UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
otolith said:
You need another point? They will do it again, too. It's the way the game is played.
I do need another point. I'm absolutely certain that they will. That doesn't make it right though, and it doesn't prevent me from thinking that all of them are equally sad for using them. Someone earlier posted that positive campaigns are more effective. I would imagine that to be the case.
ChemicalChaos said:
A liberal "friend" of mine just shared this on Facebook:
No idea how true it is, but even if it is - it shows how desperate the anti-kippers have become to find any old dirt they can use against UKIP
Any old dirt? Seriously? The EU proposes further crackdowns on the illegal trade in ivory (that stuff that's annoyingly attached to living elephants) and Ukip MEPs vote against it purely because they have to vote against anything the EU proposes. It would be funny if it wasn't so disgusting.No idea how true it is, but even if it is - it shows how desperate the anti-kippers have become to find any old dirt they can use against UKIP
santona1937 said:
my main point being that with similar policies to UKIP the FN took Beziers with 45 % of the vote, and Perpignan with around 40%.
Is Perpignan still an armpit? I spent a few hours there twenty-odd years ago when I was 18. A drunk offered to put me and my friend up for the night. He was very emphatic that he wasn't gay and that the woman on the balcony (who clearly didn't know him from Adam) was his wife. We decided to get back on the train and head for St Raphael.santona1937 said:
The PS ( left socialists) has been practically wiped out as a political force, and the FN has picked up votes upon which for many years the left could count , primarily amongst the blue collar workers.
AS this is a thread about the future of UKIP it is quite possible that UKIP could end up the 3rd political party, and the Lib Dems fade away.
Possibly. Is the FN not economically left of centre, though? AS this is a thread about the future of UKIP it is quite possible that UKIP could end up the 3rd political party, and the Lib Dems fade away.
paulrockliffe said:
I don't know anything about either that issue or the equal pay thing. But a few thoughts spring to mind; it's already illegal to pay women less than men. It's already illegal to buy and sell ivory. There are no wild elephants in the EU.
Exactly!Plus even if those Kipper MEPs had voted 'for', do you think it would have made one jot of difference?
Of course not, because as pointed out, it's already illegal.
Pointless debate, pointless vote, pointless EU, the point being made by UKIP.
dandarez said:
paulrockliffe said:
I don't know anything about either that issue or the equal pay thing. But a few thoughts spring to mind; it's already illegal to pay women less than men. It's already illegal to buy and sell ivory. There are no wild elephants in the EU.
Exactly!Plus even if those Kipper MEPs had voted 'for', do you think it would have made one jot of difference?
Of course not, because as pointed out, it's already illegal.
Pointless debate, pointless vote, pointless EU, the point being made by UKIP.
There must be *some* rationale behind their thinking, surely?
eharding said:
dandarez said:
paulrockliffe said:
I don't know anything about either that issue or the equal pay thing. But a few thoughts spring to mind; it's already illegal to pay women less than men. It's already illegal to buy and sell ivory. There are no wild elephants in the EU.
Exactly!Plus even if those Kipper MEPs had voted 'for', do you think it would have made one jot of difference?
Of course not, because as pointed out, it's already illegal.
Pointless debate, pointless vote, pointless EU, the point being made by UKIP.
There must be *some* rationale behind their thinking, surely?
Tell me this. WHY is this being brought up now?
Do you know when this vote took place?
I'll tell you. OVER THREE MONTHS AGO - 16th January to be precise.
It was known then that 6 Kippers voted against, but nobody brought it up.
Now why do you think it is being brought up now?
They're digging the dirt 'cos they're all sh*it scared of UKIP.
The train is rolling.
Nobody can stop it.
ChemicalChaos said:
A liberal "friend" of mine just shared this on Facebook:
No idea how true it is, but even if it is - it shows how desperate the anti-kippers have become to find any old dirt they can use against UKIP
Hmmm, something makes me suspect the vote was actually on something else, but with one of the consequences was the ivory trade. No idea how true it is, but even if it is - it shows how desperate the anti-kippers have become to find any old dirt they can use against UKIP
I suspect the creator of that poster wasn't inclined to share what the real vote was for but has cherry-picked and emotive consequence of it to fit. Will be interesting to see what that vote was for.
league67 said:
FiF said:
No he didn't. If you'd been there you'd know that he didn't.
On your way. Next
Ah the beauty of internet and video. I didn't need to be there. On your way. Next
Your opinion is obviously correct.
Delusion of grandeur is always entertaining. Lightweight.
eharding said:
dandarez said:
The train is rolling.
Nobody can stop it.
Nobody can stop it.
Really?...really?
Where exactly do you think Tank Engine Nigel and a few carriages full of 'kippers have as a final destination in the grand scheme of things?
It can all still come off the rails. European elections are one thing. Westminster elections are quite another and the UK electoral system is biased against emergent parties.
In the past support for UKIP at whatever level has been evenly spread and has not been high enough in one place to make that breakthrough.
They have also allowed party differences to affect their vote. For example there was the situation in 2010 where after a strong EU result Lord Pearson wanted to entertain a pact whereby UKIP would not contest seats where strongly placed Eurosceptic Tory MPs were standing. There was no chance of a reciprocal arrangement from the Tories as UKIP weren't in such a position. A significant faction of the party didn't want a pact and support / activism suffered.
This time it appears as if they are targeting specific areas of the country and specific areas of the electorate. But the siren calls of a pact beckon, this time from such as Lord Tebbit. We will see if that has any legs.
It's clear that they are going to split the Tory vote. It's also clear that they are going to split the Labour vote, research clearly shows that. Labour hadn't quite realised it but they will soon get the full message I think.
Lib Dems vote is an interesting one. They're traditionally positioned as the protest vote for the centre left. The place to go if you are pissed off with Labour but can't bring yourself to vote Tory and put themselves as a party untainted by the spectre of establishment and power of office. Well they screwed that stance with 5 years in office in the coalition. Where will their vote go? Pass.
In summary to put it in the distasteful manner of hardy boy where does Tank Engine Nigel and more than a few carriages of 'kipperst intend to go. I think the platform announcements are intimating that one possible destination is the Lib Dem place of 3rd party and the place for protest votes, but there are quite a few unset points which may very well lead to the buffers in 2015.
There is still a strong possibility that any success in May is once again not turned into concrete support in 2015 as it's again obvious from the research that UKIP support has been historically more transitory. On the other hand history may be a bad guide this time.
What have i been banging on about since volume one?
Windturbines!
What have i been told since volume one
Kippers delivering to you the tory party the tory voters actually want
Windturbines!
What have i been told since volume one
tory party faithful said:
its a wasted voted, you can't change anything, they'll never have an MP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27137184BBC said:
The Conservatives have said they will not subsidise new onshore wind farms if they win the 2015 general election.
Kippers delivering to you the tory party the tory voters actually want
What's their position on offshore?
I'm confused as seem to recall someone had already called a cease to offshore as not worthwhile economically. Yes I know we know already that disturbines are a wasted effort but just trying to put in perspective.
Clearly stealing UKIP positioning on things is a threat to long term UKIP.
I'm confused as seem to recall someone had already called a cease to offshore as not worthwhile economically. Yes I know we know already that disturbines are a wasted effort but just trying to put in perspective.
Clearly stealing UKIP positioning on things is a threat to long term UKIP.
otolith said:
santona1937 said:
my main point being that with similar policies to UKIP the FN took Beziers with 45 % of the vote, and Perpignan with around 40%.
Is Perpignan still an armpit? I spent a few hours there twenty-odd years ago when I was 18. A drunk offered to put me and my friend up for the night. He was very emphatic that he wasn't gay and that the woman on the balcony (who clearly didn't know him from Adam) was his wife. We decided to get back on the train and head for St Raphael.Perpignan has changed a lot, it still not a tourist destination though
. It has become the transport and commercial hub of Aude.santona1937 said:
The PS ( left socialists) has been practically wiped out as a political force, and the FN has picked up votes upon which for many years the left could count , primarily amongst the blue collar workers.
AS this is a thread about the future of UKIP it is quite possible that UKIP could end up the 3rd political party, and the Lib Dems fade away.
Possibly. Is the FN not economically left of centre, though? AS this is a thread about the future of UKIP it is quite possible that UKIP could end up the 3rd political party, and the Lib Dems fade away.
The Area around us which is not traditionally FN voting has been more and more voting FN. Immigration is a big issue; not because immigrants are taking jobs, because the French tend not to do that if they can help it (France has always been a very homogeneous place) but because the locals here feel that immigrants are changing the way of life, and they do not like it- those locals include the North African immigrants who have been here a very long time.
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