UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
Benbay001 said:
Lets not forget, its a European election.
As far as i can see, every EU country has an anti EU right wing party, and they all seem to be lined up to do rather well next month.
Maybe with a right wing EU parl we will get the change in Europe that we are after without having to leave? I doubt it.
Even with every MEP right of centre, nothing could change. As far as i can see, every EU country has an anti EU right wing party, and they all seem to be lined up to do rather well next month.
Maybe with a right wing EU parl we will get the change in Europe that we are after without having to leave? I doubt it.
They could vote down new legislation, but nothing could be repealed and nothing new that was worthwhile added...
Guam said:
longblackcoat said:
turbobloke said:
Trick question? Are UKIP policies for 2015 not being drawn up and independently costed at the mo?
If they are it's news to me. Genuinely, it's the first I've heard of that.Guam said:
turbobloke said:
Guam said:
longblackcoat said:
turbobloke said:
Trick question? Are UKIP policies for 2015 not being drawn up and independently costed at the mo?
If they are it's news to me. Genuinely, it's the first I've heard of that.So if they really do produce a proper, costed manifesto I'll be keen to see it. Obviously there'll be a huge number of variables (and I accept that all parties have this sort of variability in their sums) but if it even vaguely stacks up it'll be a big step forward.
longblackcoat said:
I have to say that I'm amazed if this is how it will actually transpire, but I live in hope. The reason I keep going on (and on) about policy is because for better or worse, the Labour/Conservative/LibDems have a track record and you can therefore have a very good idea of how they'd implement policies.
And that is why I'll be voting UKIP.Jinx said:
longblackcoat said:
I have to say that I'm amazed if this is how it will actually transpire, but I live in hope. The reason I keep going on (and on) about policy is because for better or worse, the Labour/Conservative/LibDems have a track record and you can therefore have a very good idea of how they'd implement policies.
And that is why I'll be voting UKIP.Putting aside the fact that on a personal level I'd never vote UKIP - I can't stand Farage and oppose pretty much everything he stands for - even if I liked the message, I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything. And my pragmatism simply would not let me vote for a party I thought had an ideological standpoint but no clue as to how they'd deliver that on a practical basis.
So if they produce a decent manifesto, and let people work through the backing to their policies, that has to be a good thing for democracy. Challenge to the established parties forces them to raise there game, which I suspect we all want.
longblackcoat said:
Sure, but that's precisely why I wouldn't - I have no faith that their policies (the ones I've seen to date) hang together. They don't have a negative track record, agreed, but then they have nothing to recommend them either, at least from a practical perspective.
So by that logic you would only ever vote for one of the three? longblackcoat said:
Jinx said:
longblackcoat said:
I have to say that I'm amazed if this is how it will actually transpire, but I live in hope. The reason I keep going on (and on) about policy is because for better or worse, the Labour/Conservative/LibDems have a track record and you can therefore have a very good idea of how they'd implement policies.
And that is why I'll be voting UKIP.Putting aside the fact that on a personal level I'd never vote UKIP - I can't stand Farage and oppose pretty much everything he stands for - even if I liked the message, I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything. And my pragmatism simply would not let me vote for a party I thought had an ideological standpoint but no clue as to how they'd deliver that on a practical basis.
So if they produce a decent manifesto, and let people work through the backing to their policies, that has to be a good thing for democracy. Challenge to the established parties forces them to raise there game, which I suspect we all want.
longblackcoat said:
Sure, but that's precisely why I wouldn't - I have no faith that their policies (the ones I've seen to date) hang together. They don't have a negative track record, agreed, but then they have nothing to recommend them either, at least from a practical perspective.
Putting aside the fact that on a personal level I'd never vote UKIP - I can't stand Farage and oppose pretty much everything he stands for - even if I liked the message, I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything. And my pragmatism simply would not let me vote for a party I thought had an ideological standpoint but no clue as to how they'd deliver that on a practical basis.
So if they produce a decent manifesto, and let people work through the backing to their policies, that has to be a good thing for democracy. Challenge to the established parties forces them to raise there game, which I suspect we all want.
Labour have a track record of over spending and then the conservatives come back in and sort out their mess. This has been pretty much the cycle in British politics. The cycle needs breaking and none of the main parties are capable - or even aware of the problems.Putting aside the fact that on a personal level I'd never vote UKIP - I can't stand Farage and oppose pretty much everything he stands for - even if I liked the message, I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything. And my pragmatism simply would not let me vote for a party I thought had an ideological standpoint but no clue as to how they'd deliver that on a practical basis.
So if they produce a decent manifesto, and let people work through the backing to their policies, that has to be a good thing for democracy. Challenge to the established parties forces them to raise there game, which I suspect we all want.
The Government don't run the country - the civil service does. The government is there to introduce legislation that the civil service carries out. If UKIP get in and are out of their depth then the most likely thing to happen is no new legislation (much like over the long summer break) gets raised.
This is a good thing as the laws of unintended consequences (that Labour and to some extent the libcon appear to have no ability to foresee) tend to make any changes into the total cock up that Labour uncannily create (possibly due to the "good intentions" and their legislative satnav being stuck on a single route) .
The ones that don't know what they are doing are to be less feared then those that only think they do.
Timsta said:
longblackcoat said:
Sure, but that's precisely why I wouldn't - I have no faith that their policies (the ones I've seen to date) hang together. They don't have a negative track record, agreed, but then they have nothing to recommend them either, at least from a practical perspective.
So by that logic you would only ever vote for one of the three? Einion Yrth said:
longblackcoat said:
I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything.
Don't you vote Labour? 
But they're less terrible, in my eyes, than the other choices.
longblackcoat said:
Einion Yrth said:
longblackcoat said:
I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything.
Don't you vote Labour? But they're less terrible, in my eyes, than the other choices.
Einion Yrth said:
longblackcoat said:
Einion Yrth said:
longblackcoat said:
I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they were going to pay for everything.
Don't you vote Labour? But they're less terrible, in my eyes, than the other choices.
As I see it UKIP will do very well in the European elections ,mainly as a protest vote,that is fairly obvious.
In the general election many who voted UKIP will vote Tory / Labour, as most voters are conservative/tribal by nature and UKIP are still perceived as an unknown quantity.
If the economy continues to improve then the Tory's will edge it as long as Cameron behaves himself and listens to popular concern regarding emigration and Europe.
Labour are shackled by their previous failings with the economy and the fact that Miiliband lacks gravitas and nobody likes Balls.
In the general election many who voted UKIP will vote Tory / Labour, as most voters are conservative/tribal by nature and UKIP are still perceived as an unknown quantity.
If the economy continues to improve then the Tory's will edge it as long as Cameron behaves himself and listens to popular concern regarding emigration and Europe.
Labour are shackled by their previous failings with the economy and the fact that Miiliband lacks gravitas and nobody likes Balls.
When people on these threads bring "costed policies" I always wonder what they want?
The previous parties have/had costed policies, and yet our national debt has still increased at an horrendous rateto the tune of £1.4tr. If those "costed policies" were worth the paper they were written on, we would not be in anywhere near as much debt as we are now!
So maybe we should drop the "costed policies" as an excuse, it's as pointless as the costed policies of the big 2!
The previous parties have/had costed policies, and yet our national debt has still increased at an horrendous rateto the tune of £1.4tr. If those "costed policies" were worth the paper they were written on, we would not be in anywhere near as much debt as we are now!
So maybe we should drop the "costed policies" as an excuse, it's as pointless as the costed policies of the big 2!
zygalski said:
Ash, I think the point is you can promise what you like if you have no chance of power. You have to be able to test what is in a manifesto, even if it later turns out to be BS. If the promises made in the manifesto don't add up, then that is another thing entirely.
True, but how many parties actually live by their manifesto when they get into power? Deals are done left, right and centre to ensure that a manifesto is pointless after election day.I'm not saying it's right, far from it. But it's the way I see it.
On the flip side though, I do believe with the increase of popularity of UKIP and therefore the increase in media interest and media digging the UKIPs next manifresto will be costed accurately. I don't think they have a choice, even though they won't get in to power, as the media and other parties will disect it to the letter (and pound).
PS, saw your Astra in the VX piccies thread, looks mint!
DAVEVO9 said:
Not quite sure which bit of this short speech that the rabid anti UKIP brigade could bark about?Even putting content aside, he is not hiding anything. Either we are seeing an actor worthy of an Oscar or someone with absolutely nothing whatsoever to hide.
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