to Russia’s border, the Government has said, as the Prime Minister also called for “pressure” on Moscow over the Syria crisis. Around 800 soldiers along with tanks, armoured vehicles and drones will now head to Estonia in the spring in a Nato effort to reassure the Baltic states over Russian aggression.

[Cobnapint]

So we're going to apply more pressure, but not for another 5 months.

Lol.

[turbobloke]

Lev Gudkov as head of the Russian polling group Levada-Center said most of his countrymen believe that the Third World War has begun

[Cobnapint]

turbobloke said:

Lev Gudkov as head of the Russian polling group Levada-Center said most of his countrymen believe that the Third World War has begun

Hardly surprising after the prat ordered nuclear attack drills.

[turbobloke]

Cobnapint said:

turbobloke said:

Lev Gudkov as head of the Russian polling group Levada-Center said most of his countrymen believe that the Third World War has begun

Hardly surprising after the prat ordered nuclear attack drills.

Quite.

[anonymous-user]

Art0ir said:

I'm just explaining the view from the middle ground.

Something people on internet forums tend to lack, middle ground, fortunately most sane people in the UK tend to view things from the middle ground.

[TheJimi]

turbobloke said:

Cobnapint said:

turbobloke said:

Lev Gudkov as head of the Russian polling group Levada-Center said most of his countrymen believe that the Third World War has begun

Hardly surprising after the prat ordered nuclear attack drills.

Quite.

"Britain on the front line"

fk me

Edit: I really really hate the way the gutter tabs are seeking to whip up maximum hysteria over this. They're practically giddy about it.

It's fking irresponsible.

Edited by TheJimi on Thursday 27th October 11:12

[scherzkeks]

Raygun said:

Art0ir said:

I'm just explaining the view from the middle ground.

Something people on internet forums tend to lack, middle ground, fortunately most sane people in the UK tend to view things from the middle ground.

Artoir's "sane" middle ground: Supporting jihadists in a war to unseat the sitting president of a foreign country in the name of oil.

Whatever floats your boat.