War with Russia
Discussion
The winter I was there the lowest Kiev city temperature was -34c with the coldest sunny midday of -12 iirc; my wife and I wandered home a little tipsy from a friends apartment in the wee small hours once to find our telephone ringing - they were worried we'd got home ok as after we left they saw the temperature was reading -32 degrees C.
E24man said:
The winter I was there the lowest Kiev city temperature was -34c with the coldest sunny midday of -12 iirc; my wife and I wandered home a little tipsy from a friends apartment in the wee small hours once to find our telephone ringing - they were worried we'd got home ok as after we left they saw the temperature was reading -32 degrees C.
The lowest temperature I saw there was -32, but then in the summer (I think the same year!) it was +40! I was in the far north by Belarus border; saw a picture of FB a couple of days ago of the rivers starting to freeze: surely the Russians know better than anyone that invasions (if that is on their mind) in winter rarely go well!?Yes, we saw 42 degrees in the summer making a 76 degree swing from winter to summer. It started snowing in early November and snowed day and night for just over three days and the whole city was then white until the thaw in early March. Loads of dead bodies found once the thaw was done with, then about three or so weeks of spring followed by a rapid temperature rise into the high twenties and low thirties for most of the summer and about two weeks of bonkers 40+ heat.
Private citizens carrying guns was supposedly illegal at the time so if you wanted armed protection for your building you rented some army bods to do it for you. There must have been someone important in our block of flats just up from the Bessarabski market as they were there day and night in three shifts handing over their solitary pistol; I never did found out who they were but the building wasn't targeted during the Elections that year so might they not have been too important... perhaps just a bit scared or worried.
I used to bring them home a Big Mac meal as recompense for waking them and having them open all the extra locks and bolts to let me re-enter in the wee small hours.
Private citizens carrying guns was supposedly illegal at the time so if you wanted armed protection for your building you rented some army bods to do it for you. There must have been someone important in our block of flats just up from the Bessarabski market as they were there day and night in three shifts handing over their solitary pistol; I never did found out who they were but the building wasn't targeted during the Elections that year so might they not have been too important... perhaps just a bit scared or worried.
I used to bring them home a Big Mac meal as recompense for waking them and having them open all the extra locks and bolts to let me re-enter in the wee small hours.
Edited by E24man on Friday 30th November 05:33
Cobnapint said:
We already know how useless the UN is, and NATO are out of the game anyway as Ukraine aren't members.
They have skirted around membership for sometime now and have co-operated with Nato. Maybe when Don and Vlad meet for an impromptu session in Argentina they can sort it out man to man.
In the meantime I am sure the Russian home press are going nuts about this and the poor Ukrainian Sailors will be useful pawns in his plans for world domination .
johnxjsc1985 said:
Cobnapint said:
We already know how useless the UN is, and NATO are out of the game anyway as Ukraine aren't members.
They have skirted around membership for sometime now and have co-operated with Nato. Maybe when Don and Vlad meet for an impromptu session in Argentina they can sort it out man to man.
In the meantime I am sure the Russian home press are going nuts about this and the poor Ukrainian Sailors will be useful pawns in his plans for world domination .
Prez has banned Russian men of fighting age from entering marshal law regions. Either expecting invasion, bolstering pre-election support or both.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-...
glazbagun said:
Prez has banned Russian men of fighting age from entering marshal law regions. Either expecting invasion, bolstering pre-election support or both.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-...
Like Russia give a fhttps://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-...
k .If they plan on sending the little green men in again then they will regardless.
Russia’s big weakness is its fragile economy.
It is the biggest country in the world in terms of land mass, but their economy is poor and is roughly the same size of Italy’s. Their economy depends on energy sales with an infrastructure that could be easily destroyed.
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
It is the biggest country in the world in terms of land mass, but their economy is poor and is roughly the same size of Italy’s. Their economy depends on energy sales with an infrastructure that could be easily destroyed.
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
toppstuff said:
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
I was really hoping that Trump, being such an outlier, would reveal something about the great game, but the powers that be have either had a word with him or are keeping a low profile.It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
I'd love a look at the big board that explains the global priorities of the great powers.
toppstuff said:
Russia’s big weakness is its fragile economy.
It is the biggest country in the world in terms of land mass, but their economy is poor and is roughly the same size of Italy’s. Their economy depends on energy sales with an infrastructure that could be easily destroyed.
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
Assuming your hypothesis is correct, occam suggests the problem is not how to topple the gansters in charge, it is how to stop another set of gangsters installing themselves, or equally tinfoilly, fear of the longterm consequences of a Russia with rule of law and democracy; it might one day rival the US or it might fragment into many splinter states like the aftermath of the USSR.It is the biggest country in the world in terms of land mass, but their economy is poor and is roughly the same size of Italy’s. Their economy depends on energy sales with an infrastructure that could be easily destroyed.
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
toppstuff said:
Russia’s big weakness is its fragile economy.
It is the biggest country in the world in terms of land mass, but their economy is poor and is roughly the same size of Italy’s. Their economy depends on energy sales with an infrastructure that could be easily destroyed.
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
The problem is, through chance or design, these sort of incident like the recent one over the Sea of Azov always seem to happen right around a severe cold snap in winter. It is very hard to hold Russia's feet to the fire, when half of Europe is freezing to death with no natural gas.It is the biggest country in the world in terms of land mass, but their economy is poor and is roughly the same size of Italy’s. Their economy depends on energy sales with an infrastructure that could be easily destroyed.
For political reasons we don’t properly understand, the West only plays with sanctions. Russia is ruled by a bourgeoisie of a few dozen people who could be ruined pretty quickly if the west chose to.
It’s interesting that we generally choose to leave them to it. Probably some conspiracy thing with lizard people and illuminati I guess. Europe’s dependency on Russian gas is no doubt a factor.
mko9 said:
The problem is, through chance or design, these sort of incident like the recent one over the Sea of Azov always seem to happen right around a severe cold snap in winter. It is very hard to hold Russia's feet to the fire, when half of Europe is freezing to death with no natural gas.
It's also happened at a time when the UK government is rather distracted by something else and is about to implode, Merkel's powers are nearly gone, France is falling out with Macron and Trump is up to his neck in Russian collusion allegations. Cobnapint said:
It's also happened at a time when the UK government is rather distracted by something else and is about to implode, Merkel's powers are nearly gone, France is falling out with Macron and Trump is up to his neck in Russian collusion allegations.
Stepping back, why is a key issue for the UK (or Germany or France) whether Crimea is again an integral part of Russia as it has been for over 300 years? It's not as if we're worried about the threat to the Raj anymore. And if we're concerned about due process, or self-determination of peoples trumping the inviobility of international borders, then I suggest we:
a) Bring it before the United Nations,
b) Stop dismembering states ourselves and exercising military force without a basis in international law, so that we can do (a) with a straight face.
Octoposse said:
Stepping back, why is a key issue for the UK (or Germany or France) whether Crimea is again an integral part of Russia as it has been for over 300 years?
It's not as if we're worried about the threat to the Raj anymore. And if we're concerned about due process, or self-determination of peoples trumping the inviobility of international borders, then I suggest we:
a) Bring it before the United Nations,
b) Stop dismembering states ourselves and exercising military force without a basis in international law, so that we can do (a) with a straight face.
Quite clearly Putin has decided to trigger a bit more of his own 'self determination' on Ukraine while the RoW is distracted with other things. I fully expect the tanks to roll just before Xmas when nobody will want to give a fIt's not as if we're worried about the threat to the Raj anymore. And if we're concerned about due process, or self-determination of peoples trumping the inviobility of international borders, then I suggest we:
a) Bring it before the United Nations,
b) Stop dismembering states ourselves and exercising military force without a basis in international law, so that we can do (a) with a straight face.
k.Meanwhile, a Russian 'jounalist' has been paying a lot of interest in one of our military bases.
http://news.sky.com/story/warning-after-russian-jo...
http://news.sky.com/story/warning-after-russian-jo...
Cobnapint said:
Quite clearly Putin has decided to trigger a bit more of his own 'self determination' on Ukraine while the RoW is distracted with other things. I fully expect the tanks to roll just before Xmas when nobody will want to give a fk.
Not so sure. Territoriality, Russia has what it wants - Crimea.k.Diplomatically, what they have wanted for four years is a settlement recognising that reality. Plus a figleaf of self-government for those other areas in Ukraine not currently under government control.
'We' don't want to grant that recognition - long term plan cannot realistically be to return Crimea to Ukrainian control, so I assume it's the risky one of just being bloody minded and making Moscow pay a diplomatic and economic price for Crimea. So, perhaps, Moscow'll up the pressure where they have leverage to incentivise a deal.
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