Malaysia Airlines Plane "Loses Contact"

[Borroxs]

When I've lost something, I usually cant find it when I look. Usually turns up shortly after I've given up looking. Is this the new approach with the aeroplane full of missing people? Stop looking, and it will 'turn up' somewhere a few days later?


I'd just suggest that if this was a plane full of westerner's they'd still be looking.

[FourWheelDrift]

Borroxs said:

When I've lost something, I usually cant find it when I look. Usually turns up shortly after I've given up looking. Is this the new approach with the aeroplane full of missing people? Stop looking, and it will 'turn up' somewhere a few days later?

Chairs, that's where they usually end up. But that's a lot of chairs to look down the back of. You will need some kind of search plan strategy, maybe bring in some expert opinions on which colour chair it is most likely to be found down the back of.

[AreOut]

The Spruce goose said:

areout why not start a gofund page see if can get a private search party set up?

I doubt it could be done without state support. And it's very expensive.

[mybrainhurts]

FourWheelDrift said:

The Titanic is approximately 13 Titanic lengths down, if anything the image of the Titanic is too small?

Titanic - 269m long
1 mile = 1609.34m

So 1 mile = 5.98 Titanics, multiply by 2.2 = 13.1 lengths.

I'm right aren't I, it's late and I might be a little bit drunk.

It's a good job you're not driving it, then...

[FourWheelDrift]

mybrainhurts said:

FourWheelDrift said:

The Titanic is approximately 13 Titanic lengths down, if anything the image of the Titanic is too small?

Titanic - 269m long
1 mile = 1609.34m

So 1 mile = 5.98 Titanics, multiply by 2.2 = 13.1 lengths.

I'm right aren't I, it's late and I might be a little bit drunk.

It's a good job you're not driving it, then...

Damn right, it's much safer up here in the crows nest.

[mybrainhurts]

FourWheelDrift said:

mybrainhurts said:

FourWheelDrift said:

The Titanic is approximately 13 Titanic lengths down, if anything the image of the Titanic is too small?

Titanic - 269m long
1 mile = 1609.34m

So 1 mile = 5.98 Titanics, multiply by 2.2 = 13.1 lengths.

I'm right aren't I, it's late and I might be a little bit drunk.

It's a good job you're not driving it, then...

Damn right, it's much safer up here in the crows nest.

Left hand down a bit, always left hand down a bit, then you can't go wrong...

[MitchT]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already and I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out, but here's a thing ...

Some time ago I saw a programme on TV about Rolls Royce jet engines which included a bit saying that they get feed of data from all their engines all over the world and can monitor their performance, faults etc. This was reiterated recently on a BBC2 programme called "City in the Sky". So, what data was Rolls Royce receiving from the engines on 9M-MRO when between the transponder gong off and it's presumed time of end of flight?

[FourWheelDrift]

MitchT said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned already and I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out, but here's a thing ...

Some time ago I saw a programme on TV about Rolls Royce jet engines which included a bit saying that they get feed of data from all their engines all over the world and can monitor their performance, faults etc. This was reiterated recently on a BBC2 programme called "City in the Sky". So, what data was Rolls Royce receiving from the engines on 9M-MRO when between the transponder gong off and it's presumed time of end of flight?

Here you go - http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/03/13/...

[Vaud]

MitchT said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned already and I'm not about to read the whole thread to find out, but here's a thing ...

Some time ago I saw a programme on TV about Rolls Royce jet engines which included a bit saying that they get feed of data from all their engines all over the world and can monitor their performance, faults etc. This was reiterated recently on a BBC2 programme called "City in the Sky". So, what data was Rolls Royce receiving from the engines on 9M-MRO when between the transponder gong off and it's presumed time of end of flight?

I can't speak for this flight.

But all modern aircraft engines do capture lots of data @ ~4tb per flight on modern engines. But that isn't streamed live, it's downloaded at the destination. The issue is one of bandwidth/cost/ROI.

[Crafty_]

I don't know for sure, but most likely snapshot data sent via ACARS.

This would be a single value for stuff like turbine gas temperature, N1/N2 speeds, oil pressure/temperature, maybe fuel flow. Usually there are a few snapshots per flight - say takeoff, climb and then cruise. Probably fed from the FADEC to a monitoring system on board, which then sends out the ACARS messages.

Whilst data such as this is recorded constantly once a second (or even more frequently than that) its generally not sent whilst the aircraft is in flight but when the aircraft lands. This is normally done by a QAR recorder. The data is typically used for maintenance and operational improvements.

So, the sending (and receipt) of ACARS messages may give a clue but they are probably not frequently enough to track the plane down to the minute.

[M4cruiser]

Vaud said:

But that isn't streamed live, it's downloaded at the destination. The issue is one of bandwidth/cost/ROI.

Cost has been mentioned before ... but it's surely occurring to all of us that the cost of sending the data for all flights would be less than the cost of searching for the rare ones which get lost?

[NickXX]

M4cruiser said:

Cost has been mentioned before ... but it's surely occurring to all of us that the cost of sending the data for all flights would be less than the cost of searching for the rare ones which get lost?

Given how many flights there are, I'd imagine that this isn't the case at all. Even in the last 10 years, there are very, very few planes that just disappear.

[davepoth]

NickXX said:

M4cruiser said:

Cost has been mentioned before ... but it's surely occurring to all of us that the cost of sending the data for all flights would be less than the cost of searching for the rare ones which get lost?

Given how many flights there are, I'd imagine that this isn't the case at all. Even in the last 10 years, there are very, very few planes that just disappear.

It's planned - the cost of satellite data is dropping fast and I should think a lot of airlines will be doing live GPS tracking of their planes before long, if not already. They'll steadily add data as costs allow.

[Vaud]

M4cruiser said:

Vaud said:

But that isn't streamed live, it's downloaded at the destination. The issue is one of bandwidth/cost/ROI.

Cost has been mentioned before ... but it's surely occurring to all of us that the cost of sending the data for all flights would be less than the cost of searching for the rare ones which get lost?

Sorry, I'm confusing things.

Small bursts of key data to satellites from most planes is coming soon. The detail of all sensors/activities, streamed in real time on a flight is a way of.

[MitchT]

Thanks for the replies. What I saw on TV implied that there was a room full of people watching screens 24/7 receiving realtime data. Maybe it was just the way it was presented but that's what came across.

[FourWheelDrift]

Australian researchers claim to have located MH370 by modelling ocean drift - http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2...

Ok, go find it then.

[AdeTuono]

FourWheelDrift said:

Australian researchers claim to have located MH370 by modelling ocean drift - http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2...

Ok, go find it then.

Didn't someone claim that three years ago?

[yajeed]

Vaud said:

I can't speak for this flight.

But all modern aircraft engines do capture lots of data @ ~4tb per flight on modern engines. But that isn't streamed live, it's downloaded at the destination. The issue is one of bandwidth/cost/ROI.

I read that there were various options that RR provide to airlines, to include more/less realtime data of engine performance.

Malaysian Airlines just had the basic package which transmits very infrequently.

Found it - https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/5gkk9x/how-does...

Says they had 2 bursts, on take off and when at cruising altitude, both not very useful.

[red_slr]

4TB? Are you sure that's a crazy number. Even 4GB would be a lot of data.

[surveyor]

yajeed said:

Vaud said:

I can't speak for this flight.

But all modern aircraft engines do capture lots of data @ ~4tb per flight on modern engines. But that isn't streamed live, it's downloaded at the destination. The issue is one of bandwidth/cost/ROI.

I read that there were various options that RR provide to airlines, to include more/less realtime data of engine performance.

Malaysian Airlines just had the basic package which transmits very infrequently.

Found it - https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/5gkk9x/how-does...

Says they had 2 bursts, on take off and when at cruising altitude, both not very useful.

I recall that the first indications of Air France A330 being in trouble was the maintenance centre receiving ACARS alerts from the system with the various error messages that the pilots were seeing.

Airbus have also just announced a black box that will auto eject in Water and float on the surface. I would assume it also includes some sort of locator.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/21/ejectable-floating-...