UKIP - The Future - Volume 2

[Timsta]

mrpurple said:

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

Did he or did he not claim two lots of expenses for running that office, one from the EU and one from UKIP HQ, Yes or No, it's a simple question.

No, he didn't.

Didn't appear to be an allegation made in the article, and I am sure it would have been made if it was at all possible.

Quite.

[WinstonWolf]

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

Before the whole shennanigans of Nige's expenses blows up into a conpiracy theory can we just settle the basic facts.

He claimed £15,500 a year to run his constituency office? Yes or No.

UKIP also fully funded the cost of running that office? Yes or No.

The in and outs, the letter of the law, EU regulations (which would be an irony were he to fall back on them as a defense), whatever. If the answer to the above two questions is Yes then the only crux question is, who has he defrauded? The UKIP bank rollers or the EU.

Oh do keep up, it has been blown apart already by the interviewee for that article, you usually troll much better than that Matt, we have come to expect better from you!

Did he or did he not claim two lots of expenses for running that office, one from the EU and one from UKIP HQ, Yes or No, it's a simple question.

David Samuel- Camps who was quoted in The Times smear piece today has written to the paper making clear that the story has distorted his responses to the questions he was posed. We publish his full unabridged letter below:

"I am extremely concerned that in your report you have distorted my responses to your questions regarding the Lyminster office costs.

"On the front page you quote me as stating that the costs were £3000 per year. This is grossly incorrect. I told you that the previous manager had tied the office into some supply contracts and as a result the monthly costs were some £2000. I told you several times that I eventually reduced the costs to £700 per month. When I went to school we were taught the times tables and that £700 times 12 equals £8400 (which is not too far removed from Mr Farage’s £1000 per month) so where on earth did you come up with a figure of £3000?

"At no time did I say that “electricity, heating, and business rates at the office totalled less than £250 a month”. I told you that I could not remember the individual amounts as it was over four years ago but they would have been in the region of £200 each.

"Later, you then contradict yourselves by quoting me as saying that the costs were £700 per month - which is correct. You asked me a number of times about the £700/month figure which I confirmed several times; again I have to ask how does £700 per month equate to £3000 per year? I should also point out that our conversations were witnessed.

"To the best of knowledge and belief I was completely honest in my answers and resent the fact that those answers have been completely distorted. I did warn you that there is a small minority who are 'mischief makers' – one in particular who would go to any lengths to destroy Mr Farage’s reputation.

"I expect you to publish corrections as outlined above.

"Finally, I should point out that the Lyminster is nowhere near Bognor Regis; it is on the outskirts of Littlehampton, a fact that could have been verified by looking at an AA road atlas!"

David Samuel-Camps BA (Hons) Dip. PA

Feck me this is getting a bit Paxmanesque, I have no desire to come across that way but this letter does not answer my question, do you really think it is? Mr Howard, I shall ask you again, did he or did he not claim for the running of that office from both the EU expenses system and UKIP head office?

No, he didn't.

[dandarez]

FredClogs said:

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

Before the whole shennanigans of Nige's expenses blows up into a conpiracy theory can we just settle the basic facts.

He claimed £15,500 a year to run his constituency office? Yes or No.

UKIP also fully funded the cost of running that office? Yes or No.

The in and outs, the letter of the law, EU regulations (which would be an irony were he to fall back on them as a defense), whatever. If the answer to the above two questions is Yes then the only crux question is, who has he defrauded? The UKIP bank rollers or the EU.

Oh do keep up, it has been blown apart already by the interviewee for that article, you usually troll much better than that Matt, we have come to expect better from you!

Did he or did he not claim two lots of expenses for running that office, one from the EU and one from UKIP HQ, Yes or No, it's a simple question.

Oh give it a rest!
Next you'll be wanting independent auditors in to assess Nige's and UKIP expenses.

Oh...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

you see, our 'man' doesn't run away like your shower(s).

This is nothing more than the start of the dirt and smear campaign(s) I said would intensify against UKIP (and Farage).
It won't work though, he's too bloody clever for the dimwits that abound today. All will be thrown at him and UKIP (and us Kippers) but none of it will work.

From strength to strength. The Kipper train is rolling and nothing will stop it, with the exception and your only hope - Cameron stands down or is kicked out (I still think that is highly likely around Xmas). And I admit THAT will derail the train.

NOTHING else will!

[FredClogs]

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

[mrpurple]

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

Oscar Wilde

[Timsta]

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

[TKF]

mrpurple said:

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

Oscar Wilde

Meeting the Spice Girls was the greatest day of my life.

Nelson Mandela

[FredClogs]

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

Well it's an allowance given specifically to cover expenses, we can probably all agree the system is ambiguous, I've had jobs where when I traveled I'd get an unreceipted daily allowance and I was happy to trouser what I didn't spend "on tour" infact sometimes I'd eat in Mcdonalds and save teh extra so I could treat the Missus when I got home, I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage, but anyway I digress Farage is presumably saying he has to take the full amount? and that he couldn't have averaged out his spending and returned what he hadn't spent.

[WinstonWolf]

FredClogs said:

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

Well it's an allowance given specifically to cover expenses, we can probably all agree the system is ambiguous, I've had jobs where when I traveled I'd get an unreceipted daily allowance and I was happy to trouser what I didn't spend "on tour" infact sometimes I'd eat in Mcdonalds and save teh extra so I could treat the Missus when I got home, I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage, but anyway I digress Farage is presumably saying he has to take the full amount? and that he couldn't have averaged out his spending and returned what he hadn't spent.

Did you do that? Did you return your own excessive allowances 'Mr Howard'?

[FredClogs]

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

Well it's an allowance given specifically to cover expenses, we can probably all agree the system is ambiguous, I've had jobs where when I traveled I'd get an unreceipted daily allowance and I was happy to trouser what I didn't spend "on tour" infact sometimes I'd eat in Mcdonalds and save teh extra so I could treat the Missus when I got home, I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage, but anyway I digress Farage is presumably saying he has to take the full amount? and that he couldn't have averaged out his spending and returned what he hadn't spent.

Did you do that? Did you return your own excessive allowances 'Mr Howard'?

No I did not, as I said I was happy to trouser the difference, but this was a private company and I have never claimed to be an upstanding pillar of society

[Einion Yrth]

FredClogs said:

No I did not, as I said I was happy to trouser the difference, but this was a private company and I have never claimed to be an upstanding pillar of society

How would stealing from a private company be better than stealing from the taxpayer you grubby little non-entity?

[FredClogs]

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

Well it's an allowance given specifically to cover expenses, we can probably all agree the system is ambiguous, I've had jobs where when I traveled I'd get an unreceipted daily allowance and I was happy to trouser what I didn't spend "on tour" infact sometimes I'd eat in Mcdonalds and save teh extra so I could treat the Missus when I got home, I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage, but anyway I digress Farage is presumably saying he has to take the full amount? and that he couldn't have averaged out his spending and returned what he hadn't spent.

Did you do that? Did you return your own excessive allowances 'Mr Howard'?

No I did not, as I said I was happy to trouser the difference, but this was a private company and I have never claimed to be an upstanding pillar of society

Did you declare the excess to HMRC?

I was PAYE at the time so it went through the payroll I assume, it was many years ago, back in the days when even lowly engineers would be trusted and treated like men when they had to spend weeks in st hole chinese factories, now it seem you have to be a senior political figure to be given an allowance, I like the way this has become about me though, more of these threads should be about me...

[Esseesse]

FredClogs said:

I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage...

Smear alert. Anything else you post loses much of it's credibility because of nonsense like this. Please show how Farage has abused his allowance/expenses (if only in the eyes of the public) for personal gain. Has he paid his mortgage or re-carpeted his house? Maybe he has a posh office is about as far as any claims go as far as I can tell, and that is precisely the sort of thing that an MEP's allowances are for, as far as I can tell.

[FredClogs]

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

Well it's an allowance given specifically to cover expenses, we can probably all agree the system is ambiguous, I've had jobs where when I traveled I'd get an unreceipted daily allowance and I was happy to trouser what I didn't spend "on tour" infact sometimes I'd eat in Mcdonalds and save teh extra so I could treat the Missus when I got home, I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage, but anyway I digress Farage is presumably saying he has to take the full amount? and that he couldn't have averaged out his spending and returned what he hadn't spent.

Did you do that? Did you return your own excessive allowances 'Mr Howard'?

No I did not, as I said I was happy to trouser the difference, but this was a private company and I have never claimed to be an upstanding pillar of society

Did you declare the excess to HMRC?

I was PAYE at the time so it went through the payroll I assume, it was many years ago, back in the days when even lowly engineers would be trusted and treated like men when they had to spend weeks in st hole chinese factories, now it seem you have to be a senior political figure to be given an allowance, I like the way this has become about me though, more of these threads should be about me...

Not so My guys get allowances when working overseas (out of area allowances) so its not just the great and the good, perhaps you need a new employer?

I've been contracting 10 years now, I'm unemployable at this stage... A law unto myself, I suspect like most politicians consider themselves to be, but they are public servants - are they not?

[Esseesse]

Guam said:

Yes, yes they are, however I don't see where the evidence of NF wrongdoing is in regard to the Times (busted) allegations, show me some real evidence I will be the first to scream for his head.

Agree. Show some actual evidence and I will never ever vote for him or his party.

[FredClogs]

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

Guam said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

Timsta said:

FredClogs said:

It's just that the BBC seem to be suggesting that is indeed what has happened...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27030660

I know they're probably part of the UKIP bashing Bildebergean, bohemian grove, commie, pinko liberal, art loving lefties, who sole aim in life is to stifle democratic debate but if he's claiming EU parliamentary expenses and using them to fund something other than EU parliamentary business and he hasn't broken any rules then why get so defensive?

And this is where it falls down. I can categorically state that he doesn't claim any EU parliamentary expenses. Does no-one read anymore?

Well it's an allowance given specifically to cover expenses, we can probably all agree the system is ambiguous, I've had jobs where when I traveled I'd get an unreceipted daily allowance and I was happy to trouser what I didn't spend "on tour" infact sometimes I'd eat in Mcdonalds and save teh extra so I could treat the Missus when I got home, I did only have one missus so in that respect I was living cheaper than Farage, but anyway I digress Farage is presumably saying he has to take the full amount? and that he couldn't have averaged out his spending and returned what he hadn't spent.

Did you do that? Did you return your own excessive allowances 'Mr Howard'?

No I did not, as I said I was happy to trouser the difference, but this was a private company and I have never claimed to be an upstanding pillar of society

Did you declare the excess to HMRC?

I was PAYE at the time so it went through the payroll I assume, it was many years ago, back in the days when even lowly engineers would be trusted and treated like men when they had to spend weeks in st hole chinese factories, now it seem you have to be a senior political figure to be given an allowance, I like the way this has become about me though, more of these threads should be about me...

Not so My guys get allowances when working overseas (out of area allowances) so its not just the great and the good, perhaps you need a new employer?

I've been contracting 10 years now, I'm unemployable at this stage... A law unto myself, I suspect like most politicians consider themselves to be, but they are public servants - are they not?

Yes, yes they are, however I don't see where the evidence of NF wrongdoing is in regard to the Times (busted) allegations, show me some real evidence I will be the first to scream for his head.

Yes but Mrs Millar didn't do anything wrong other than have a bad attitude to the inquiry, that's all she was asked to apologise for. Nigel Farage has been taking tax payers money supposedly meant for his expenses and spending them elsewhere (because UKIP HQ covered his constituency office). he could of course redeem himself by publishing his expense account as he keeps saying he is happy to do.

[WinstonWolf]

FredClogs said:

Yes but Mrs Millar didn't do anything wrong other than have a bad attitude to the inquiry, that's all she was asked to apologise for. Nigel Farage has been taking tax payers money supposedly meant for his expenses and spending them elsewhere (because UKIP HQ covered his constituency office). he could of course redeem himself by publishing his expense account as he keeps saying he is happy to do.

No, she did nothing other than steal from all of us...

[don4l]

FredClogs said:

Feck me this is getting a bit Paxmanesque, I have no desire to come across that way but this letter does not answer my question, do you really think it is? Mr Howard, I shall ask you again, did he or did he not claim for the running of that office from both the EU expenses system and UKIP head office?

Don't worry, you are not coming across a bit Paxmanesque.

Paxman listens to, and makes an effort to understand the answers.

Farage did not, and could not claim any EU expenses for the running of his office.

MEP's are not allowed to claim these expenses because they are given an allowance.

Why do you find this so difficult to understand?

[Wombat3]

Guam said:

Wombat3 said:

Jinx said:

Wombat3 said:

How does that apply to the Westminster troughers then? (or doesn't it?)

Nigel isn't an MP. Westminster troughers had one golden rule - do not claim for anything that would bring the House into disrepute. Failed that one didn't they?
I'm not sure it is possible to bring the EU into any further disrepute (how is that audit going again? ) and given as the MEPs do not have to even admit to what the money is being spent on there is not an obvious parallel.
Admittedly I would have liked a little more involvement by the UKIP MEPs - maybe setting a good example and help corrupt the other MEPs into a dissolve the EU way of thinking - but I'm ever the optimist......

Whoosh.

Try again. How is it that an MEP troughing or mis-using his "allowances" is any different to what happened in Westminster (specifically given that said MEP has designs on being an MP). ?

Its a mis-use of public money.

The fact that MEPs don't have to account for money they are given arguably makes it worse if its abused. There is a "trust" system (and obviously it doesn't work across the board).

The point was simply being made that Farage (or St Nigel as perhaps we should address him since he seems to be so revered hereabouts) is evidently no more above abusing the system (whatever it may be) than are others of his ilk both in Westminster and the EU.

If it has occurred and it has breached any rules then you and I will finally have something to agree on, however if it turns out to be without foundation I would stick a large book down your trousers for the sound kicking you will likely get

Breaching rules is one thing (and I'd be very surprised if he has).

However, breaching the clear spirit of the purpose of allowances seems hardly dis-similar from someone who preaches at the rest of us about how "corrupt the political class is"

....if indeed it can be shown that this is what he has done.

[irocfan]

and in the interests of being totally unbiased as the news should be...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/15/nigel-f...




I must admit that I'm quite stunned at how quickly 'the establishment' is moving to protect its collective arses... while NF was an irritant he's been feted as some sort of freak-show (and to be fair possibly he is) now all of a sudden The Powers That Be can see a credible threat (however small) and the wheels start turning