Clarkson: Racist
Discussion
Mr Snap said:
"The train cannot be removed nor the line re-opened until all of the victim's body has been recovered. And sometimes the head can be half a mile away from the feet." ... "Change the driver, pick up the big bits of what's left of the victim, get the train moving as quickly as possible and let foxy woxy and the birds nibble away at the smaller, gooey parts that are far away or hard to find"
That ^^^^^^^^^^^Is called life.
In the same way as Clarkson himself had to clear his mothers bits and pices away to get life moving again, only he was commending her for doing most of for him before she went.
She was thinking of what she would leave behind, unlike that bloke that jumped in front of the train.
A point he made very well and I am glad you posted it as it is a quality bit of writing.
Mr Snap said:
mybrainhurts said:
A lot seems to go over your head. Try reading more slowly. He wasn't having a go at the BBC bloke, he was having a thoroughly deserved go at hysterical MPs. What do you want him to say, something like an unnamed source told me a bunch of MPs had contacted the BBC?
Get it now....?
Well, there you go, isn't that the beauty of English literature? You read it and see one thing, I read it and see something else.Get it now....?
He was having a go at the BBC, The Daily Mirror, reporters in general and the MP. Clarkson refers to the BBC twice at the top of the piece, first as 'bleating' and second as 'moaning'. In fact uses the BBC et al as a rhetorical device to take us from the trivial to the sublime; a sort of reverse bathos. Without the bit about the BBC, the stuff about his mother would sound merely trite and self pitying.
Clarkson is utterly self-serving. He's telling us what a lovely 'sensitive' chap he is whilst having a free swipe at his enemies. Worse still, he's being paid for it.
Do you get it now?
Mr Snap said:
Anyway, just to lift the mood, here's Clarkson showing his own unique brand of sympathy towards people who commit suicide under trains:
"The train cannot be removed nor the line re-opened until all of the victim's body has been recovered. And sometimes the head can be half a mile away from the feet." ... "Change the driver, pick up the big bits of what's left of the victim, get the train moving as quickly as possible and let foxy woxy and the birds nibble away at the smaller, gooey parts that are far away or hard to find"
He's such a sentimental old sausage."The train cannot be removed nor the line re-opened until all of the victim's body has been recovered. And sometimes the head can be half a mile away from the feet." ... "Change the driver, pick up the big bits of what's left of the victim, get the train moving as quickly as possible and let foxy woxy and the birds nibble away at the smaller, gooey parts that are far away or hard to find"
I don't actually see the issue with his comment about the train jumpers - suicide is a fairly selfish act as it is (and can the lefties keep the bleeding hearts to a minimum, it is something I have personally been affected by multiple times in the past), however to do it in a way that traumatizes the driver, causes mass disruption, and leaves a fairly messy clean up job, is about as selfish as it gets. I'm fairly certain Clarkson's kids will have been brought up in such a way they will see this is as well.
I'm sorry, but if you end it by jumping in front of a train you are a t
t, and instantly lose any sympathy I had for your plight. And trust me, if someone is contemplating that, after losing 2 friends at uni to suicide, I have plenty of sympathy. This is how I managed to talk another friend out of following them.
I'm sorry, but if you end it by jumping in front of a train you are a t
t, and instantly lose any sympathy I had for your plight. And trust me, if someone is contemplating that, after losing 2 friends at uni to suicide, I have plenty of sympathy. This is how I managed to talk another friend out of following them. bodhi said:
I don't actually see the issue with his comment about the train jumpers - suicide is a fairly selfish act as it is (and can the lefties keep the bleeding hearts to a minimum, it is something I have personally been affected by multiple times in the past), however to do it in a way that traumatizes the driver, causes mass disruption, and leaves a fairly messy clean up job, is about as selfish as it gets. I'm fairly certain Clarkson's kids will have been brought up in such a way they will see this is as well.
I'm sorry, but if you end it by jumping in front of a train you are a tt, and instantly lose any sympathy I had for your plight. And trust me, if someone is contemplating that, after losing 2 friends at uni to suicide, I have plenty of sympathy. This is how I managed to talk another friend out of following them.
I'm terribly sorry that 'inconsiderate tI'm sorry, but if you end it by jumping in front of a train you are a t
t, and instantly lose any sympathy I had for your plight. And trust me, if someone is contemplating that, after losing 2 friends at uni to suicide, I have plenty of sympathy. This is how I managed to talk another friend out of following them. ts' committing suicide in front of trains has made you late for work. Perhaps, you should use Twitter to warn the 'inconsiderate tts' of your train journeys in advance? I'm sure that, with this information, they'll realise that you getting home for your tea on time is far more important. People who throw themselves in front of trains are, as a rule, suffering from depression and unable to make rational decisions. They and their families, who have to pick up the pieces (no pun intended), deserve our sympathy and can probably do without your, or Clarkson's, observations.
Or, let's put it another way: When your friend was suicidal, did you help him by being sympathetic or did you, instead, give him lots of useful advice about which methods would be more or less 't
tishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend. 
Mr Snap said:
Or, let's put it another way: When your friend was suicidal, did you help him by being sympathetic or did you, instead, give him lots of useful advice about which methods would be more or less 'ttishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend.
Are you suggesting Clarkson wouldn't? tishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend. Hackney said:
heebeegeetee said:
audidoody said:
I would kill to have half of Clarkson's writing ability nd presentational talent. IMHO he's up there with the best satirists (e.g. Alan Coren, Craig Brown, Simon Hoggart) and star writers such as Charles Shaar Murray, AA Gill.
These are people who stand out from the mass of instantly forgettable egotistical confessional rubbish churned out by any number of second-rate self-styled celebrity columnists.
He's also a presenter of rare talent. If you doubt that, get a mate to jab a microphone and camera in your face and recite the script you just wrote as if it is spontaneous speech.
Clarkson's use of metaphor is sublime. He writes in the pared-down simplified style of the trained reporter that he is. So he instantly engages the reader (as proven by the fact that people on this thread have read his articles in there entirety and can recall everything he wrote.
Anyone who thinks he is a misogynistic racist probably also thinks 'Animal Farm' is about a farmyard . He uses hyperbole, sarcasm and irony to poke fun at the general uselessness of those who run society.
He is also a damn fine documentary maker. And he once thumped Piers Morgan, which alone should assure him of a Knighthood.
I agree. These are people who stand out from the mass of instantly forgettable egotistical confessional rubbish churned out by any number of second-rate self-styled celebrity columnists.
He's also a presenter of rare talent. If you doubt that, get a mate to jab a microphone and camera in your face and recite the script you just wrote as if it is spontaneous speech.
Clarkson's use of metaphor is sublime. He writes in the pared-down simplified style of the trained reporter that he is. So he instantly engages the reader (as proven by the fact that people on this thread have read his articles in there entirety and can recall everything he wrote.
Anyone who thinks he is a misogynistic racist probably also thinks 'Animal Farm' is about a farmyard . He uses hyperbole, sarcasm and irony to poke fun at the general uselessness of those who run society.
He is also a damn fine documentary maker. And he once thumped Piers Morgan, which alone should assure him of a Knighthood.
Mr Snap said:
I'm terribly sorry that 'inconsiderate tts' committing suicide in front of trains has made you late for work. Perhaps, you should use Twitter to warn the 'inconsiderate tts' of your train journeys in advance? I'm sure that, with this information, they'll realise that you getting home for your tea on time is far more important.
People who throw themselves in front of trains are, as a rule, suffering from depression and unable to make rational decisions. They and their families, who have to pick up the pieces (no pun intended), deserve our sympathy and can probably do without your, or Clarkson's, observations.
Or, let's put it another way: When your friend was suicidal, did you help him by being sympathetic or did you, instead, give him lots of useful advice about which methods would be more or less 'ttishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend.
Well no, it hasn't made me late for work, as I commute by car. And to be honest, in my view, the delays to the train are the least worst consequence, I'm more concerned about the trauma to the driver and the poor bts' committing suicide in front of trains has made you late for work. Perhaps, you should use Twitter to warn the 'inconsiderate tts' of your train journeys in advance? I'm sure that, with this information, they'll realise that you getting home for your tea on time is far more important. People who throw themselves in front of trains are, as a rule, suffering from depression and unable to make rational decisions. They and their families, who have to pick up the pieces (no pun intended), deserve our sympathy and can probably do without your, or Clarkson's, observations.
Or, let's put it another way: When your friend was suicidal, did you help him by being sympathetic or did you, instead, give him lots of useful advice about which methods would be more or less 't
tishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend. ds who've got to clear up. So rather than just affecting the jumper and their family (which is bad), it affects a train full of people, the driver, and the emergency services. Pretty much the definition of a selfish act if you ask me. For me the only worse way to do it (if you have to do it at all), is to go on a rampage then turn the gun on yourself.
Not sure if you've ever been affected by someone ending it all, but whilst grief is quite a common emotion for those left behind, it is always accompanied by anger. Why didn't they talk to us, why did they feel they had no choice, and indeed, why have they been so selfish. I've seen all of these first hand. Suicide is a horrible thing to do on so many levels, bringing so many other people into your suffering just erodes the sympathy you get for it.
And thanks for your concern about how I helped talk a good friend out of it. There was some sympathy, however the message was so much more positive than that - remind him of all the things he enjoys, and asking what he can do to fix his problems if he's splattered across the rocks by the cliffs in St Andrews. Seemed to work pretty well, he graduated with a medical degree, and is now helping with the aid effort in Africa.
audidoody said:
I would kill to have half of Clarkson's writing ability nd presentational talent. IMHO he's up there with the best satirists (e.g. Alan Coren, Craig Brown, Simon Hoggart) and star writers such as Charles Shaar Murray, AA Gill.
These are people who stand out from the mass of instantly forgettable egotistical confessional rubbish churned out by any number of second-rate self-styled celebrity columnists.
Pretty much this. While he's certainly a divisive character his ability as a writer is undisputed. If only the columnists to which you allude were as talented.These are people who stand out from the mass of instantly forgettable egotistical confessional rubbish churned out by any number of second-rate self-styled celebrity columnists.
audidoody said:
I would kill to have half of Clarkson's writing ability nd presentational talent. IMHO he's up there with the best satirists (e.g. Alan Coren, Craig Brown, Simon Hoggart) and star writers such as Charles Shaar Murray, AA Gill.
These are people who stand out from the mass of instantly forgettable egotistical confessional rubbish churned out by any number of second-rate self-styled celebrity columnists.
He's also a presenter of rare talent. If you doubt that, get a mate to jab a microphone and camera in your face and recite the script you just wrote as if it is spontaneous speech.
Clarkson's use of metaphor is sublime. He writes in the pared-down simplified style of the trained reporter that he is. So he instantly engages the reader (as proven by the fact that people on this thread have read his articles in their entirety and can recall everything he wrote.
Anyone who thinks he is a misogynistic racist probably also thinks 'Animal Farm' is about a farmyard . He uses hyperbole, sarcasm and irony to poke fun at the general uselessness of those who run society.
He is also a damn fine documentary maker. And he once thumped Piers Morgan, which alone should assure him of a Knighthood.
Well yes - he's said the same thing thousands of times over the last 25 years or so, shuffling a word around here & there. Not sure if he's quite Private Eye material in the quality of his satire, but good luck to him. These days some of the TG specials are still even okay-ish.These are people who stand out from the mass of instantly forgettable egotistical confessional rubbish churned out by any number of second-rate self-styled celebrity columnists.
He's also a presenter of rare talent. If you doubt that, get a mate to jab a microphone and camera in your face and recite the script you just wrote as if it is spontaneous speech.
Clarkson's use of metaphor is sublime. He writes in the pared-down simplified style of the trained reporter that he is. So he instantly engages the reader (as proven by the fact that people on this thread have read his articles in their entirety and can recall everything he wrote.
Anyone who thinks he is a misogynistic racist probably also thinks 'Animal Farm' is about a farmyard . He uses hyperbole, sarcasm and irony to poke fun at the general uselessness of those who run society.
He is also a damn fine documentary maker. And he once thumped Piers Morgan, which alone should assure him of a Knighthood.
Edited by audidoody on Thursday 12th June 09:52
As for "well it's popular so it must be good"
.... hmmm McDonalds really is the height of cuisine, isn't it? Clever marketing & exposure mean more than intrinsic quality.
A distant relation on mine was a train driver who had two suicides when he was driving trains. I think that some writing can only guess at the mess hitting a body with a 125 train does. As Clarkson says the big bits are relatively easy to find but the rest is strewn across a large length of track.
Those who commit suicide are not selfish they are ill, but there is no point in keeping everything closed for hours to find odd bits. It is not like the family want to look and say "there's his kidney's" is it.
We should treat such events with sadness but practicality. Recently a guy jumped off the Avon crossing, both sides of the motorway was closed whilst they tried to get him down, but he jumped. The body was now 120 feet below but the motorway still was closed for several hours after. It is this sort of thing that has no sense, the scene of the incident was not now affect by the traffic yet for some reason it was still close. Perhaps it is because some feel that to get on with life is some how wrong.
Those who commit suicide are not selfish they are ill, but there is no point in keeping everything closed for hours to find odd bits. It is not like the family want to look and say "there's his kidney's" is it.
We should treat such events with sadness but practicality. Recently a guy jumped off the Avon crossing, both sides of the motorway was closed whilst they tried to get him down, but he jumped. The body was now 120 feet below but the motorway still was closed for several hours after. It is this sort of thing that has no sense, the scene of the incident was not now affect by the traffic yet for some reason it was still close. Perhaps it is because some feel that to get on with life is some how wrong.
Ari said:
Mr Snap said:
Or, let's put it another way: When your friend was suicidal, did you help him by being sympathetic or did you, instead, give him lots of useful advice about which methods would be more or less 'ttishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend.
Are you suggesting Clarkson wouldn't? tishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend. I am suggesting that a man who uses the death of his mother to garner sympathy, whilst at the same time as taking a swipe at the BBC, and who has a track record of being pretty harsh on the suicide of people unknown to him, is someone whose motives I'm wary of.
Add on to this - as others have observed - what a good writer he is and I have to conclude that his underlying motives were ultimately cynical, rather than being a simple elegy for his deceased mother and the rites of passage.
Clarkson is a good writer, not nearly in the class of Amis or Self, but an extremely good writer none the less. Reading his stuff is a bit like watching a Hollywood movie; you know you're being manipulated by hackneyed tropes but you can't help falling for it again and again...
Clarkson knows how to achieve effect, that's what good writers do. But it doesn't necessarily mean his words are sincere. Alternatively, his words might contain sincere emotions but, being a good writer, he's fully capable of using them to address more than one target.
Mr Snap said:
bodhi said:
I don't actually see the issue with his comment about the train jumpers - suicide is a fairly selfish act as it is (and can the lefties keep the bleeding hearts to a minimum, it is something I have personally been affected by multiple times in the past), however to do it in a way that traumatizes the driver, causes mass disruption, and leaves a fairly messy clean up job, is about as selfish as it gets. I'm fairly certain Clarkson's kids will have been brought up in such a way they will see this is as well.
I'm sorry, but if you end it by jumping in front of a train you are a tt, and instantly lose any sympathy I had for your plight. And trust me, if someone is contemplating that, after losing 2 friends at uni to suicide, I have plenty of sympathy. This is how I managed to talk another friend out of following them.
I'm terribly sorry that 'inconsiderate tI'm sorry, but if you end it by jumping in front of a train you are a t
t, and instantly lose any sympathy I had for your plight. And trust me, if someone is contemplating that, after losing 2 friends at uni to suicide, I have plenty of sympathy. This is how I managed to talk another friend out of following them. ts' committing suicide in front of trains has made you late for work. Perhaps, you should use Twitter to warn the 'inconsiderate tts' of your train journeys in advance? I'm sure that, with this information, they'll realise that you getting home for your tea on time is far more important. People who throw themselves in front of trains are, as a rule, suffering from depression and unable to make rational decisions. They and their families, who have to pick up the pieces (no pun intended), deserve our sympathy and can probably do without your, or Clarkson's, observations.
Or, let's put it another way: When your friend was suicidal, did you help him by being sympathetic or did you, instead, give him lots of useful advice about which methods would be more or less 't
tishly inconsiderate'? I'm guessing that you took the sympathetic route? It doesn't take much imagination to realise that train suicides and their families deserve the same sympathy as your friend. He is being inconsiderate to the surviving family but, frankly (as someone else pointed out), it isn't really going to matter if they get all the bits. Most of it will do just as well as all of it.
Mr Snap said:
Clarkson is a good writer, not nearly in the class of Amis or Self,
Will Self? Really? Get your laughing gear around this:""Marshall McLuhan's equation of the medium with the message has become a shibboleth to be lisped on a thousand thousand message boards, but less widely understood is that the "glocal" phenomenon of the web plus the internet has yet to crystallise into a definable medium – we live in an interregnum between cultural hegemonies, and in such times, as Marx observed of political interregnums, the strangest forms will arise."
Unlike the indefatigable Mr Self - I have no words.
Edited by audidoody on Friday 13th June 14:52
AstonZagato said:
But he is NOT being inconsiderate to those potentially committing suicide: he is being inconsiderate to those that have successfully done so. They are dead. At that point they are past caring if their body is picked up or not.
He is being inconsiderate to the surviving family but, frankly (as someone else pointed out), it isn't really going to matter if they get all the bits. Most of it will do just as well as all of it.
Picking up every possible bit really does matter because there has to be an inquest. To suggest that certain types of suicide don't merit an inquest - and possibly a post-mortem - would ride a coach and horses through English law. He is being inconsiderate to the surviving family but, frankly (as someone else pointed out), it isn't really going to matter if they get all the bits. Most of it will do just as well as all of it.
If a "suicide" was under the influence of drugs or alcohol or even murdered, prior to being left on the tracks, and this was missed, there would be public outcry.
Mr Snap said:
AstonZagato said:
But he is NOT being inconsiderate to those potentially committing suicide: he is being inconsiderate to those that have successfully done so. They are dead. At that point they are past caring if their body is picked up or not.
He is being inconsiderate to the surviving family but, frankly (as someone else pointed out), it isn't really going to matter if they get all the bits. Most of it will do just as well as all of it.
Picking up every possible bit really does matter because there has to be an inquest. To suggest that certain types of suicide don't merit an inquest - and possibly a post-mortem - would ride a coach and horses through English law. He is being inconsiderate to the surviving family but, frankly (as someone else pointed out), it isn't really going to matter if they get all the bits. Most of it will do just as well as all of it.
If a "suicide" was under the influence of drugs or alcohol or even murdered, prior to being left on the tracks, and this was missed, there would be public outcry.
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