UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
10 Pence Short said:
einsign said:
Can you please show us a link to the other threads or websites that are attacking or scrutinising the Labour party and its candidates in the same way?
Take a look at any number of newspapers and magazines. Google for any of the many blogs dedicated to scrutiny and/or ridicule any one or all of the political parties.UKIP supports may find the new found scrutiny a shock, but it should be anything but. If UKIP continue to court the press, they will in time find themselves becoming a facsimile of the main parties with respect to becoming staid.
And instead of trying to brush it under the carpet he was axed immediately
Unlike the constant cover ups and
I didn't realise it was illegal tosh of the current crop of liars, I'm sure there will be plenty more to come yet it's just the start, like I have said before I'm giving the newbies my support they would need to have at least 25,000 media catastrophes before there anywhere near on par with the current crop and there failings.
Unlike the constant cover ups and
I didn't realise it was illegal tosh of the current crop of liars, I'm sure there will be plenty more to come yet it's just the start, like I have said before I'm giving the newbies my support they would need to have at least 25,000 media catastrophes before there anywhere near on par with the current crop and there failings.
irocfan said:
Indeed there are but that's not really the issue, the issue is how close he is (was) to the centre of the party. Read the comment - one of only 5 to take part in an election broadcast
t made too many tweets."Timsta said:
Agreed. It's quite refreshing seeing a party leader immediately dropping an idiot instead of standing by them.
It's not like this idiot could be backed in any way whatsoever really.Really bad publicity for UKiP, poster boy of the party comes out as ultra right wing nut job. That he didn't even try to hide it makes me wonder whether he actually thought his views were representative of the wider UKip membership.
NF did well with his immediate response but there's no denying this is ammunition for the others.
Voting re elephants.
One could argue that MEPs were simply members of the Society for protection of Ants. Elephants are already protected enough, and they are killing poor mercilessly. Less elephants, less dead ants.
or
'Oh it's another EU policy that is taking away our right to decide what to do with tusks.'
"When you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
One could argue that MEPs were simply members of the Society for protection of Ants. Elephants are already protected enough, and they are killing poor mercilessly. Less elephants, less dead ants.
or
'Oh it's another EU policy that is taking away our right to decide what to do with tusks.'
"When you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
apologies to many, but the general take on UKIP is as follows:
aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
Mark Benson said:
As I understand it, the problem is this:
The resolution states;
"11. Calls on the Member States to introduce moratoria on all commercial imports, exports and domestic sales and purchases of tusks and raw and worked ivory products until wild elephant populations are no longer threatened by poaching;
12. Calls on the Member States to join other CITES Parties in sending out a clear signal against wildlife trafficking and demand for illegal wildlife products by destroying their stockpiles of illegal ivory;"
In conservation circles, there is some concern that stopping the legal trade in existing stocks of ivory and destroying existing stockpiles reduces the amount of ivory in circulation and makes any new ivory to come onto the market more valuable.
There is a concern that driving the trade in ivory underground puts in further into the hands of criminals and makes it even harder to regulate.
So on the face of it, some well intentioned people have proposed a course of action that could in fact make the poaching situation worse as the rewards for doing so become ever greater. Not sure I'd vote for that unless I could be sure it wasn't the case.
I'm sure that you have access to some super secret 'conservation circles'. You might want to inform RSPCA as they are oblivious to those concernsThe resolution states;
"11. Calls on the Member States to introduce moratoria on all commercial imports, exports and domestic sales and purchases of tusks and raw and worked ivory products until wild elephant populations are no longer threatened by poaching;
12. Calls on the Member States to join other CITES Parties in sending out a clear signal against wildlife trafficking and demand for illegal wildlife products by destroying their stockpiles of illegal ivory;"
In conservation circles, there is some concern that stopping the legal trade in existing stocks of ivory and destroying existing stockpiles reduces the amount of ivory in circulation and makes any new ivory to come onto the market more valuable.
There is a concern that driving the trade in ivory underground puts in further into the hands of criminals and makes it even harder to regulate.
So on the face of it, some well intentioned people have proposed a course of action that could in fact make the poaching situation worse as the rewards for doing so become ever greater. Not sure I'd vote for that unless I could be sure it wasn't the case.
" Two countries are fuelling the crisis if their proposals to sell 110 tonnes of ivory are approved by the 175 countries of CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. "
https://de-de.facebook.com/RSPCA/posts/33605013684...
Or more likely, someone hacked into RSPCA fb account, some enemy of UKIP, who predicted how UKIP will vote, and posted that purely to make MEPs looking like plonkers.
Also, your other post 'School of thought' one. Any links to that or are they super secret only available to chosen few?
I'm quite certain that you can provide those links, as I'm sure that you'd never make that up.
Efbe said:
apologies to many, but the general take on UKIP is as follows:
aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
That is all well and good, but what is your take on elephants?aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
Efbe said:
apologies to many, but the general take on UKIP is as follows:
aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
Your problem is that you think it is only on PH that UKIP have a following, membership numbers are going up every month, this is people who are prepared to put their hands in their pockets and pay good money to be a part of UKIP.aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
Not everybody lives in an area that is Conservative, I live in a labour area, the north east, the votes lost in my area will be from the labour candidate, you talk of lost votes from the conservative party but for me it shows how all the major parties have lost touch with normal people, most of which fill their candidates from career politicians, UKIP stand out in a sea of sameness, slightly anti establishment and not following the normal policies of pro EU,pro green energy .
PRTVR said:
Efbe said:
apologies to many, but the general take on UKIP is as follows:
aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
Your problem is that you think it is only on PH that UKIP have a following, membership numbers are going up every month, this is people who are prepared to put their hands in their pockets and pay good money to be a part of UKIP.aside from PH, UKIP is a fringe party like the LDs will be for the next election.
essentially a right wing sect of the conservatives all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
I have yet to grasp the PH fascination with UKIP, am quite unsold by the manifesto, would all this effort just to leave the EU not be better aimed at the conservative MPs?
Not everybody lives in an area that is Conservative, I live in a labour area, the north east, the votes lost in my area will be from the labour candidate, you talk of lost votes from the conservative party but for me it shows how all the major parties have lost touch with normal people, most of which fill their candidates from career politicians, UKIP stand out in a sea of sameness, slightly anti establishment and not following the normal policies of pro EU,pro green energy .
Apologies for going over the same ground but research, proper independent academic research, has shown that UKIP does not comprise greyhaired ex Tories who have been driven away by Cameron.
Yes they are there but they are also as the above poster points out taking significant votes from Labour. Perhaps not all over the nation but in areas that should be worrying to Labour. Not sure to what extent Labour have twigged this yet.
They are also gaining support from a group that we have tagged the 'left behind.' This group had turned their backs on politics as they felt the Westminster metro career politicians no longer spoke for them so they refused to vote or voted for various protest parties.
Some of that left behind group went to BNP and even though they found the overt racism of that party completely distasteful felt that it was a safe protest vote for a party that represented some of their views even if they abhorred the extremes.
It's not just ph who find this party interesting it's appeal is much wider if you actually take the trouble to look. Why is it interesting even if you don't agree with the party aims.
Well it's the first completely new national party to make significant chance of a breakthrough in generations. Labour party was the last one.
Secondly the traditional protest party has been the LibDems who also positioned themselves as the party untainted by power and the Establishment.
Well with 5 years in power the Coalition and typical Establishment scandals emerging all the time, including the hideous Cyril Smith horror show, they are screwed. End of. I have put a tenner, a real live ten pound note with the bookies that Clegg will lose Sheffield Hallam seat.
So where will their votes go? Pass. Probably not Ukip but what is clear is that the potential for a complete change in the Uk political map exists. Maybe that will happen maybe it won't but none of us will see such a fascinating battle again in our lifetimes.
Efbe said:
all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
Thats not entirely true. A number of surveys have shown that the majority voters for UKIP have come from a Labour background.There was a video interview on the internet done by the Telegraph newspaper whereby Farage was questioned about taking votes from various other parties. He answered that, surprisingly, many of the surveyed UKIP future voters historically voted Labour.
AA999 said:
Efbe said:
all it can ever do is garner votes away from the conservatives, handing the election to labour.
Thats not entirely true. A number of surveys have shown that the majority voters for UKIP have come from a Labour background.There was a video interview on the internet done by the Telegraph newspaper whereby Farage was questioned about taking votes from various other parties. He answered that, surprisingly, many of the surveyed UKIP future voters historically voted Labour.
UKIP is taking SIX times as many votes from the Tories as it is from Labour (Populus/FT 16,424 sample Mar 2014 aggregate)
Mike Smithson said:
(respected polling expert) It is true that UKIP gets a lot of support from the C1,C2 and D demographic groups but not, if you analyse the data, from that many who voted Labour in 2010.
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